Star Citizen – The End-Game

Star Citizen – The End-Game

The final stage of an extended process or course of events”

The TL;DR recap on how I got involved in this farce and why I’m going to keep going until the very bitter end.


The four year, $90m+ Star Citizen video game project, is no longer a going concern. The project is FUBAR and there is no going back.

Now that multiple sources are saying that RSI/CIG only have around $8m of operating cash left, when you consider that with over 260 people working at four (CA, TX, Germany, UK), they must be burning around $3m per month, you quickly understand why they have been doing layoffs (Chris Roberts calls it down sizing) recently.

Since June when, with the aid of researchers, I started my independent investigation into this project and its creators (Chris Roberts, Sandra Roberts, Ortwin Freyermuth), the picture of where things would be six months out, was a bit murky to me. In fact, when I wrote the first blog, Interstellar Citizens that sparked this discourse, I had no idea that I was remotely close to being right about the end result. And it’s all neatly tied up in the Star Citizen – The Long Con blog.

I was originally looking at it purely from a design, development and delivery perspective. Having designed, developed and built massive games myself over a 30yr period, I knew that I had enough experience to weigh in. Especially after looking at what they had delivered up to June, and sifting through their dev logs.

I said that they didn’t have the tech to build the “vision 2.0” game pitched. They don’t. They are still trying to build it.

I said that they couldn’t build the “vision 2.0” game as pitched. They can’t. They are still trying to build it.

I said that it would cost over $150m, and another three years, to build the game they pitched, assuming they build the tech. Four years and over $90m later, they are still raising money.


In July, after I got wind of the Star Citizen project in trouble, unable to deliver, backer money being wasted, I started to investigate it. I got in touch with Chris to try and get some more details from him. He ignored both of my inquiries on LinkedIn (1) and Facebook (1). I even wrote a lengthy Facebook post (1) and included shared “friends” in it, hoping that someone would reach out to him. Nothing happened. The Interstellar Citizens blog was live and was propagated and quoted by media.

It was downhill from there.

Then, in what can only be described as sheer madness, they lost their minds and made it personal. They canceled my backer account, and refunded me. Without my requesting it. Then to make matters worse, they sent out a press statement to various outlets (1) about my being refunded, and my account canceled. They tried to make it look like I had somehow violated their ToS for the game and the website, and was using Star Citizen as a platform to promote my Line Of Defense game. Then they doubled down when Ben Lesnick in customer service, made a snarky public forum post (1) about it.

Problem is 1) I have never posted on their forums 2) I had never downloaded the game due it not being complete nor playable. They actually confirmed this in their legal response letter as mentioned in the Star Citizen – The Long Con blog. I currently have access to three accounts through friends and contacts. I used those to test the latest modules, write about them etc.

All these actions were taken in obvious retaliation for the blog and the fact that it got widespread release in the media. As you can now see, they simply made it worse by making themselves subject to the The Streisand Effect. That aside from the fact that they decided that taking on the one person who simply can’t be intimidated or scared, was the best path forward. They bet on my being completely vilified for writing an opinion based and technical blog; while forgetting that I have been a fixture of this industry for almost 30 years and that sort of tenure has its merits.

Once that started, I knew they had something to hide. So I kept digging and writing (six blogs to date). All the while Chris and Sandra kept making defamatory statements about me both in writing and in person. And there are people willing to be deposed under oath about the aforementioned statements.


Since 2012, they have been building the hype machine. This is gaming, we thrive on hype, hyperbole and drama. Lots of drama. So it wasn’t enough that they had a robust PR machine, that had the overblown promises to go with it. And so the media helped build up the hype, spread it, and in the end helped them perpetrate what, in my opinion, is turning out to be the greatest disaster in the history of gaming.

My analogy to this is that research shows that when innocent people go to jail, they are more likely to come out as criminals. Chris Roberts left the industry, went to Hollywood, and returned….something else. For the record, I still don’t believe that he set out to con or mislead anyone. But there are influences (personal, circumstantial, financial etc) which drive good people to do bad things. And if you knew how broke (he was), down and out as he was prior to the 2012 Kickstarter, you can quickly understand how circumstances can influence people.

Despite what he says about me, I don’t personally believe that Chris Roberts is a bad person. A largely incompetent and egotistical person, yes. A criminal? No.

But from what I know and have access to, not to mention the many sources who have come forward, by the time the dust settles on this, by all accounts, all three of them are going to be in some serious legal trouble. There is absolutely no version of this where they get away with this without shipping the game as promised.


A lot has been written about the hype machine, the media’s culpability in all of this, as well as ignorance of the signs that this project was in trouble and destined to fail. But I’m not going to dwell on that because I will leave that up to the gaming industry and gamers to point the finger and assign blame.

Chris Roberts killed this project when he changed from the original “vision 1.0” to the current “vision 2.0” they embarked on. He did this. There is nobody else to blame. I invite you to take a look at the original “vision 1.0” pitch from back in 2012 and which was later migrated to Kickstarter where they ended up making over $2m.

And he’s done this all before as I’ve written in my blogs.

Chris Roberts, a self-professed “visionary” has never – ever – been able to complete a project on his own. Like ever. This fact is lost on those who aren’t really familiar with his industry track record. He is one of those artistes who works best when directed. Put him at the top of any project, and the potential for the project to fail, increases. This is not hyperbole, it’s a material fact. And it’s all right there in the industry history.

Just because Chris happened to “work” on arguably one of the biggest space combat games in history, doesn’t automatically qualify him to repeat that success on his own and in an industry that has moved on fifteen years later. If the trail of failed Hollywood movies he went on to make, and the failure of his Ascendant Pictures aren’t an indication of a pattern, then you’re a fool to think that the word “success” should be in any statement that also has “Chris Roberts” in it.

At the start of this project, he went out and hired some of the best people in the industry. Then didn’t let them do their jobs, guide him, direct him, teach him. This was his gig, he wanted to be boss – all the time. And now it’s all coming out little by little.


Aside from making all the mistakes that put the project and backer money in jeopardy, the issue of nepotism simply cannot be ignored. Especially where it involves incompetent and inexperienced family members in control of over $90m in public money. And with zero accountability.

Aside from being just a horrible person, as has been reported, Sandra Roberts is ill suited to handle HR. Let alone manage the offices of professionals who are far more educated and/or experienced then she is. The fact that she is the wife of Chris Roberts, something they have tried very hard to hide, but which they have now admitted to, due to my bringing it to light, should be serious cause for concern. My theory is that they have tried to hide this union because they know that for such a high profile project, the creators would come under intense scrutiny and she simply won’t pass muster.

She didn’t “market” this game to raise $90m as she’s tried to take credit for. The media, the PR and the gamers who believed in Chris’s vision, made that happen. Confusing PR with marketing is the sort of mistake that people who don’t understand how that works, make. They are not the same thing.

Before this project, she had no marketing history, marketing work records, marketing digital footprint, or any of that. Prior to this, and working for Chris at Ascendant Pictures (where they met) as his intern, she was just another aspiring actress in Hollywood – reportedly with an expired Visa. Then married Chris, got divorced, marries him again, has two kids. Star Citizen comes along. Here she is, one of the key players in a $90m project.

She has gone on the record as saying that she has no clue what the VP of marketing does; but yet claims to have two marketing degrees. By all accounts, and based on our extensive research, those claims are false.

And while Chris is head of the project, she is head of the office while calling the shots in customer service, HR, community events etc. And is reported to be pulling a hefty salary as a result. All because she’s married to the boss, not because she’s qualified for the job. Imagine hiring an intern – with zero experience – then giving them a high profile job with matching salary, benefits and perks.

And because she and Chris are both reported to have toxic personalities, then it should come as no surprise that those who are still working (we all have bills to pay) for them or who have left, are now coming forward with their stories. It is important to note that the one or two people who have come forward in support of this company after The Escapist article, are not high level employees or contractors.

