Star Citizen – Year Four

[dsmart]

@tonci I don’t know how Blizzard handles it. All games will handle it different since it is game/design specific.

We’re going to need 1 box for the first two and calc their interaction in a local space, second box for the next 3 and next two (farthest away) or one big for the whole rest… In case 2nd and 3rd can’t interact… but what if they can… how does, e.g. a projectile, is calculated when it goes through different zones? Recalc for every new zone it enters? What when it is in the same time in two zones (transition period)?

You just described the problem right there.

Here is a better analogy:

Imagine having a box split in two. You are on one side and someone is on the other. Your “zone” is loaded while the other is not. This means that you won’t know about anything going on over on the other side. So if you fired a weapon at the other person, nothing happens. Even if both zones were loaded, it would still take some serious crap to get everything in sync.

[dsmart]

Seeing the condition in which they recently released 2.0 in, I wanted to just paste this post I made back in August when the social/planetside module was first released. It seems even more relevant now since by all accounts, this 2.0 pre-Alpha release is going to be in this broken unfixed state for many months to come. And assuming they even survive 2016, I don’t see how this game – in it’s entirety and with everything promised – ever go Beta in 2016.

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So they have released the first pass of the social/planetside module in the recent 1.2 update which, amid cries of foul, went live to all backers, not just those selected for participation in the PTU (Public Test Universe).

Here is the release announcement by Tony Zurovec (He’s in charge of the Persistent Universe. Yes, he’s a fantastic developer who joined CIG a little over a year ago).

Yes, I have played it since it was in the PTU.

It looks outstanding! But as I’ve stated before, I don’t believe that anyone is going to be arguing about the visual fidelity of this game. So I’m not going to waste my time on that. As I’ve always said, they have a team of stellar content creators and developers who are stretching CryEngine3 to its full potential.

From the standpoint of a game developer and engineer, an avid gamer and ex-backer (FYI. I am no longer an official backer. My office received a check directly from Ortwin via FEDEX yesterday. More on this in another blog due out next week; and in which I will post an image of the check, showing the 08/24 check date etc) of this project, I am very disappointed in this release.

Why? I hear you ask.

Simple. They are doing precisely what I predicted that they would do, now that all this noise that we’re all making has thrown this project, and its creators into the “wtf is going on!? spotlight, garnered the attention of the Feds via the many reports etc.

Let me quote what I said in my latest Interstellar Breach blog on the matter; and the one that contained the legal demand letter they were sent last week.

“As far as this project is concerned, from my observation and experience, it is my opinion that if they ever ship a completed Star Citizen game, that is true to the “vision” they have been selling, it will be a game that could have been made in four years for $20m.

Instead, with all this resource waste due to bad project management, scope creep, wasteful and improper spending etc, they would have blown through $86m+ and with zero accounting for where the money went. But hey, they shipped something, right? But since I don’t believe that the game – as pitched – will ever see the light of day, backers are going lose, no matter how this ends.

Here is the crucial problem with this. The minute they deliver a “game” that fits the framework they have described, regardless of how buggy or incomplete it is, the legal hurdle of accountability becomes harder to get over.

For example. You pay me $100 to build you a quality box. Then through delays you start getting irate, forcing me to deliver or face legal consequences. The end result is that I’m going to build you a flimsy box for $10. Now you have a box. I get to keep $90.

You now have to decide whether or not it’s worth coming after me for building you a cheap flimsy box.

How many times haven’t you ordered something online, received it, then had to return it because the quality or operation was not as expected? That’s what we’re facing here if we don’t push for accountability. Except in this regard, you won’t be able to return it; nor will you be able to get a refund.

Unless there is fraud and/or criminal conduct uncovered, they will get away with it; walking away with millions of dollars either through unjust enrichment, or spent foolishly in order to keep up appearances.”

Having seen what they released a few days ago as the social/planetside module, there is no doubt in my mind that precisely what I said above, is what they’re doing now.

This module was in no way, shape or form ready for release. Yet they released it in order to – for the first time – make a deadline in order to “silence” critics like me in an effort to show that stuff is coming.

I am just shocked that $88m+, 500+ people and four years later, backers to date, only have three largely buggy and incomplete modules, with network code that is still incredibly sub-par.

And no, they didn’t meet this end of Aug deadline as many seem to think, and which White Knights are rejoicing over. This module is vastly incomplete, contains glaring bugs etc and there is no way on this God’s Earth that anyone can tell me that they didn’t know about these bugs ahead of the release, seeing how obvious they are.

Worse still, they have to build 800 of these things. At first, it was 100. It’s now Aug 2015 and the 1st one – right out of the gate – is this beautiful, incomplete mess.

And CR says the game will be complete by end of 2016.

Take a look at the epic looking Nyx Landing Zone video (https://vimeo.com/137655209). Yet another example of how spectacular this game looks.

