[Kristoffer S]

There is another example of something I haven’t seen as concrete proof – of them saying “this is new stuff”? They showed it very recently, yes, but I don’t recall them saying “this is new stuff”? Please point out where that was said.

And yes, Jared has as much credibility of the making of this game as .. well anyone really. Because I believe him and even CR saying “2.0 will be out soon! Look more shiny pictures and videos” as little as I believe Derek when he only says “I have proof”. The only thing I can remember Derek having actual proof of was that they were married and had a kid – which was open for everyone who bothered to check IMDB. But that’s about it. And that’s not proof of anything regarding the games existence or not. What is proven is that this project has genereated a bigger budget than most AAA games has and that from a crowd funding campaign and she, as head of marketing, should get a little respect for that in my book because it goes in the category of “what is factual”. And yes, ofc there are more people now working there but “in the beginning” it was just a handful of people. But I digress.

What I meant with the comparison to Donal Trump is that Donald Trump is a certified asshole and very few people who have done business with him have good things to say about him. But you can’t argue with his results. He’s made it work and made insane amount of money. For all I care CR could be a royal jerk, he can be muslim or hindu, he can be a freaking trained monkey for all I care, if the results are there it doesn’t matter in this case. It’s not like I’m asking to have a beer with the guy, I’m asking to play the game he wants to make 🙂

And it’s pretty ironic how this place has more intelligent, respectful discussions in one week than RSI forum in over a month…

[Kristoffer S]

Alex Mayberry left, yes, For “personal reasons” that can be anything from family to hating Chris, we don’t know. But Jason Hutchins is still there. As is Jared Huckaby, and according to the interview a few weeks ago half the QA department is former Blizzards, as was Ship-shape Lisa (who I know isn’t there anymore). So there are quite alot of them.

I don’t know CR is an asshole, I’ve never met him. So I’ll leave the personal attacks out of it. But I do know John Rhys Davies is no fool, and only a fool wwould work with such a character you describe – thrice! And even if he’s the kind of character you describe, he doesn’t have to be a nice guy to run a company, just look at Trump!

Regarding what “proof” or “smoking guns” Derek has or don’t have, we only have his word. But if his prediction is true than the company shall crumble and fall before Jan 6th next year and we’ll never even get to court to find out what he does and does not have. Simply saying “I have proof but can’t show it” does little to sway me.

[Kristoffer S]

I know. I remember it well when he promised SQ42 before the end of the year. CIG are coming off as complete noobs in game making when they say stuff like that, I don’t know anyone that follows game dvelopment that believed what he was selling. So I’m not arguing that, I totally support that and they shouldn’t ever say anything like that again and then not deliver anything.

But that’s not what this disagreement was about. It was about “lir big” saying that Chris promised 2.0 in “2 weeks” during citizen con 2015, which he didn’t. Joe then linked a video to support the argument he did promise that, but didn’t check where that videoclip came from (Gamescom 2014 talking about 0.9, so that’s 3 errors of 3 possible). And that’s what I really dislike, when people are internet arguing with things they think are facts without actually checking up on them. Fact checking is boring as hell and only sticking to facts is boring, but it doesn’t serve anyone to come up with false arguments like this. And I’m sorry I have to be bad cop about that, but the good thing is I have no problem admitting to CIG’s fuckups as well!

CR did not at CitizenCon promise a date for 2.0, he was so careful not to because “people give me shit for giving dates”. Blizzard pretty much trademarked “soon” and you know how many ex-Blizzards there are at CIG? Too many to count!

[Kristoffer S]

@Janis Egle ; If you’ve followed a project to make a AAA game in incomplete alpha for 6 months and felt you needed to “get out” and sold your ships, then you really shouldn’t sign up for a project like this again because you’re a part of the problem with open development!
As the white knights will be quick to tell you – a project of this size should take 5, up to 7, years to produce, and you wouldn’t even know it existed the first 3. And as all the big publishers are now allowing “beta” access to their games, that “beta” is 4/5 times for promotional purposes and 1/5 for load testing alone, i.e the game is pretty much complete and “gold” at that stage. This project is alpha modules that aren’t really bound together yet so yes, they are buggy and absolutely not feature complete! So if you expected differently then you were wrong to do so. But I’m happy that you got out, because CIG is showing with their refunds, albeit slow, that they don’t want people to feel screwed.

The counter argument here is ofcourse that it shouldn’t be in this alpha mess at this stage according to CIG own promises. As late as April they said SQ42 will be out before the end of the year, which I’m pretty sure everyone realises isn’t going to happen. Their projections are so off and amateurish that it seems like they’ve never done this before! So yes, it’s CIG’s fault for getting people’s hopes up and all this “PR talk” that seems exist to simply get more money into it when it’s nowhere near complete.

Personally I expect it in 2020 – if they have the money to go on for that long, which they should.

[Kristoffer S]

Let me be a bit of fact checker for you regarding that clip at 4:09 – that is taken from GamesCom (not Citcon) of 2014 (not 2015) and he was talking about 0.9 (not 2.0) dropping in about 2 weeks. As always, correct me if I’m wrong.

This is what is dislike the most in this “argument” – supporters of both sides have their facts wrong or scewed, which is where I step in because facts should be facts and not something made up and repeated enough so it becomes assumed fact! As I say, both sides are guilty of it.

[Kristoffer S]

He’s not talking about 2.0 in that clip at 4:09. Link the original video for context please.

[Kristoffer S]

@lir big : That’s not what I remember at all, I remember him avoiding giving any concrete timeline or date what so ever, just “soon”, no “2 weeks”.
I have very few facts supporting the statement that this is a scam, there is no game and CIG will shortly go bankrupt with CR, Sandi and Ortwin retiring to an island somewhere with millions. Where is the fact to support that?
The fact is it’s taking time, alot longer than they said it would and that there is today no playable game. And yes it’s a fact that they have lied about things and backtracked on their words. There is, from where I am looking, as much fact that there will be a game as there is that there isnt and that CIG will crumble before Jan 5th as Derek has said they would. What I see is them building a new office for everyone to fit in, which hardly supports the claims of them not having money.
There just isn’t enough facts either way i.m.o. Please provide those facts that the game isn’t going to come out before the money runs out, I’m all ears…

[Kristoffer S]

I don’t feel too bad since, from what we can actually see and what has actually happened that the project is indeed late and has exploded in size but it is still going.
If January 5th 2016 comes long and
– we don’t have 2.0: CR is so very wrong and the project is really really really fubar
– the project is still alive, then DS is so very wrong (source http://i.imgur.com/9DiiDJS.png)

So far what Derek has stated are opinions (which even though they weigh far more than most peoples are still opinions!), guesses, predictions, “inside info” from, for us, unknown sources, conjecture and rumors with a touch of “trust me”. Well I don’t trust anyone, not CR, not Derek so I look at it with sceptical eyes and asking “what is tangible? What can be proven?” and in that regards both camps are falling short – very short. Yes, Foundy 42 filed their accounting as they have to but as everyone knows, that don’t tell the entire picture. Actually, with the amount of companies involved in this (which is a bad omen in itself!) that might not say anything at all – we don’t know. Maybe Ortwin moved money around because he knew it would become public, we don’t know. And the more Derek takes everything CIG is saying and twists the truth around to increase the F-U-D the harder it is to trust him – for me! I.m.o he’s best when he’s pointing out actual wrongdoings or downright lies. And the fact that there are wrongdoings and downright lies to point out isn’t his fault though, that’ll all on CIG.

So for me it’s still sitting in the boat, looking at the fireworks, enjoying the show and going back for more popcorn 🙂

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