No, I’m not going to say anything about Erin’s role in this project as I have no cause to. As I’ve said before, he has his track record, has largely kept himself focused on the insurmountable task at hand, and that’s all there is to it. Though someone needs to remind them to file the required financials for the UK studios and businesses because we need access to them. If those aren’t filed no later than Oct 30th, we’re sending a letter over there and reporting it to the UK authorities because any actions taken by the authorities against this entity, affects backers investment in the entity. UPDATE: I have been notified that they filed an extension to Dec 31st, 2015

Ortwin is just an incompetent fool out of his depth. I don’t even need to dwell on him because the trail of failed ventures speak for themselves. Plus, I feel sorry for the guy to be honest. He should’ve known – right off the bat – what he was getting himself into; pairing up with these two and getting thrust into the limelight of what is on track to be their biggest failure yet. Yes, he already had a prior business relationship with Chris, but he should’ve known that teaming up with those two unhinged characters was a recipe for disaster. It’s happening right now. Aside from that, it has been reported to me that Ortwin’s law firm (which he owns), gets paid a monthly fee to do a set amount of legal work for all the companies associated with this project. And that he himself gets a money for apparently other related work for these companies. If that’s true, yes you guessed it: double dipping.

So, these are the four characters, three family members and one long-time friend and biz partner, who are controlling over $90m in public crowd-funded money. With zero accountability. That should concern everyone.


This section of the blog contained a lot of material that legal felt were best removed as they were suited in a legal complaint. So it’s a bit skinny from the original version“.

Last week, The Escapist magazine wrote a scathing investigative report (follow-up podcast) into this project. Something that no other media outlet had done before regarding this project. As they have said, I was not their source. In fact, only an incompetent media person would use me as a source. Given how close I am to all of this, the fact that I could not be regarded as an unbiased source even if I swore on a stack of Bibles to be unbiased etc.

For the purposes of full disclosure: What I did do, as I’ve been doing since July, was made contact with some mainstream (names withheld as per legal) media sources, trying to get them to investigate this project. This was as per my July 10th blog, Interstellar Discourse in which, right at the top, I had called for the investigation of this project and all its creators. This was because I had already been made aware of most of what is now coming to light as portrayed in The Escapist article.

As part of that effort, I gave them some of my credible sources, along with an overview of what I had uncovered and why I simply wasn’t the one to investigate this any further, due in part by information that I had access to and which was better off being in the hands of those same people (the media) who helped hype this project to what it is today.

I was wrong in making this decision and thinking that anything would come from it. They all chose to bury the story.

I had previously warned about this in my previous blogs. In fairness to some of the credible media in the pool, there is only so much that you can do without the right sources. And most of these sources simply do not trust the media. And for good reason. Chris Roberts, his top team members and primary PR person, David Swofford, have lots of industry contacts; and so leaks of identities of these sources presents a clear and present danger to their livelihood. Which is why when I made this Tweet, I again reminded them of this.

Plus, since this started in July, the narrative has now shifted to “Derek Smart v Chris Roberts”, instead of “Where is Star Citizen? And where did $90m go?” And once it becomes a matter of picking sides, as unflattering as that sounds, it is highly unlikely that I’m going to be favored to be sided with in this fight. That’s just how life works.

My question is that, with all the numerous articles out there, interviews, visits, face time etc. Why is it that nobody wants to ask the tough questions about this project? Primary question being, where did ALL this money go? We have pretty much nothing to show for it – four years later.

In response to the article, Chris Roberts, in continuing the downward trend to disaster, wrote a scathing diatribe that, on the face of it, looks like you’d have to be high to unleash that sort of tirade into the public domain. From the CEO of a $90m+ company no less. And clearly it wasn’t vetted by legal (LOL!! that would be Ortwin). It’s a Gold mine of actionable legal liability. And all it did was lend credence to some of the things being said behind closed doors about him, and which were now coming to light via these sources talking to the media.

The gist of it was that “Derek Smart is bad, this was all his fault, and he was the puppet master”. Oh, and GamerGate. He mentions me a total of 20 times. The author of the article got a single mention. And I didn’t even write the damn thing.

Sound familiar? Yes, that’s the blame game. The same thing that has plagued Chris throughout his video game and movie career. It’s always someone else’s fault.

Anyone reading it can easily see that it was a manifesto of sorts to the Star Citizen White Knight (all apparently going through the motions of sunk cost fallacy) community, in a message that was indicative of “..this is how we are, if you are not this, then you don’t belong here“. We who aren’t part of a cult, just LOLed and went “…OMG!! He’s totally rekt! This is a beautiful thing!

While my original section here was a detailed section by section take down of his entire diatribe, these are the main points that I can now only address unfortunately, as statements of fact and for the public record. There is only so much you can reveal to the public, without revealing your legal strategy. In fact, this may very well be my last Star Citizen blog until some legal action goes forward. So here it goes:

  1. I have never written a Glassdoor review about this or any other company.
  2. I have never been the quoted source for anything written in The Escapist article, nor the other upcoming reports I have been made aware of recently.
  3. I have never had any prior contact with the author of The Escapist article, let alone during the GamerGate uprising.
  4. I am not involved in GamerGate and never have been. In fact, look no further than the SPJAirplay event I was invited to as a neutral party.
  5. I have never made any defamatory statements (truth is an absolute defense btw) against any of the creators of this project.
  6. I have never “doxed” the Roberts Family. Despite people misinterpreting what that even means, posting links to online images, is not doxing. This is not doxing.
  7. I have never written him a letter accusing them of stealing my ideas or anything of the sort. Decades ago, smack talk may have been said that is no different from how things are now when comparisons are made between two products in the same genre.
  8. I have never advocated nor campaigned for this product to fail. My first blog, as well as my communications with Chris, are evidence of my intentions.  Couple those with my legal demand letter, and my intentions are clearly communicated and leave no room for interpretation as to the intent of same.

The doxing rhetoric was a bad attempt at generating outrage. Like everything else, that attempt failed. The material that’s out there, was put out there by them. And what has been linked to, are not public records (State, Federal etc) of any import. We have those. But they have never – ever – appeared in any of my blogs. I know better.

And nobody dragged their children into this. He, right off the bat in 2012, had his entire family in the original pitch video where, like a televangelist, he was begging for money to build his dream. Then, when in the face of claims of nepotism people started trying to prove that Sandi Gardiner was in fact his wife, and amid Star Citizen White Knights claiming that I was making stuff up, people went digging. This is the Internet; when people go digging they find stuff. So they came across an image of Sandi – with her daughter – on pages which linked her to “Roberts”, thus confirming the connection. I didn’t need to do that, we’ve had access to the public records since Summer this year! Without that verification, it would never have appeared in my blogs that they were in fact married. I didn’t use links to public records or pictures to prove this.


Chris Roberts does not have a notable social media footprint of any import. Don’t take my word for it, go look. I should know. I was on his Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn lists. And of course I have access to the RSI forums.

So in trying to connect Liz and I to GamerGate, it was – again – a poor attempt at generating outrage by using a gaming uprising that he has never – ever – before weighed in on, in any capacity. He has no clue what has been going on. All they (Ben, I’m looking at you) did was data mine our social media feeds to find “stuff“.

Then they took it all out of context, mixed it all up in an attempt to cast us in a poor light in order to discredit us and cast a shadow over the article and the integrity of the author.

This was just another attempt to see if he could blame GamerGate for this article and my actions, thus getting his media friends to jump on that bandwagon and deflect attention away from this mess. Once again, blaming the group for something that they didn’t have anything to do with.


When it was clear that he had screwed up, and not having gained the media support that he was looking for, he took it one step further by writing up and releasing a five page legal threat to Defy Media, the owners of The Escapist. That legal travesty of epic proportions, is now at the top of his original diatribe.

This immediately set the Internet ablaze and all armchair attorneys were quick to chime in. White Knights were rejoicing about the take-down of an industry publication that had dared to speak out against their cult. You know, pretty much the same thing they do to anyone, backers or not, who voiced any sort of dissent.

Ortwin, as he had done with me, gave an artificial self-imposed deadline of 24hrs.