Now look again. See that chugging? Those are some of the performance issues that they’re going to be facing. And this is just one client in this “level”. Imagine what’s going to happen with 4, let alone 24 (or whatever client count they’re shooting for these days) clients in here at that visual fidelity level.

Oh, and as I understand it, this is just a flyby landing zone. So yeah, all this work for what amounts to a glorified landing cut-scene in the social/planetside module. Most are going to skip it once the novelty wears off.

And let’s not even get into the performance issues.

Anyway, here’s the thing. We already saw this ArCorp level at GC2015 a month ago. And we know now that it was staged because the experience (from my play through and from other reviews) we saw then, is totally different from what they have now released.

Let me explain staged:

“In dev speak, the term “staged” means to have been designed and executed specifically for a different purpose other than that which would be experienced by a user.

In this regard, even by the directions that CR was giving which in and of itself is part of the “staging” process, it was easy to see that the team of players only flowed the way they did because there was a director (in this case, Chris) in charge.

Also, we saw the same client/user “sprinting” (actually is “positional rubberbanding”) in the 1.2 PTU just now released, that we saw a month ago in that demo. And of course, we didn’t see people falling through the world, clipping into geometry etc. Pretty much, most of what is in this user review of the 1.2 PTU wasn’t evident (at least not clearly) in that presentation.

Finally, if you looked at the recent dev update, you will see references to merging code from the Gamescon build. That means they had a special build for that event and which was not part of the current dev pipeline.

So no, that presentation was not indicative of the actual experience that a gamer would have. And that’s now evident in the 1.2 PTU which contains those same assets, levels etc. That’s why I say it is “staged”.”

Aside from that, back in a Forbes interview (the same one in which he said the game would cost $20m to finish) from May 2013, CR claimed that this social/planetside module would be finished and playable in 2014, with the full game being ready for delivery by the end of 2014.

It’s now end of Aug 2015.

Which means that it is now over a year and a half late. You can actually chart this yourself, even if you ignore the interviews themselves. In fact, here is an RSI forum thread from Feb 2014 asking about the release of this module which was scheduled for March 2014.

Like AC 1.0 which was released in a similar fashion, and almost a year later is still buggy for the most part, this social/planetside module is also incomplete and buggy. Which, from what I’ve seen, means that there is a very good chance that it could take several months for it to get into any decent working and complete state.

So once they release what I believe is also going to be a half-baked Star Marine and SQ42 (Episode 1) and whatever the heck they think (my guess is that they’re going to peddle it as AC 2.0 / Multi-Ship) is the PU, that box mentioned above will be their delivery vehicle for the “vision 2.0” game.

Hangar, Arena Commander, Social/Planetside, Star Marine, SQ 42, Persistent Universe (derived from AC 2.0 w/ multi-ship)

At that point, regardless of the quality, they would have “delivered” on Chris’ vision 2.0, thus reducing their liability. You know why? Because there is a big difference between these two:

i) non-delivery for something you’ve taken money for

This one keeps them open to a lawsuit. More disastrous is that it subjects them to the invasive prying eyes of the Feds (especially the FTC and the FBI) for so many reasons that when the attorneys ran me through the list a couple of weeks ago in a strategy meeting, I was astonished. In fact, while I was focusing on the FTC, I had no idea that any part of this would even fall under the purview of the FBI.

ii) delivery of something – anything – that has no guarantee of performance

This one can get them out of a lawsuit, and possibly the invasive prying eyes of the Feds.

However, as we have seen with lawsuits against game companies such as Sony, Sega et al, companies can still be sued if they are perceived to have intentionally shipped a shoddy product, false advertising a product etc. So depending on who would decide to pursue this, the risks are still there. Especially given the numerous statements that CR has made over the years about this project’s schedule, scope, funding etc, which are collectively going to make it a slam dunk to get this one in front of a judge if they end up shipping a rushed and shoddy product.

The end result is that, if they “deliver”, backers are going to end up with a shoddy mess that took five (assuming they survive 2016, which at this rate, I have no reason to believe that they will) and $88m+ to develop.

There are those White Knights already crying foul saying that they were forced (well doh!) to release this in order to silence critics (fuck Derek Smart!), that they met (uhm, no they didn’t) a milestone release etc.

This is all just the usual noise.

And they’re not saying:

“Hey hang on! Why is this, after almost two year delay, STILL IN THIS CONDITION!!?”

While I continue to applaud the stellar development teams who are doing everything that they can to create Chris’s over-ambitious vision 2.0 pipe-dream funded by other people’s money and with zero accountability, I am still holding him 100% accountable for the disaster that is now unfolding in full public view due to the direction that he has taken this project.

While I have nothing against ambition, the fact remains that if you make promises to backers, then break them, you should be open about it and hold yourself accountable rather than making excuses.

