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HOW TO GET A REFUND
First, find out when you backed the project, then figure out which ToS you are subject to.
1) Request a refund. You’re going to get a response like this one. They may also ask you if something you read online, influenced your decision to get a refund. Ignore it. You don’t need a reason to ask for a refund, other than those listed below.
2) File a chargeback with your bank, PayPal etc. citing the following. Keep it simple.
“I backed this crowd-funded project on ________ and they promised to deliver the project on Nov 2014. Thus far 1) they have not delivered the product as promised, and they keep missing promised dates 2) since then they have cut some of the features that made me back the project, thus diminishing my investment 3) they are using the tech demo they released in Dec 2015 as an excuse to deny refunds, claiming that it is a substantial part of the delivery when it isn’t 4) over 90% of the features promised have yet to be delivered as of today’s date 5) also, there are numerous reports all over the Internet that this is looking like a scam and that they cannot deliver the product as promised”
WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS
- File a complaint with the CA Dept of Consumer and Business Affairs
- File a complaint with the FTC
- File a complaint with your State Attorney General’s office
- File a complaint with your State BBB
Additional resources: Chargeback and refunds
HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE CA DCBA
File a complaint. In the event that they keep rejecting your refund, you can contact the investigator directly via email ([email protected]) or phone (312-881-7094). This is the State where the head office is located; so it is critical that you report them to this agency.
HOW TO REPORT A PRODUCT TO THE FTC
First, read the FTC bulletin, Getting Your Money Back
If you feel that you have been misled when you backed the Star Citizen project after Oct, 2012, and you want a chance to get your money back, the FTC has setup a special department that deals with crowd-funding complaints. You can fill out this form. Then select “Internet services, online shopping, or computers” then “Online shopping”. You can read more about that over here.
Cloud Imperium, LLC
12322 Exposition Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90064
http://robertsspaceindustries.com
[email protected]
Tel: 310-275-1300All Robert Space Industries / Cloud Imperium Games offices.
You can also use this as your summary. Edit as-needed:
“Cloud Imperium Games has collected in excess of $XXX million in crowd-funding money by selling game related items of varying value from $10 all the way up to to $15,000.
The game was promised to be delivered in Nov of 2014. However, thus far, only about 10% of the content they promised and received money for, have been delivered. Also, they have since vastly increased the scope of the project from what was previously promised; and they have gone on the record admitting to this.
They also changed the original Terms Of Service which would have required them to provide full refunds and financial accounting for the project if they failed to deliver by the promised Nov 2014 date. This change extended the term from Dec 2015 to May 2016.
They continue to raise money for the project despite never having met a single promised milestone.
After previously removing some features promised and which most backers were in favor of when they backed the project, they continue to remove features from the project, just reducing the value of the project. As recently as January 2016, they removed a key module, Star Marine, which was heavily promoted from the start of the project in 2012.
Like a lot of other customers, when I requested a refund, they denied it. They claim that a recent 2.0 tech demo which they released in a buggy and incomplete fashion in Dec 2015 (exactly when the original accountability term in the ToS was to be in effect), constitutes a substantial release of the promised game. Given how much is missing from it, that claim is patently false and they are using it as an excuse to actively deny refunds. This despite the fact that they promised two games; Star Citizen and Squadron 42. And as of now, we haven’t received any part of the second game.
And in a typical fashion, Squadron 42, which was part of the project, has recently been split and now being sold separately to the general public.”
Note that even if you are not a backer of this project, make no mistake, you have every right to call into question anything you suspect is tantamount to consumer fraud of any kind. That’s why there are numerous resources online for specifically that purpose. And you don’t have to be a backer or whistle-blower to do it. The FTC goes after companies all the time. Here is an entire public listing of their efforts and remedies.
Direct from the FTC:
The Commission files a complaint when it has “reason to believe” that the law has been or is being violated and it appears to the Commission that a proceeding is in the public interest. Stipulated orders have the force of law when approved and signed by the District Court judge.
The Federal Trade Commission works for consumers to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices and to provide information to help spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint in English or Spanish, visit the FTC’s online Complaint Assistant or call 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357). The FTC enters complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to more than 2,000 civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad. The FTC’s website provides free information on a variety of consumer topics.