I swear, no joke, I laughed so hard I felt something shift in my spleen. I immediately sent out a flurry of Tweets indicating that i) they were bluffing  ii) the cc of the attorneys in the letter was just a veiled toothless threat iii) The Escapist won’t blink

Seriously, it was one long weekend, and the Internet was ablaze with anticipation, flame wars, speculation etc. It was like waiting for election results. Or pregnancy test.

The Escapist didn’t blink.

In fact, they doubled down and issued a short statement at the top of the article.

“Update: The Escapist, notwithstanding Cloud Imperium Games’ notice and posting, stands by its coverage of Star Citizen and intends to continue to investigate the developing story. Since publishing our original stories, we have been contacted by, and are currently interviewing, additional sources corroborating a variety of the reported allegations. Additionally, if Mr. Roberts’ offer for The Escapist to “meet the developers making the game and see how we’re building one of the most ambitious PC games first hand” remains open, we take the opportunity to accept such invitation so as to hopefully provide the public with sufficient information and opportunity to vet such sources’ allegations and claims for themselves. We have also communicated the foregoing directly to Cloud Imperium Games.”

Disclaimer: A bunch of people got in touch with me following Chris’ diatribe and follow-up legal threat, inquiring about Liz’s contact info, as well as offering support, willingness to be deposed if I was moving forward with a lawsuit or if The Escapist was sued etc. And from their statement above, it appears that those same people reached out to them as well.

As was expected, the media fallout, even while everyone was waiting to see what Defy Media would do, was fast and furious. Information Redux has a detailed write-up of his diatribe and the legal letter, while Forbes and others (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) weighed in on the legal ramifications, media ethics – and Derek Smart.


If you recall, in August I had sent them a legal demand letter. Their response was boilerplate personal attacks. Which is why Chris’s diatribe and Ortwin’s legal letter to The Escapist which contained the same, should have come as no surprise. My attorney – the consummate professionals that they are – didn’t take that bait. Instead sticking to the facts in their follow-up response.

Here is where it goes completely – and utterly – bonkers. Seriously. Read on.

On Sept 30th, my attorney emailed me a Cease & Desist letter from Ortwin. That letter had been sent to one of my addresses (I have more than one residence) via FEDEX and I had not received it at the time. Since it was a separate matter from the Star Citizen fiasco, I sent Ortwin a stern but polite email (which is what Chris alluded to in his diatribe). It was a pretty lengthy email which discussed their baseless claims, pattern of conduct etc.

It started with this:

“Dear Ortwin,

While I have yet to receive your letter sent by FEDEX because it was sent to my beach condo (not my permanent address), Keith forwarded a PDF copy of it yesterday. As this is a separate matter from the Star Citizen issue currently being discussed, and not yet assigned to legal counsel, I wanted to send you this email response ahead of my discussing this with Keith and my Florida attorneys.


You can’t intimidate me. It really is that simple. So just stop that already! I don’t scare easily. Having started this in your profoundly ludicrous letter of this past Aug, you appear to be engaged in the same pattern of conduct.

It simply won’t work.

I am willing to discuss matters with you in an amicable and non-threatening manner in order that everyone get on the same page, and hopefully we can resolve these on-going issues before things get completely out of hand. That was the reason for my having Keith send you a letter in August.

But now, you’re starting something else that’s just not going to have the desired results. In fact, all you’re doing now is leaving you all open to the risk of even more causes of action, both civil and criminal.”

And ended with this:


I simply won’t stop pursuing this crowd-funded Star Citizen issue unless and until I get satisfactory answers from you or Chris.  

Any attempts to try and silence or intimidate me, will fail. And in turn, must make things worse and continue to cast you all in a poor light. Your conduct only continues to show that you have something to hide.

As I have stated publicly, I do not believe that you all intended to commit consumer fraud. However, given your past endeavors both here in the US and abroad, coupled with the manner in which this project has been conducted, you all have yourselves to blame for any appearance of malfeasance or improper conduct.

If it looks like a duck.

In fairness to you, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you simply have no clue what is going on with this project. Similarly, I will extend to you the courtesy of further discussions, without accusations or hyperbole or personal attacks. None of which you and your partners have accorded me.

If and when you are willing to talk, with or without attorneys, and find a way to settle our differences, you know how to reach me.”

When my attorneys had finished laughing, this reply was sent to them yesterday. Yes – it coincides with The Escapist decision. It’s not a conspiracy; we have better things to do with our time.


I am in the process of taking legal action against all of them. This is not a matter of if. This decision was made back in August following their response to my legal demand letter. Which is why, knowing that I’m not bluffing, they’re trying to bring criminal activity into play.

The issue is that there is so much stuff that needs to be sourced, verified, written, corroborated, people to talk to etc, that this is not something you toss into the legal system to see what sticks. Especially given the number of law firms it involves. That’s just recipe for wasted time and resources; especially if parts of the claims just end up just being thrown out of court. Key to this is the ToS which has a looming deadline of Nov 2015 at which time the refunds and disclosure of financials become key to it.

As if that wasn’t complex enough, as alluded to in my attorney’s latest letter, Chris and co decide to give us even more material to throw in there, with his diatribe and letter to The Escapist which also involved me.

All these recent legal actions, aside from the reports of them actively seeking investors, are also likely due to CitizenCon which is being hosted this Sat in the UK. It is a major pledge drive and the timing of The Escapist article couldn’t have come at a worse time. That, coupled with the baseless C&D letter sent to me were designed to keep the drama at bay during this week.

As is already evident, these efforts have failed.

Here is what backers of this game don’t know. CitCon is going to be more smoke and mirrors. Just like GAMESCOM and every event before it. They have nothing tangible to show. If they did, all the stuff they have recently shown, would be in backers hands by now and in decent form. In fact, you heard it here first:

  1. They are going to parade all the A-List actors – all of whom cost a ton of money – for SQ42. This despite the fact that the stand-alone game is reported to be almost fifteen months away from completion.
  2. They are going to show the opening cut-scene sequence for SQ42 with Gary Oldman giving his speech, someone flying and landing, NPCs waving etc.
  3. They are going to show Star Marine. Again. It’s still a mess – and nowhere ready for production release. Reports tell me that if it gets released before year end, it would be a miracle.
  4. They are going to show multi-crew. Again. Problem now is that, as of the last report I got, it doesn’t run smoothly at all. And so they are now running the demo on super computers with 16 cores, loads of memory etc. Again, not production release ready.
  5. There is nothing new being released to backers, other than another AC patch apparently.

I have said this in my blogs. The sources coming forward have said similar: these events are designed to be fluff pieces in order to raise money for a game that, for all intent and purposes, will never see the light of day as pitched.

The $90m+ of crowd-funded money that has gone into this project, is on track to be a total loss when this project inevitably faces a catastrophic collapse from running out of money, key talent departing etc. That aside from the fact that they have no choice but to reduce the scope of the project, cut costs etc in order to stay afloat for as long as possible.

And when it collapses and companies start sifting through the debris in bankruptcy court or auction, my guess is that you can probably pick up that $20K (!) cappuccino machine purchased for the new LA office (the one where all work has stopped due to a dispute with one of the contractors), for less than $5K. No, I’m not kidding. They apparently have a $20K cappuccino machine that backers paid for. Because Chris always wanted one. Go ahead, ask him.

My estimates, based on cash on hand reports, had pegged them lasting around 90 days. So if this doesn’t all fold before the end of Q1/16, I would be pleasantly surprised.

Finally, I have recently been made aware that they are now shopping around for investors to shore up their finances or get a bail out. Problem here is that there is nothing there to bail. And with a $90m+ financial liability, which amounts to people who have legally pre-purchased a product and are awaiting delivery, it’s simply too late. The design of this product, ensures that anyone even trying to pick it up for pennies on the dollar, is looking at spending another $50m+, and two years, to finish it as designed. Even if they throw everything out, and just stick with SQ42 and/or Arena Commander, that’s another two years of work. At best.

Chris Roberts no longer has the money nor the time to finish this game. If he did, they won’t be raising funds by selling concept art for a game that has yet to be developed. If what he said was true, that if funding stopped that he could still finish the game, go ahead and call him on that. STOP funding the project. Test him.

