Star Citizen – Interstellar Pirates

[Kristoffer S]

@Janis Egle ; If you’ve followed a project to make a AAA game in incomplete alpha for 6 months and felt you needed to “get out” and sold your ships, then you really shouldn’t sign up for a project like this again because you’re a part of the problem with open development!
As the white knights will be quick to tell you – a project of this size should take 5, up to 7, years to produce, and you wouldn’t even know it existed the first 3. And as all the big publishers are now allowing “beta” access to their games, that “beta” is 4/5 times for promotional purposes and 1/5 for load testing alone, i.e the game is pretty much complete and “gold” at that stage. This project is alpha modules that aren’t really bound together yet so yes, they are buggy and absolutely not feature complete! So if you expected differently then you were wrong to do so. But I’m happy that you got out, because CIG is showing with their refunds, albeit slow, that they don’t want people to feel screwed.

The counter argument here is ofcourse that it shouldn’t be in this alpha mess at this stage according to CIG own promises. As late as April they said SQ42 will be out before the end of the year, which I’m pretty sure everyone realises isn’t going to happen. Their projections are so off and amateurish that it seems like they’ve never done this before! So yes, it’s CIG’s fault for getting people’s hopes up and all this “PR talk” that seems exist to simply get more money into it when it’s nowhere near complete.

Personally I expect it in 2020 – if they have the money to go on for that long, which they should.

[Kristoffer S]

I know. I remember it well when he promised SQ42 before the end of the year. CIG are coming off as complete noobs in game making when they say stuff like that, I don’t know anyone that follows game dvelopment that believed what he was selling. So I’m not arguing that, I totally support that and they shouldn’t ever say anything like that again and then not deliver anything.

But that’s not what this disagreement was about. It was about “lir big” saying that Chris promised 2.0 in “2 weeks” during citizen con 2015, which he didn’t. Joe then linked a video to support the argument he did promise that, but didn’t check where that videoclip came from (Gamescom 2014 talking about 0.9, so that’s 3 errors of 3 possible). And that’s what I really dislike, when people are internet arguing with things they think are facts without actually checking up on them. Fact checking is boring as hell and only sticking to facts is boring, but it doesn’t serve anyone to come up with false arguments like this. And I’m sorry I have to be bad cop about that, but the good thing is I have no problem admitting to CIG’s fuckups as well!

CR did not at CitizenCon promise a date for 2.0, he was so careful not to because “people give me shit for giving dates”. Blizzard pretty much trademarked “soon” and you know how many ex-Blizzards there are at CIG? Too many to count!

[MDrake SC]

@ lir big

Thanks for the reply and hope.
Unfortunately, I am not the only large pledger that is being ignored. I have been talking with other high and grand admirals that have been ignored.

While there are other difficult options to go with, depending on how we want to get our money back, they also have risks.
The only sure thing is that CIG is only refunding $45-500 pledgers easily. Any higher is case by case.

Some of us will go down with the ship if other options don’t work out.
We will join Derek’s lawsuit when it becomes available.

[MDrake SC]

@ Kristoffer S

Relating to ex-Blizzards at CIG, the only facts I have to share are…

“[Executive producer] Alex [Mayberry] left Cloud Imperium Games last month for personal reasons”.

“Mayberry came to Cloud Imperium after spending nearly 10 years working at World of Warcraft publisher Blizzard Entertainment. He was the lead producer on action role-playing game Diablo III. Prior to that, he worked on World of Warcraft expansions Wrath of the Lich King and The Burning Crusade.”

July 6, 2015: http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/06/star-citizen-loses-its-executive-producer-founder-chris-roberts-brother-takes-over-role/

The rest is only speculation. But why would a 10 year vet from Blizzard leave? I think the reason is obvious. The way Chris Roberts attacked Derek shows just how much of an egotistical bully he actually is. Chris also attacked Lizzy pretty harshly too. The attacks are a fact. If Alex was attacked by Chris, it would be no surprise he’d leave mostly unannounced.

Fact is, Chris is an egotistical, arrogant, bully who is the CEO of CIG. They have missed nearly every date given. They have censored the official forums. CIG employees are fired, quitting or restructured. Arena Commander is a buggy mess. Chris refuses to give out any dates.

I am not waiting till CIG fails, to say the obvious fact: CIG under Chris’ leadership is screwed.

