Star Citizen – Interstellar Pirates
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Hey Kris,
1) Just because you’re Swedish, doesn’t mean you know the facts. That would mean that me being American, know everything that goes on here.
The research into the Gizmondo farce is quite extensive and factual. Or I wouldn’t put it in a blog knowing that legal action looms in the air. You’re smarter than that. In fact, there are hundreds of accounts of what happened with that.
And it’s irrelevant whether or not it’s called “Uppsala” or “My Gang”. The fact is that it was a money laundering scheme for which a lot of people got busted and it resulted in a sudden catastrophic collapse and loss of investor (I got to communicate with two of them btw) money.
I deliberately didn’t delve too much into all the intricacies of that farce because that was NOT the point of the blog or that section. The point was to illustrate how these people have been involved in multiple studio & venture collapses over the years; regardless of HOW or WHY those collapses occurred.
2) My opinion remains. And it’s just not me saying it. I actually did a Google search before making those statements. You should try it.
And no, I never said that the entire community was toxic. That’s nonsense because that would include me, my friends, people I know etc. Read what I wrote.
3) That’s irrelevant. She chooses to use her maiden name. I use it for context since that’s the name that everyone is used to seeing because of the fact that they chose to keep their marriage hidden for so long. Even my wife uses her maiden name. Here in the US, not all women change their names when they get married. And they do it for various reasons. Some of which relate to careers, family heritage etc.
4) I’m not even going to get into that because I wouldn’t know where to begin. By your submission, something that DID happen, shouldn’t be written about because it just happened on some blog. Seriously?
5) Again, you’re arguing semantics. Chris Roberts is The Chairman of the Star Citizen project. He is the leader of all things. And that, by its very definition, makes him the leader of the community that his game curated. I mean seriously, you’re arguing about this?
6) That’s your problem, not mine. I know more than you and tend not to pick numbers out of a hat. Plus, the many reports to that also come from people who know more than you.
7) You’re missing the point. That has nothing to do with whether or not they are a private company. The point is that community leaders and people like you, are making up bullshit excuses for why the company should not show financials. All of the reasons are ludicrous. Which is why I used Frontier as an example of a small game publisher/developer – and competitor – that makes their financials public. Posting financials doesn’t give ANY enterprise an edge over another.
8) He is the CFO. It’s not on that site because they haven’t listed it. Pretty much how they haven’t filed their financials. All it takes is one phone call to find out. Pick up the phone.
9) Just because they are in the same office building doesn’t make their positions any less different. Are you suggesting that, Ben and Lando, being low-level employees, have the same clout, responsibilities, standing etc as Sandi? Are you serious right now?
10) I realize that English is not your primary language, but I’m not going to waste my time explaining to you what “uncovered” means. Ask someone else to do it. They DID uncover it. It was reported to them. They asked questions. Thus….forget it, this is a waste of my time.
11) Don’t care. That was not the point of that paragraph.
@Kristoffer S
First I wanted to well write long post and start a long argument with you, but reading into stuff like “Gizmondo”
(Google is my friend) I started to think.One thing that bugs me is why would Derek post on his blog knowing the following things. (this is my own logical thinking)
All his blogs where read by his lawyer if I remember correctly freedom of speech does not protect you from defamation.
So if his lawyers approved his blogs there is something really fishy going on, and no I am not saying they are criminals.
And yeah it still has to be proven in a court of law, not on the internet.Same thing applies to the Escapist article they also have to pass the article to a legal team that looks at in the same way.
Only thing I am a bit sad over is that Derek gave them a final warning…
In the famous words of “The Thing” Ben Grimm “it’s clobberin time”Thanks for taking the time to reply. Even though we don’t agree on everything 🙂
1 – Ofc I don’t know everything going on here, but I do know the history about the “Uppsala maffia” not being a real maffia and the way you pumped this blog post up on twitter indicated you wanted people to think it was. So just offering a Swede’s insight into it. But you’re absolutely right, even though they weren’t a real maffia, they did alot of illegal stuff and spent alot of time in jail for it. But that’s on them – afaik neither Chris nor Erin have spent jail time for that and I doubt two game devs asked hardened criminals to take the bullet for them.2 – Opinions are always opinions, you have yours I have mine 🙂
3 – What I meant is you used them both in this one blog posts. Pick one and stick with it, atleast within the same blog posts 🙂 (and it’s the same in Sweden, my wife didn’t want to change her last name at first but I won her over!)
4 – If you chose to write about it on your blog, fine. But sourcing a lame, pathetic third party site which had one purpose, it’s kind of reaching – in my opinion! (after all we’re talking about the actions of a backer abusing bad coding to spend more money than he should have been able to is hardly a Citizen Gate – if someone could share an e-mail where Ben tells Wulf “this is how you can brake the system and give us more money” than that would be a Citizen Gate!)