Long ago I stopped looking at this game the way I did when I worked for a publisher who gave me a fixed budget to make a retail game. I now look at our monthly fundraising and use that to set the amount of resources being used to develop this game. We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012). If you combine our in-house staff and outsourced developers, we now number more than 280 people. Your support has created a significant number of jobs in the gaming industry. (And no matter what you might have heard, only a small number of our team is tasked with designing new ships!)

I don’t build dreams. I build games. I know these things.

Star Citizen is finished. THE END.

ps: They are doing refunds if you are persistent. Only now they are asking for a reason. You are NOT legally bound to give a reason. So don’t.


730 thoughts on “Star Citizen – The End-Game


    How would this level of detail work in SC scope? This is not something you can have by use 4 titanX in SLI, this is a game trying to be a Civilization played in first person that looks like Crysis. But its ambition is more than melt the eye, it must have a physics implant that as detailed as the graphic. Realistic physics as they put it, have your quad mount i7 ready. One thing tho no one pointed out, simulate real astrophysics on fictional spaceship design would produce a lot of unforeseen embarrassment.

    Keep masturbate to your wet dream on JPEG ships, you need to spend more than your next rig, on a piece of picture that is free prono on Deviant Art, so much for crowd funding, so much for community, so much for PC master race, so much for 30 something grown ups.

  2. I dont get it, what was all that about? Are they pretending they are fictional characters? And what’s up with this “Japan” thing, you mean “weeboo”?

  3. If anything, the legal pressure you are putting them could put them in a mode of working around the clock to put SOMETHING tangible out to the public before a major investigation would even start.

  4. Honestly, I understand this mindset, I gave ~$300 to Shenmue 3 and don’t mind if the game sucks or never gets finished.

    But in what universe is it OK to use a 2nd chance platform like crowdfunding to expand into things CR clearly has no idea if he can build.

    A company who spends their own money, expecting a possible billion dollar return, can afford to waste untold millions in development time experimenting with “dream” features, throwing money at problems, and delaying till the end of time, but even they are more restrained than CR. How do you justify taking that kind of risk with the hard earned money of innocent nerds, who everybody knows can get overly obsessive about things they like, and go too far.

    If after $94mil your $500 is still needed, this project is doomed. Get a refund (saying you’ll contact your bank to reverse the payment seems to motivate them) and if they deliver anything better than a massively bug filled AC 2.0, you can put your money back in. Until CIG prove they can actually deliver, your money is just enabling the exploitation of more people going donation overboard.

    94 million!!! Apparently chump-change to Chris Roberts’ true vision. Nobody has a problem with that? You’re all sick. If Yu Suzuki did this I’d spit in his face.

  5. It’s called roleplay. It’s something people do when a game universe has a lot of backstory and lore. Where is the backstory and lore in Line of Defense?

  6. What you didnt have in those MMOS was a large % of the player base having game assets they could dump on the game economy for real $ once they decided the game wasn’t for them.

    Soon after launch there was very little RMT business to be had in SWTOR and may other MMOs.

    Now with an expectation of ongoing refunds, the Grey Market and gifting, you might expect there to be a whole host of additional issues in the SC PU because there could easily be a massive dumping of in game assets (ships) at various times.

    Even if the game makes it to launch, these dumps of assets will undermine game play.

    Over time, those that stick with SC will tend to accumulate SC assets as the development timescales and dumping events string out.

    So even If the game makes it to launch backers are gambling on a lot of low probability events coinciding for them to not see a huge or total write off of the funds they have given to CR et Al.

    Right now there is very little potential pay off for most gamers.

    CIG has had an opportunity to prove demand and develop some of the vision.

    As consumers we might as well let them risk their own money and those of investors to try and bring the game to fruition now.

    If the game launches and is successful, a player will be able to pick up almost any ship for a not too different price than they can “get” a jpeg now.

  7. From the article: “unfairly trying to tear down a game being made in good faith, and which is taking longer than planned and finding new ways to make money with the sole intention of being even better.”

    To be better, it has to be good first. It is not.
    In fact, it’s not even a game yet. And therein lies the core of the problem – money is being collected to make something *that’s not there yet* better. You can’t ask people for money to improve a product you don’t even have yet for long.

    At some point they realize that, what you’re actually asking for, is actually more money to keep the project above the water.

  8. Call me stupid but I don’t see how you can use that spreadsheet to get to the one metric I’m curious about which is amount of $45-$50 “game packages” sold, since that’s the one that comes closest to the conventional metric of “units shipped” or “preorders” in this project? It’s the same with Blizzard titles, one account can have several licenses for WoW for example, but they prefer to look at “units shipped” rather than how many individuals there are.

  9. 780k sales but point still stands Derek accounts with fly free add to the users not backers, backers are people who’ve bought packages also the subscribers/monthly donators aren’t added into the total either for fundraising purposes. I don’t believe anybody public has knowledge of how much that is?(not to my knowledge anyway)Details of the AMD and Saitek deals as well as monetization of videos etc also aren’t known
    As to SQ42 it wont be finished in 2016 but it was always planned to be released in stages as long as they don’t release 2 missions and say that’s stage 1 I wont be too angry as it’ll prove the techs far enough done to finish the game, plus the game (SQ42)is actually for the vast majority in Erin’s studio and I have great and justified faith in Erin I don’t think we should predict future sales on any game because this is a genre that’s been neglected forever and nobody expected it to hit the heights it has funds wise tbh it’ll depend on how good the VP of marketing is at the job at that point.

  10. It was an interesting read but just like everything else out there, including your posts, almost all of it is unsure conjecture. What really hit the nail the head is his last paragraph. I would like to know how much money CIG has left myself and would love to go in to their offices and see what is actually working in the engine so far with my own eyes but I don’t see it happening. I have a lot of experience with how a company handles it’s books and no company I can think of is going to release that information if they don’t have to. It’ll be interesting if your “legal action” brings it out but I don’t see it happening anytime soon and by the time you’d get around to getting it through legal action I think the fate of the company will already be known. If anything, until legal action is resolved, months or years down the line, much less will be released to the public than is currently out there from CIG. If anything, being under legal action, may actually help them address some of their problems with having to deal with the public directly.

  11. The white knights continue to amaze me. A new “Plain Truth” comm-link comes out, and they spend the time analyzing video game leader Bishop and jump points, while ignoring the blatant… PLAIN TRUTH.

    “Real people died that day in Vega.” How about real people are losing money and real developers lost their jobs (or quit)?

    “No, the accusations I’m going to make lie squarely at the feet of those in power.” Yeah… who is the CEO of CIG and RSI? Co-founder? VP of marketing?

    From the forum, “Bishop and the UEEN command are absolutely and irredeemably incompetent.” Now just look a little past science fiction, please.

    Oh, I couldn’t help but laugh at the OP’s blatant use of the referral code and system.

    It’s impossible to feel sorry for these guys. Especially the two white knights I was acquainted with and share a connection with “Japan.” A few grand admirals are gonna get mauled, and will probably excuse it with “I knew the risks.”

  12. It’s not that easy because we don’t know what metric represents what – as usual with licensing!

    What counts as a “backer” is the unknown here – is it a physical individual with atleast one game package to his account (which it would logically be), or is it just a game package?

    Because since you can have as many game packages as you’d like to one account, “backer” might not equal “game package”. And since “game package” comes with a copy of the game, as opposed to stand alone ships, it’s in essence a “prepaid preorder”.

    That’d mean if half of those 700k backers have more than one package they have 1 million prepaid preorders. And yes, alot of backers do have more than one “game package”.

    But I don’t think they are publically listing the amount of packages sold anywhere?
    (this is all speculation until they start being very specific about what metrics they are using, or someone getting access to some financial records)

  13. I’m in it for the long haul because I’m a 700k (23 Jan 15) something backer. I don’t have the luxury of being a kickstarter refund case. A refund isn’t and option for most of us under the new TOS. For now I’m just not putting any more money into and praying for something that’s released that shows me you don’t know what your talking about. I don’t really need the $500 bucks back (or I wouldn’t have put the money into it in the first place) but there’s a big part of me that hopes Roberts can somehow still pull this project off despite all your doom and gloom.