Another fact: Derek’s lawyers have torn up his blogs and have held back other information that will give the lawsuit a higher chance of winning. I can speculate based on the hints Derek has left, his lawyers have an amazing way of approaching this, and they have given CIG many chances to do the right thing. Good lawyers cost a chunk per hour, and it can be seen in their writing and handling of info or their client.

I can safely speculate: Chris, Sandi, and Ortwin… are in deep trouble.

[johnny canada]

“If you’ve followed a project to make a AAA game in incomplete alpha for 6 months and felt you needed to “get out” and sold your ships, then you really shouldn’t sign up for a project like this again because you’re a part of the problem with open development!”

@Kristoffer he said he sold his ships, which means the money did not leave the system the way a refund would have. Also, he said he observed the forums and gathered info before making the decision. that sounds responsible to me.

[Kristoffer S]

Alex Mayberry left, yes, For “personal reasons” that can be anything from family to hating Chris, we don’t know. But Jason Hutchins is still there. As is Jared Huckaby, and according to the interview a few weeks ago half the QA department is former Blizzards, as was Ship-shape Lisa (who I know isn’t there anymore). So there are quite alot of them.

I don’t know CR is an asshole, I’ve never met him. So I’ll leave the personal attacks out of it. But I do know John Rhys Davies is no fool, and only a fool wwould work with such a character you describe – thrice! And even if he’s the kind of character you describe, he doesn’t have to be a nice guy to run a company, just look at Trump!

Regarding what “proof” or “smoking guns” Derek has or don’t have, we only have his word. But if his prediction is true than the company shall crumble and fall before Jan 6th next year and we’ll never even get to court to find out what he does and does not have. Simply saying “I have proof but can’t show it” does little to sway me.

[MDrake SC]

Donald Trump has far more wealth than Chris Roberts does. Trump could finance all of Star Citizen, if he wanted. Chris had to ask for crowdfunding to convince outside investors in the beginning. Not a good comparison at all, even if they run a company. Chris did run 2 of his into the ground though.

Jared or DiscoLando has already been caught lying. They tried to use an Avenger rescuing an escape pod as new footage, when in fact it was a year old. I do not know where it is on reddit now. Derek posted it too: http://i.imgur.com/WiYasSG.jpg

Jared may have started as a SC fan, but he can no longer be trusted to give out true information.

I disagree with Derek that CIG will fail within 90 days or Jan 2016. Chris will get desperate and layoff more people quietly, offer more ship sales… as long as they get $2-3 million a month, they can delay failure up till spring 2016 easily.

Knowing Chris from his Freelancer days, he will maintain an image of success until he is either bailed out, or collapses. Since there is no Microsoft, it’s just a collapse waiting.

I find your desire for an “actual smoking gun” and hard facts to be a bit too… lenient. You really want to enjoy the show until it’s too late to salvage the project, or get a refund. Then again, you have far less to lose.

On the bright side, you are much nicer than the others that called me a “deserter” or “sockpuppet.” Thanks for being friendly even in disagreement.

[Kristoffer S]

There is another example of something I haven’t seen as concrete proof – of them saying “this is new stuff”? They showed it very recently, yes, but I don’t recall them saying “this is new stuff”? Please point out where that was said.

And yes, Jared has as much credibility of the making of this game as .. well anyone really. Because I believe him and even CR saying “2.0 will be out soon! Look more shiny pictures and videos” as little as I believe Derek when he only says “I have proof”. The only thing I can remember Derek having actual proof of was that they were married and had a kid – which was open for everyone who bothered to check IMDB. But that’s about it. And that’s not proof of anything regarding the games existence or not. What is proven is that this project has genereated a bigger budget than most AAA games has and that from a crowd funding campaign and she, as head of marketing, should get a little respect for that in my book because it goes in the category of “what is factual”. And yes, ofc there are more people now working there but “in the beginning” it was just a handful of people. But I digress.

What I meant with the comparison to Donal Trump is that Donald Trump is a certified asshole and very few people who have done business with him have good things to say about him. But you can’t argue with his results. He’s made it work and made insane amount of money. For all I care CR could be a royal jerk, he can be muslim or hindu, he can be a freaking trained monkey for all I care, if the results are there it doesn’t matter in this case. It’s not like I’m asking to have a beer with the guy, I’m asking to play the game he wants to make 🙂

And it’s pretty ironic how this place has more intelligent, respectful discussions in one week than RSI forum in over a month…

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