And part of that “openness” means showing backers i) how their money has and is being spent ii) why they should continue giving money and putting faith in the project

I still believe that this project is FUBAR. And it saddens me to say it. I simply do not see how, from what we’ve seen thus far and what I know, they could ever hope to deliver on promises made for this “vision 2.0” game; let alone meet the expectations of those who funded an $88m+ epic dream of a game.

At this point, I don’t even need to sue them because for all intent and purposes, I should just sit back and wait.
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[dsmart]

Absolutely. And this is precisely why most people already recognize it as P2W as well.

But I wouldn’t worry too much though. The game is probably never getting finished. So worrying about that at this point is probably premature.

[lir big]

Hey and welcome aboard mate.

I know the feeling , went through it couple of months ago.
I hope you will ask and get a refund . These thieves deserve nothing more.

[darkarchon]

Yeah about those…

Hey everyone,

 

This is just a quick update to let you all know that we still have your refund request in our queues and that we have spent some extra time today implementing some updates that should make it a little easier and faster to respond and take necessary actions.

 

Please note that refunds are still very involved and can take considerable time to process.

 

Thank you for your patience and understanding during this time.

 

Thanks,

Mike

That will take some while.

[MDrake SC]

I found this image of a refund.

View post on imgur.com

Roberts Space Industries International Limited on November 23rd. Oh hey, his refund was a tiny $250. No shit CIG are ignoring large refunds like my $2,500.

Nice to know the fine folks at CIG do read the blogs and maybe the forums too.

[Tonci Jukic]

Is there a well know solution, aside from “a fix” that logarithmic z is? I’m an engineer, but I’m not an expert on 3D graphics; I’m pretty green in the modern 3D (only a year now, my work dates back to GL 1.0 and DX8 age where things were simple).

What puzzles me is, how in Y2015 CIG can’t get the flight model correctly, while 15 years ago Volition did it just fine with FreeSpace 2 (nobody would find it bad today even) and then Independence War/2 did great newtonian model also 14 years ago. Where did Chris f.up?!

Truth be told, I never really got that vision of going CryEngine for a space sim…

[Hat Blappington]

@Von Neely I’m a ten year plus veteran of eve online I love the game and the company, what you’ve put is a misrepresentation of facts/reality, In EVE if you wallet warrior your way to a titan or super as a new player you have to buy the character to use it too. It is  literally the only class(supercapital)that isn’t coverable by insurance which as a vet or player you know the reason its not insurable is because they aren’t dockable.

Goons and most other entities in EVE have SRP programs that replace losses for pilots regardless of ship(includes supers) class as well as the platinum insurance available on literally every other ship in the game meaning you only lose the fit on the ship(can be very expensive) Plexes killed a lot of rmt in EVE (this is why killing the greymarket is good business from CIG). But their biggest other use is to pay the fee for character transfers of which there are literally hundreds if not thousands a week

GoonSwarms rise to power in EVE was through use of noob ships “blotting out the sun” was the motto of Goons on their rise to power when or if this game releases don’t kid yourself that both Goons and reddit/Test wont be buying in their droves to get dominance over each other and crushing or converting every organisation of power along the way IF OR WHEN THE GAME RELEASES THIS WILL HAPPEN check SA for goons future participation if you think it wont, I have been a GOON(Sponsored by an SA buddy) and i’ve fought GOONS, never in a bloc war just for lols.

I can give you a counter for your LTI and shit has killed future game potential because if they lower the overall damage of base ship weapons making them unsuitable for PVP (ie EVE noobships) give market variants that don’t get insurance but take a few missions or some luck with salvage(if it happens) to get hold of or people can buy 5000 rec for ten dollars and buy a ships worth, arbitrary numbers btw, as long as they are achievable with a grind and not cash only stops P2W and raises money from whales same as a lot of other F2P games, as an EVE player you know what I’m saying can be adapted to fit another game ,its what makes EVE/CCP awesome.

EVE online has 400 000 or so subs at the minute all paying 20ish dollars a month, even plexes have to be bought originally for rl moneys i believe this gives EVE an annual turnover of 108 mill usd,in gaming terms this is a tiny player base but if you do the maths that it gives a very impressive cash flow, servers and running costs last time I read btw were something like 29 million a year meaning if they stopped making stupid shit like Dust514 and WOD they would have a fabulous profit for a tiny playerbase and there are ways for companies to mimic what CCP do. That’s what a dedicated playerbase gets you, how can you see the future and know for a fact CIG money men can’t copy some parts of this for future funding?

1) This is only a sidenote on if or when they get the game out, I guarantee neither

2) Attack the argument not the grammar

3) My opinion is based on ten years a player of EVE , 5 years a lowsec pirate, 1 year a WH dweller and 1 year in Goons the rest of my evetime I wasted on trying different lifestyles

 

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