  14. Its a good article. But not entirety unbiased. Some of the wording i gives it away. But none the less a goos article for anyone who doesnt know is going on with white knights vs black knights thing.

  15. HatBlappington: It depends on if they are going to keep the game in either first person, third person or both. Either way, judging by how broken Star Marine is, coupled with what we’re seeing in the PTU of late, I’d said they have a long way to go.

  16. Kistoffer: uhm no, they haven’t sold a million copies. They have about 700K backers and around 1m accounts. There is a difference between the two. e.g. people who try the game with free coupons and such, get their own account which also adds to the count.

  17. Derek if they did or do push SQ42 would they be able to do it without the 3rd person animations approach(the realistic aims/viewing) or would this require massive reworks?

  18. I know, it’s why I said “beyond the 1 million the already have”, ’cause they’ve basically already sold a million copies… (and so far that’s the only metric I reckon that their “1 million” celebration was for, amount of game packages sold).

    I backed E:D too and was unfortunately disappointed with the end product and have only played a few hours of it, never got into it. Still, I played the original Elite so much that I guess I owe Braben 🙂

    It seems to me, as an outsider, that focusing on getting SQ42 out would mean putting things aside that aren’t necessarily a part of that – most importantly the netcoding issues that’s dragging them down, which is also causing issues with multicrew ships, stuff that won’t be an issue in single player game when your computer is the client and server (which I’m not sure if they’re still going with btw?). But as you say, just doing a new bigger hotter Wing Commander should be rather straightforward now that they’ve got the “big game map” figured out and motion capture recording. But what do I know…

  19. November is the month you say it yourself right there so where is the point in this first stuff? its like the GIFs of bugs serves no real purpose and looks imo childish
    Your points have real grounds pls stick to it attacks like that just look cheap and childlike to me its the sort of stuff I expect from my kids

  20. I hate to say this, but not a shred of evidence I’ve seen from her has indicated she can even act. I can see her being hired as a model because she has nice features and is “exotic” looking, but she is WAY too stiff to be an actor. Empire report is a perfect example of her acting in-ability…or even those ATV skits they did.

    When I heard she was in SQ 42 I face palmed…then Ben goes and says she should have had her name in the credits with the likes of the other AAA screen actors they paid to be apart of this nonsense.

    Anyway to end this rant, I don’t think the other actors were hard on her, she probably liked her even because was trying really hard and is the Directors wife.

    Actors of that calibre are rarely indecent towards those with less skill than them…they are the best and they worked with what they had.

    All that said, curious to see how it all plays through in the game…i’m sure her dialogue will be heavily edited/ADR with specific direction to get it to work. With enough time and cheats you can make even the worst actors come to life.

  21. You have to consider the number of people who backed this game at this point *might* be close to the ceiling on marketshare for this type of game. SQ 42 is already paid for by a large number of backers, so they need a bunch more to really leverage continued PU development costs. Not sure the “space sim” has come back to AAA quality in terms of audience, but that’s yet to be seen.

    I suspect they will have other sources of revenue currently, the number you see on their funding page only represents backers crowd funding pledges at the moment. Who knows what other business deals they have made/sold or are about to sell.

    Still lots of post production work to do on 10 hours of gameplay footage for it to be ready, I would say at least 9-12 months just for that, never mind the programming elements that will need to be done to make the story line feel dynamic.

  22. True.

    When asking for a refund, you will probably be told the following (among other things):

    “We cannot refund gifted pledges to and from your account”
    “We cannot refund delivered physical items”
    “We cannot refund any and all subscription payments”

  23. Padre: Yeah, seeing the engine problems with Star Citizen, that’s what I think they’re shooting for. I don’t believe that it will work. See my other response.

  24. Richard: You’re just being silly. In the history of the gaming industry, when key people leave/terminated at this stage of a project, it is always a sign of trouble. I’ve been around long enough to know and see that happen time and time again.

  25. HatBlappington: I pay a set of very expensive and knowledgeable attorneys to figure stuff out. I am inclined to listen to them than someone on the Internet. Nov 2015 is the month in which they have to give “no questions asked refunds” and provide the financials.

  26. Kristoffer: The thing is that even if they focused on SQ42 and got it out in 2016, that game still relies on key components currently missing and/or incomplete & buggy in the engine tech.

    Also, even if they miraculously pulled that off, 700K backers already pre-paid for that. This being a PC game, they’re going to be hard pressed to sell more units than that. Consider that the awesome Elite Dangerous took over a year to even hit 800K sales.

  27. So quick question: If one were to have “helped” secure ships for other people for this game and in the end decides to ask for a refund. What happens to those ships that were gifted from the original purchaser to other individuals? Do the new owners lose the ships or is that deducted from the requested refund amount?

  28. Let’s assume SQ42 will be released sometime in 2016. Is it possible, that SQ42 will be such a success, that from the revenue coming from that game will support the development of Star Citizen? I think this is the scenario they have in mind, but then SQ42 has to be a game with 90% reviews across all medias right? How good SQ42 has to be, to make enough profit to fund Star Citizen?

  29. People change jobs … if this was a big deal, then more then one major company/game would have toppled by now.
    Nice try at creating a panic again though.. but no cigar.

  30. Fair enough. I am definitely an idiot !

    If I am wrong on the skills this chap has I bow to your knowledge on these matters.

    However, it reminds me of some of the other concerns i think I am right in saying you have raised relating to the way the different studios work together and the overall programme management.

    There is definitely a cultural element involved when American and European teams get together and start work (corporate culture wise and nationality differences in approach and style)

    I do therefore wonder how well the teams and individual nationalities are working together just on these grounds alone.

  31. What would be almost priceless would be the thoughts (or fly on the wall video) of the Actors that acted with her on SQ42.

  32. And of course, as Derek has said many times before, we have man at the helm with a track record of not delivering such projects even when he was being managed by a publisher.

  33. Indeed, I see that as well. He wants 3 AAA games all in one and majority of those games alone should set a developer back $100-$200 million each. Anything less then that will give you a subpar game pretty much like an Easter egg…all looking good on the outside with no substance inside.

    The Concept of the game sounds great but with such a small budget the end product with all he has envisaged will be a empty shell of its full potential….unless as you have said they get “bailed” out or sell off to a AAA company that can inject the rest of the money needed to fully complete this title.

    Perfect example of this is what Eve online has tried to do with Eve Online – Dust 512 -EVE: Valkyrie – that is what Robert’s wants PLUS the ability for characters to walk seamlessly between the different aspects of the games. The budgets alone for developing the Eve titles cost more then his $90 million budget.

    I would love to see this endeavor come to fruit….but at what quality and what substance will we get it with such a low budget.

  34. TBF I agree with some of what you’re saying but SWTOR does that 300million include the marketing budget? The reason I bring this up is as a common thing from my point of view I see it bandied around that 50 percent of game dev cost is marketing.
    This game can’t be done for 90 mill hence they haven’t closed funding and its ongoing I know what game I backed and what challenges(sort of) that they are facing I put 400 dollars into it but instead of throwing more money into it my funding is dry until the baby PU releases if that delivers some of what I hope for I have a friend in South Africa who gets screwed by costs due to the conversion /cost of living so I’ll buy him a starter package does this make me mad/stupid or a white knight? The PC issues/requirements are gonna be high but visual fidelity in all pitches has been put in the high end as in it high end requirements hardware wise

    Also to clarify a few things
    1) The videos are paid for by subscribers its a separate fund and doesn’t come off of the total funding
    2) I am in my 40s I don’t need a penis car (I don’t even drink) I game to this end I spent roughly 2000 usd upgrading my PC to play games if I need to buy a second GPU or whatever component to experience this or any game I play at its best I will do wether it be 4k monitors or………….
    3) Derek is 100 percent right in my opinion all the early backers from kickstarter should be offered a 100 percent no bullshit no time constrained refund when the November time comes round
    4) Derek nowhere does it say nov 1st so pls stop linking the 5 day timer clock cos I’d argue refund time is when the kickstarter ended RSI could legitimately argue it’s anytime up to the end of November (this sort of things makes you look less credible IMHO)

  35. One can hope that “vision 1” (which is SQ42, “the spiritual successor to Wing Commander”) does come out in 2016 as a full game and everyone that haven’t dared to pledge for this project because of [insert whatever concern here, there are so many to chose from!], or maybe not even heard of it(??), dishes out the $30-$40 that game will retail for and thereby increasing the coffers at CIG. But that’d require more SQ42 focus than the attention that the mile high club is getting! And if they’re going for another $100 mil to finish the PU and have healthy economy for server operations and evolution of the game that’d mean some 3 million “units shipped”, beyond the 1 million they already have.