Also, the Consumer Legal Remedies Act (CLRA) is a California statute that seeks to protect consumers against unfair and deceptive business practices. It identifies various unlawful practices in the sale or lease of goods or services to a consumer, including:
- Misrepresenting the source, certification, origin, or quality of goods and services;
- Advertising goods or services with intent not to sell them as advertised;
- Representing that a transaction has or involves rights, remedies or obligations that it does not have or involve, or that are prohibited by law;
- Representing that the consumer will receive a rebate, discount or other economic benefit, if the earning of the benefit is contingent on an event occurring after the transaction; or
- Inserting an unconscionable provision in the contract.
HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT WITH YOUR STATE AG
Find out who your State AG is from this website; then contact them. If you live in one of the States (e.g. Washington State) where AGs have gone after shady crowd-funding schemes, then you’re in luck. These past months, we’ve contacted AGs in various States (based on people who reached out to us for help), and apprised them of the on-going Star Citizen situation. So hopefully you don’t have to spend too much time explaining it to them. Remember, the State and Feds take their time; so don’t be surprised if it takes awhile for them to do anything.
16-06-01 UPDATE: On June 1st 2016, two key conditions in the agreed upon ToS v1.2 were triggered.
- The first would be a refund for failure to deliver the promised product within 18 months of the promised date (Nov 2014 for those on Kickstarter, for any other backers, it would be from the day you backed the project and agreed to the ToS).
- The second, having failed to deliver the product, is financial accountability for how the money was spent.
Depending on what you are after, you have to decide what you want, and what remedies are available to you. Here are some suggestions:
- Request a refund – in full. Cite the two trigger sections of the ToS in your request as a reason for the request. Save all correspondences.
- If they refuse i) file a complaint with Kickstarter (you can also post here) if you backed through there; also read section 4 of their FAQ ii) file a complaint with your State’s BBB iii) file a complaint with your State Attorney General’s office iv) file a complaint with the FTC
- Depending on the amount, and the law in your State, you can file a case in small claims court. If you prevail, they are responsible for your court costs. There is a very good chance that they won’t appear.
- Contact an attorney, explain the circumstances to them. Given the amount of money involved, there are some (I know a few) who would take the matter on a contingency fee basis, depending on the amount you backed. Especially if they have a shot (which they most certainly do) at a class action suit. This shouldn’t be taken lightly, and there is no point in wasting time and money on attorneys if you backed only a small amount of money. But if you must, I recommend MorrisonLee. They are one of the best “gaming” attorneys around, with attorney contacts in various States. Email them; and tell them I sent you. They are already fully aware and apprised of the on-going Star Citizen saga.
These suggestions are for US based backers only. The EU has even more stringent rules for stuff like this, so check with your country’s authorities and explore all avenues.
If you don’t want a refund, then you don’t have to do anything. In which case, it’s better to consider the money lost because the game – as promised – can never be made. Basically, intentional or not, you’ve been scammed.
Good luck.
ps. If you get a response like this from their CS, disregard (but save it!) it.
UPDATE: Seth has denied those reports/rumors on Twitter.
“I left at the end of my probation, not fired, no interaction with chris. That head is the work of the IW char team, I take no credit“
Reports say croberts fired character artist Seth Nash with a snide comment regarding his work. Here is what payback looks like.
This is a thread that they keep deleting: SO do we get the financial accountability now? – Addendum
Not sure how long before this one gets deleted as well. I backed in 2012… Game EVER coming out…..?
Yeah, I have reached out to my AMD contacts to see if anyone knows about it; and if they have the PDF. Hopefully I will get some answers soon.
Yes. I reported about it around that time. Also, “Cloud Imperium has invested around £15 million in its UK business so far.“
A higher quality version of the Squadron42 killer from Activision.
Yeah, they are right. It is in my original post (item #9) in this thread. And I also Tweeted about it yesterday as well. It’s good that people are doing their own legal research into this new ToS nonsense.
You already know that you shouldn’t download the game launcher in the 2.4 patch update, as that’s the only place where you will agree to the new ToS.
Someone (married to an attorney), put up a video. You should watch it.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJK3sfZVIcM&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