5 – I’m arguing because no court in the world would hold Chris responsible for what the backers do (unless he downright tells them, but afaik he’s never told anyone to go ahead and send death threats to anyone)! He might be held responsible for what his employees do, but hardly the backers. We all have a free will and free mind, if morons want to send you death threats it’s their actions and choice – not Chris.
6 – Yeap, you say you do and you may very well do, but it’s not a public fact. Yet.
7 – I don’t see how I miss the point? When I read that part about the blog again the point seems to be “Frontier is open about their finances, why aren’t CIG?” – which is answered by the fact that FDEV is publicly traded, they have to show their finances or they are braking the law, it’s not like they do it to be nice guys. CIG is privately owned so they don’t have to show that information so they chose to not to it. What point am I missing?
8 – One would think the “O” would mean he was listed as “officer” of the company. But I’m not arguing the fact as much as I found it funny that early in the blog post you wrote that he was “said to be CFO” and later in the same blog stated it as a fact.
9 – Yeah, that was kinda reaching for a funny point of contrast 🙂
10 – Sorry I put focus on the word “uncovered”, but it’s again an instance of you referencing claims without actual publically available proof as facts which I disagree with.
I’m faily sure, and Derek can correct me on this, that taking things through legal is merely a way of getting an approval that “we can’t be sued for this” rather than “everything here checks out as facts”, even though the only lawyers I’ve worked with have been corporate busines/merger/acquisition lawyers.
Which is why Derek never states as fact that Chris has actually done something illegal, only facts like “he knew these guys that were affiliated with these other really really bad people”.
Which makes the Escapist article more interesting because they actually did state that they had done illegal things, like racial discrimination. And had they printed that about “a regular joe” I don’t know if it had passed legal without more proof than an “unnamed source”, but since “the Roberts” are public figures the burden of proof went to them to prove that Escapist knew it was a false claim. And they pretty much promised the world they had done their due diligence on that.TL:DR – legal isn’t fact checking or entering it into the history books.
About Chris is not responsible for what his backers do…
I disagree with that although he can’t be held responsible in court sure.
But he should have the responsibility as head of his company to say to his community to dial it down, and be civil against a other person.By not saying anything he basically approves to what his community does, or he basically does not give a shit about.
Again that does not put him in a positive light.Precisely.
People forget that as a very vocal and public figure, living in a “sue happy” country, I have to be very careful with what I post, say etc. Even Free Speech can only take you so far.
e.g. with this Gizmondo thing. Were it false, not sourced etc, or if I were insinuating that these four were part of that money laundering scam, that’s a lawsuit right there. But the fact is that all of these people mentioned were part of Gizmondo, regardless of whether or not they were a part of any wrong-doing. That was the point of my bringing it up. That aside from the fact that it is a well known fact that most White Collar criminals never get caught; and there are innocent people accused of crimes, sitting in jails.
Also, I gave them a final chance because, well i) I do NOT want to see this project fail ii) lawsuits are NOT fun iii) since this month is the expiration of the TOS, it is only fair to see if they are now willing to comply with such reasonable and fair requests.
Hence my comment it still has to be proven in court 😉
The Escapist is not preparing to go to court.
So they can “claim” what they want but have to retract it if it’s false or untrue.
And “unknown source”sounds to me the person is not willing to either verify who he/she was.
Because he or she is afraid for retaliation.@Kristoffer
“I’m faily sure, and Derek can correct me on this, that taking things through legal is merely a way of getting an approval that “we can’t be sued for this” rather than “everything here checks out as facts”, even though the only lawyers I’ve worked with have been corporate busines/merger/acquisition lawyers”
No, that’s not how that works. You have to ensure that you “source” material that is stated/posted. You just can’t just make up shit. And even so, it still does NOT prevent you from being sued. If you post it “knowing” it to be false and it is found to be false when you get sued, that’s when you lose.
You can get sued for anything you post and/or say. If and when that happens, that’s when you have to show the material you used etc. Read this article regarding the legal threat that Ortwin sent to The Escapist. It will give you an idea of how it works here in the US. Also this article.
e.g. If I were to get sued for my statements about the Gizmondo connection, well, they will lose because it would be found to be true (they were associated with the company). But if I said “these guys were involved in money laundering”, knowing it to be false, and I get sued – I will lose if I can’t prove that they were in fact involved in that because that’s a very serious allegation.
And The Escapist got information from sources (anonymous only to the public). If they were sued, then those sources would be deposed under law. And then it is their testimony – under oath – that will determine whether or not they made false or true statements to The Escapist. The Escapist has nothing to do with that. And since they found their sources (like mine) to be credible, that’s why they chose to stick to their story.
And no, nothing you just wrote applies to any US laws. Stick to Swedish law because I’m sure it will be more familiar to you. 🙂
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