    Because, like Derek, I pledged to the idea of a spiritual successor to Wing Commander. The rest is just frosting on the cake, but we need a damn cake to put the frosting on in the first place!

  36. Layoff poor Porky. He is right! The all-talented Ms. Gardiner will be assuming the role that Dan vacated. She speaks German after all! What other qualifications do you need? As Porky pointed out, he isn’t as good as most people think. Heck, folks would think that ol’ Dano wrote the book on the CryEngine 3. Oh wait—he did write that book… But who cares! If SG had been doing the job we would be playing Star Citizen right now. Instead we had Dan doing things like making ships and actually getting them playable in engine. But yeah–companies have turn over all the time.

    Seriously, what successful project doesn’t lose all their vital, experienced staff and replace them with new folks when “supposedly” 2/3’s of the way complete?

  37. Ian: The problem is that the original vision 1.0 pitched back in 2012 was totally doable. Now with vision 2.0, he has blown through over $90m to make a “game”. All the while completely oblivious to the fact that the game he is building is like three triple-A titles all rolled into one; and thus need even more time and 3x the budget.

  38. This is not a big deal at all! CIG still has their VP of Marketing. Tracy’s departure simply frees up a lot of budget dollars that can now be re-allocated. The VP of Marketing will be expanding her role to Lead Designer, after all, I’m pretty sure she has a graduate degree from Berkeley in Design. Oh and don’t worry about anything–here buy this new concept ship instead–it will do really cool things–promise!

  39. Such a pity about this game,Like Chris Roberts I too have dreamed of such a game in scope and complexity, but been in the IT industry for 30 years now, I know it is almost impossible to deliver such a game with today’s hardware ( average user wont be able to afford the PC that will be required to run this game efficiently with the scope they want to achieve- the gaming servers alone will be near to super computers to handle all the processes).

    I look at examples like “Star Wars The Old Republic” how that was a flop at release and that cost almost £300 million to develop and is currently the biggest flop in the gaming industry to date. Another is Age of Conan, another financial flop and failure at launch.. these are AAA games with huge funding and they fell flat wit hall sorts of coding bugs and really fell short of expectations.

    I am having a hard time trying to envision what Chris Roberts wants to achieve with ONLY $90 million…. For his vision to come close to what I believe he wants to achieve..he will need atleast another $100 million and atleast till 2017 earliest to develop the full game and universe.

    I for one hope (and dream) that he can pull it off with some luck…it would really be an amazing game, but alas I think what we will end up with is going to fall short of a lot of peoples expectations.

  40. Leaving them dig their own graves is probably the only sensible response, you’ve got that one right, LOL.

    Oh, and nearly choked on my coffee when i got to the Taken spoof.

  41. Yes, I found out via your tweet. Sadly, the reddit responses prove both of us correct.

    Frankly, I cannot believe how beyond idiotic they are. I’ve been around for a long time, and they just let it go “just like that.” I wonder if Mark Skelton leaving with his golden shirt of doom will change any minds.

    The zealots have reached a new path of enlightenment. Leaving CIG is the path of promotion.

  42. So I did look at your twitter, and I’m actually disappointed. Where is the fire-filled precision of old school Derek Smart?
    You’ve fallen to spam posting funny bugs, and complaining about the spelling and enforcement of rules in a forum.

    Not to mention you didn’t even count the number of comments on that post correctly.

    These are sad days when even you are not being your usual careful self.

    Why do I get the feeling that you are pushing yourself to hard on this? I know you swore to never back down and all, but you can do better then this.

    All you are making me do is want to download the game and try and find other bugs. You’re not helping your case of claiming vaporware. If anything, you are helping CIG find bugs,because you know that they will see it!

    So goodluck on the war, although you may want to go do another take on “The Art of War”.

    Seems like you are getting rusty.

  43. I would like to bet he isnt as good as people might think and/or hes not a good fit for a German team based in Germany. His resume doesn’t suggest he is an especially smart guy.

    It will be interesting to see how this pans out though and I may be doing him a disservice which someone that know more about his skill set than me will be able to highlight.

  44. My god… Dan Tracy is gone? He was one of the few devs I really watched back before the feature creep goals. Well before the $23 million mark.

    No shit Chris is throwing out everyone that is needed to finish the game. Derek knows, I suspected and waited for confirmation, but shouldn’t people wake up by now?

    Chris keeps asking for more money because he is a pathetic manager. He wastes money like there is no tomorrow. Then there is other “stuff.”

    At this point, I have almost zero sympathy or pity for those that did not attempt to get their refund. Derek has been warning people, and even if he didn’t, there were plenty of warning signs. In my case, it was the departure of 2 producers and constant sales. I also never forgot the failure that was Freelancer.

    I don’t expect white knights, cultists, or zealots to realize how much of a loss Dan Tracy is. It may take dismissing Ben Lesnick (unlikely) to even make them begin to budge.

    Now I expect CIG to release the Crucible repair ship within the next 2-3 weeks, bring back quantity-limited sales of Phoenix Constellations, maybe separate P-72 Archimedes sales, just in time for the Nov anniversary sale. A wild card would be a “luxury sale” with the 890 jump making a return.

    Comment readers should get their refunds now if they haven’t.

  45. So I’ve been following all this with great interest. A little bit of background. I’ve been playing space sims since Elite on the Spectrum 48k so quite a while. When I first heard about SC I was very excited….I had been waiting for Elite 4 for half of my life and CR seemed to promise exactly what I was looking for. I was also suspicious of David Braben’s Kickstarter when it started as at the time it seemed to be launched on the coat tails of SC’s KS campaign. I had read many interviews over the years about Bell/Braben’s fallout and the fact that Elite 4 had become like Duke Nukem, made me less than eager to back their campaign. I missed the whole WC thing but played Privateer 2 and quite liked that. I backed the original SC concept/vision and talked 2 friends into backing.
    As the project drifted,shifted and their vision changed one of my friends wanted out and inquired innocently enough about selling his account or getting a refund. He was instantly flamed,insulted and banned on the CIG forums by some of their more toxic forum members. Anyway, he requested a refund and got it….and as far as he is concerned the whole concept and community is poison. Meanwhile…I didn’t like the direction CIG was taking. SC started to be shaping up like the X-Factor tv show….all spin and PR and no content. Hangar module came and went and Arena Commander was fun for maybe a few hours but the HUD, controls…basically everything were so far off the mark that I just stopped logging in and patching 20GB or so. During this time I found myself more drawn to Elite:Dangerous and their very structured development cycle. I eventually backed at what I considered a high price for Premium Beta and it was totally the game I was looking for and continues to develop and grow in a professional way.
    When Derek raised his issues over SC I had to agree that it also confirmed some of the issues I had with the game (or lack of). The campaign had become more like a pyramid scheme of selling virtual goods rather than developing a game. If L. Ron Hubbard was alive I am sure he would be very impressed with the model CIG have used. I watched the CitizenCon presentation and could not believe the overacting at the start of the presentation…I also felt I didn’t really see anything different from what I had seen before. I’m aware Derek has a polarized reputation on the web but to be honest I am kind of thankful he has flagged some of these issues that are a major concern for backers. I WAS going to ask for a refund but as I pledged so little (right at the beginning of the campaign) I want to see where it is going to go. I think CIG will be forced to release something with acceptable content soon….be it a stripped down SQ42/Star Marine or this Baby PU/Crusader module people are talking about. It’s interesting when I look back at David Braben’s ED pitch I was like “He is NEVER gonna make that game. Sure we have been waiting so long for it already.” Yet here it is and even though it’s not without it’s faults and is somewhat stripped down I believe they practice a very efficient development cycle. Even though some of their Alpha/Beta buy-in prices were extremely high you don’t see them sticking the arm in and literally fleecing their backers for virtual spaceships that are a “one time only offer”. I really would like Chris Roberts to take a step back from everything and examine what he is doing. I loved his initial pitch but now I, along with many other people I’m sure, feel disappointed and let down by him. If it is at all possible for them I think they should dial it back to the original vision and deliver what people backed in the beginning. I didn’t pay £25 to watch tv shows/competitions and basically fluff devoid of content to stoke their virtual sales. I paid for a space sim and I am pretty sure I could go back to play I-WAR 2 or something like that and I know it’s going to be 10 times the game the SC will end up being…if it ever gets completed. As a final thought CR should do a special of his “10 for the Chairman” show, where he tries to answer some of the “difficult” questions surrounding where they hell this game is going. That is one CIG video I would be interested in watching.

  46. Do you think some day they going to reach billion fund? And become bigger than Microsoft and Apple combined? Is more people backing this or existing fanboy spend more?

  47. I know how to burn their JPEG ships: If one day CIG go down, those designs will be sold to other studios, and eventually show up in other games, that’s how the thing can be burned.

  48. I’m sure this game will come out sometime (like you say, AAA games takes a few years to develop) and it may be good when it does come out. I’m over $1000 and I don’t see much reason to panic either.

    HOWEVER!!! CIG are the masters of “carrot on a stick”. Saying just enough for everyone to think stuff will be out next week and do everything they can to keep the income stream alive which is starting to hurt their credability. I’m one of those who originally pledged Colonel package and later upgraded to Super Hornet because it was supposed to be the über dog fighter – since then they’ve come up with two bigger, more expensive über fighters… pretty soon we’ll be able to pledge for a Bagal for $5000! And the entire “no more LTI” “ok LTI on concepts” “ok LTI on variants” and so on. If they could just stop with that entire stuff they’d have alot more credibility as far as I’m concerned.

    But the one good thing about this entire “Derek Smart vs CIG” is that they’ve seemed to be more focused on getting something out to us, like them scraping the small module releasing and aiming for a big release of 2.0 “soon” which one could see as a way for them to show everyone that “look, we’re making the game DS said we couldn’t make”.

  49. Robert: Thanks for saying that Rob. And accountability is coming. Not only are we filing both criminal and civil action, I’m also working on a blog (here is a WIP pdf export) where everything is going to be documented.

  50. Ante: I have decided to make an example out of the leaders. I am working on a blog that’s in progress and which will include a lot more info. In the meantime, here is a PDF export of the latest WIP version.

  51. I want to state that I am a Star Citizen backer up front. I am a “whale” as you put it, so obviously my view on this is going to be colored by my own perceptions. That’s just reality, right? Yet, with that said, Derek, you have the RIGHT to express your opinions. Anyone trying to shut you up through attacks upon your social media outlets should themselves be banned. It is through the misty haze of opinion that we arrive at conclusions. I may not agree with your opinion but I did fight and have suffered so that they could and would be voiced (paraplegic veteran, service related). That people should through various unethical means use tools designed to help deter hate speech etc., to stop your voice is wrong. To all the backers of Star Citizen who have contributed in this kind of action STOP. This man has a right to his own voice and opinion, the same as you. Argue logic with logic, argue facts with facts and opinion with opinion, but never take the stupid and LAZY route of simply avoiding the argument, and trying to silence dissenting opinions. I fought and lost the use of my legs for YOU and Derek…. be worthy of that loss. Understand that speech is only free if we allow dissenting opinions. Derek may be right, or he may be wrong, but he has the same right as YOU to express his views. I am ashamed of YOU right now, not Derek whom I disagree with. Stop and be civil, be decent, and above all be right in your actions.

  52. Re: twitlonger post and “threat assessment” – What. The. Fucking. Fuck?

    Despite your history of flaming, i can imagine crap like that probably isn’t a lot of fun to deal with. But for the rest of us, the nutjobs are quickly becoming a weekly sitcom. “Threat assessment”… wonder what’s next.

  53. Chris: Wherever you got the [url=]freeware game from[/url], should contain the full game manual in PDF format.

  54. Rules at Kickstarter :

    The Estimated Delivery Date is the creator’s estimate. The date listed on each reward is the creator’s estimate of when they will provide the reward — not a guarantee to fulfill by that date. The schedule may change as the creator works on the project. We ask creators to think carefully, set a date they feel confident they can work toward, and communicate with backers about any changes.

    Kickstarter doesn’t offer refunds […]

    You can change or cancel your pledge at any time before the project’s funding deadline (with one exception)[…] Once the project has been funded, you can only cancel or change your pledge by making special arrangements directly with the creator.

    Neither the ETA nor the refunding is mandatory to CIG.
    A Game that size takes time. As the project evolved, the ETA couldn`t be met. Thats just logical. Look at development time of other titles. Take GTA V, take Duke Nukem Forever, take Starcraft 2, try Battlecruiser 3000 AD. Every of this title had far more time than CIG. Actually, did you ever saw anyone make such an efford to calm everyone? Did you ever see EA talking to it customer every week about their progress?

    Just relax folk, and enjoy the ride

  55. I actually want to play battlecruiser 3000 AD but i fail to find any manual. Can you provide it to me?

  56. I noticed you have escalated things on your twitter. Can’t say I blame you, considering how far others work to cyberharass you on a daily basis. If the reddit thing was fair, the sub that attacks you would have also been shutdown. The fact it still remains, and is still home to plenty of attacks against you… is totally one-sided. I suspect a conflict-of-interest from the reddit admin side. Though I’ve also heard the reddit admins are hardly known for being fair or righteous, such as celebrity photo leaks.

    I don’t know much, if anything proper about defamation, cyber harassing, how people actually gain the identifying info to dox another (beyond the obvious self revealing), but I really hope you manage to put them in their place. The lengths Star Citizen supporters have gone is way beyond acceptable. Cultists or zealots are still too nice to describe them.

    I’ll be honest, and state that I also fear being doxed in some shape or form. I was around to see the Mechwarrior Online fiasco and how a toxic community manager doxed a player outright. I’m sure CIG can do the same, if not go further. It wouldn’t be smart, but they haven’t done anything smart lately.

  57. Ive just ask for mine as well. Im over 2000 in and have been waiting a week for a response so far.

  58. Another week, another development update for week of Oct 18. “Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 & Star Marine”.

    So many interesting details in those bullet points. But wait… lets look at something from the week of July 5…

    I see lots of bullet points for the week of July 5. CIG is making progress. We should be happy. A game is being made, and this list of blockers is proof that the team is doing the best they can to fix and release a product for us.

    3 months have gone by. Have people forgotten that Star Marine is not out yet? Illfonic’s work was nearing completion? Since when did bullet points become a sign of making progress? The only progress is the 1.3 AC patch, and it doesn’t even introduce new ships let alone Pirate Swarm coop. The Drake Herald ($80) was supposed to be nearly complete, and since it’s a single pilot ship, should be pretty easy to implement.

    Once again, CIG is simply maintaining a pretty image of progress. Who knows how much money is being spent to maintain this image.

    Bonus points: What the hell happened to the Xian Khartu ($150)? That ship was originally sold at the end of LTI sale in Nov 2013. Next thing you know, Chris didn’t think the ship was “alien” enough, and scrapped it in order to remake it more alien. I remember seeing it as kind of flyable.

    New concept sale on June 20th 2014 –

    Yeah, Chris and Ben. Please keep making more new JPEGs. Your cultists will lick up everything you give them, actual progress be damned. I just see money thrown away on a daily basis. I hope a few more people wake up, and soon.

    Such a shame that people I once respected, who fought to give LTI to everyone, are the same white knights that keep saying 5-6 years are needed and we should just be patient.

  59. I get it now. Has nothing to do with CIG and everything to do with Star Citizen White Knights cultists. Thanks for clarifying.

  60. MKDAWUSS: Nothing much left to be said really. Everyone expected that she was going to quit. It’s all about “look at me” drama. She’s an “actress” remember?

  61. Maybe he couldn’t, but I could. I hold 5 alt accounts, which means there are at least 5 registered forum users and 5 backers less. Fortunately nobody else had this idea and so it is very unlikely that the numbers differ more than this.

  62. I was hoping this game wouldn’t turn out along the lines of MWO online, it took them two years past the original release date to get 25% of the original content promised in their kick starter.

  63. On this week’s “Around The Verse” ( ) at about the 1:45 mark they have a few laughs about “The CitCon Speech”. Do you (or, really, your sources) have any more information about that? That bit in ATV seemed like another bizarre addition/reference to it – there’s not even any clarification involved.

    I know, I should probably just forget about it as there’s probably no “there!” there anymore (if there was to begin with)…

  64. kxmode: That part of my comment is addressing the crazy cultists who have been conducting protracted attacks (here is the latest) against me. Nothing to do with the Star Citizen issue itself. Point being, them attacking me isn’t going to make me stop. Instead, it’s just going to solidify my resolve.

  65. You hit the nail on the head VON , Now if only people could wake up and see through the haze of pipe dreams CIG has been selling them . Latest concept sale The Endeavour was a classic example of CIG misleading and false advertising strategy aimed at milking its cult . That ship idea was cooked up in a pipe dream over a few weeks its pure Hollywood, no game designer are engineer on this planet would promise all that in a MMO ship . No way on earth a ship like that is going to be able to play a part in a large MMO as they described it .That tech is at least 10 years away if not longer

  66. Derek, your efforts against CIG appear to have evolved into a full blown witch hunt. Language like…

    “I will never – EVER – quit this fight. Even amid death threats I have received and which I have shared online, I will see this to the very bitter END. Anyone who was around during The Great Flamewar of the nineties, and which mostly played out on Usenet and a few online communities, knows that I’m NOT the sort of person to be trifled with. I have absolutely NO concept of the term “SURRENDER” let alone “QUIT”. Especially when I know that I am onto something.”


    “I am going to burn ALL their JPEG ships to ashes. There will be NOTHING left by the time I am done. NOTHING.”

    …don’t sound like someone who simply wants accountability and transparency. Those words sound like vengeance and someone on a crusade to destroy the company by any means necessary. If I recall correctly the demands you made of CIG were simple.

    1. A full forensics accounting of CIG’s finances
    2. A firm release date
    3. Refunds based on v1.0 of the TOS starting in November

    The two statements above, especially burning all their JPEG ships to ashes has nothing to do with the three stated demands. It sounds like you’re descending into obsessive madness.

    I am aware of “This is a $93m+ crowd-funded project with ZERO accountability & headed by shady execs; some of who had ties to Gizmondo, a company that suddenly collapsed, after being found to be a major global money laundering operation.” However, this statement doesn’t explain away the obsessive crusader-like aura you appear to be projecting in your recent words.

    If you would be so kind, could you please explain? Thank you.

  67. Von: That’s a fantastic synopsis and is precisely what I’m thinking as well. Though I don’t believe that SQ42 will be completed in 2016. At least not without chopping it.

    I don’t believe that either Star Citizen or SQ42 will see the light of day in the form it was pitched, let alone if ever. But maybe that’s just me.

  68. This was exactly the way I felt. That + the referral scheme and you can see red flags everywhere.
    I had request for refund the monday following CitCon week-end.
    I’ve just received the anwser today, so I guess it’s about a 2 weeks time before you get your.
    I guess I won’t have the refund since I’m not kickstarter backer, but they responded me in a very polite way, asking also for the reasons.
    I hope you’ll get your refund.

    Don’t worry, We can reboot the SC adventure , only this time if it goes through Crowdfunding, it would be nice to peer it with Crowd-developping as well. Public and transparent about funds would be a good begining.
    Meanwhile, have you tried Elite Dangerous? They are doing exactly what CIG should have done : releasing the game slowly but surely, imputing new interesting contents on every updates.
    I’m really enjoying the game.

  69. I’ve asked for a refund, however they have not replied for more than 3 weeks now! not even denied my request. as this is not just $275 (you can * 15) I consider this as they do have some financial issues.

  70. I’ve played EVE online for near 11 years it would’ve been longer but I took an 18 month break so where do you get this assumption that we will only play it for 2 years? I have WOW friends who’ve played similar amounts of time and WOT/WT friends who’ve played since earliest stages of development/access most of us have played early access and understand what and why it is you know. The earliest playable module was released 2 years ago roughly you honestly think another 5 years for it to be feature complete? or bug free because back to my experiences EVE is still bugged now and tbh I can’t think of any games without bugs so I don’t see the point of what you’re alluding to here?
    I’m pretty sure English isn’t your first language and I’m just not sure if I’m missing some obvious point that may be lost in translation is all

  71. Well, the refund has been completed with no fuss whatsoever. They did it rather diligently and quickly that I have no complaints actually. I wonder if anyone is going to step up and actually go through the motions of filing a lawsuit. I’m of the opinion “I have my money back; it’s no longer my concern” but I know there are people who probably poured more money into this game than I did and probably can’t really afford it who are being swindled.

  72. But then when a lawsuit officially starts, the masses will know even less since there will presumably be a gag order on the case, and everyone “in the know” can’t share what they know to the outside public.

  73. So after feeling around a bit, I think that I can glean what CIG’s current battle plan is:

    They are going to pour everything they’ve got left into finishing SG42. Everything else is getting put on hold until this is done. Total silence about their finances is going to be maintained so as to retain the loyalty of the whales, because they’re going need that income to finish the job. The important thing to remember here is that this just might work. If they can, indeed, continue to sell enough pictures of spaceships to get the bare-bones SG42 out the door then they’re saved (or so they think). Meaning that this strategy may just work… sort of.

    As a single-player game, SG42 is not beholden to any of the complexities of MMO design and, maybe even more importantly, it does not have to deliver ANY of the pay-to-win spaceships. They don’t need a PU, they don’t need big 64bit maps, and in fact they don’t need much more than what they’ve already got with Arena Commander. All they need from to make “Wing Commander VI” is some live actors & mocap work… and hey, look what CIG has been showing off lately.

    So this is where the win/lose paradox comes into play. Finishing SG42, which is something that honestly won’t require developing any new technologies, would be a massive propaganda victory for CIG. They will take it, put it up on a pedestal and say “Look, you see? Derek Smart was wrong! The game WILL be finished!” and all the White Knights, fanbois and (most importantly) whales will take it as divine providence. They will go crazy on the internet and, even more disturbing, they will find this as justification to throw even more money at CIG than ever before. Which is important, because CIG is going to need it.

    “Is that so bad?” the fans will say, “after all this does mean the game will someday be finished, right?” What will be completely overlooked/forgotten/deliberately pushed out of the consciousness of the fanbois is that CIG will have spent $90mil to make a game that should not have cost more than $10mil to $15mil at most, ergo SG42, aka Wing Commander VI. Never mind where the rest of the money went, dear fanboi, because it is time to open you wallets once again to help CIG finish the project. Another $500mil should do the trick, I think. Or not. Come back and ask us again in a few more years after we’ve blown through all of that, too.

    And you know what? They’ll get it. That’s the sad part. They will most definitely try to leverage SG42 into a wave of donations that will make everything that they’ve gotten so far look like chump change… and it will work. Because Roberts understand these people better than we do. They don’t care if SC ends up costing a billion dollars. They will pay it, and happily, so long as they believe it will be finished some day. That’s why, I believe, CIG is now focusing on one module at time instead of trying to do it all at once. They know that so long as they can get SOMETHING out there every couple of years then they can keep the money flowing in.

    Never mind that that most of that money is going to waste. Never mind that, in the end, CIG will end up spending five or six times what SC should actually cost to make. That won’t even register in their brains. Because at this point their “post purchase rationalization” has reached the point where all that matters now is being RIGHT. Getting ripped off means nothing. All they want, more than anything else, is to be able to someday say “Nya nya, we were right, Derek Smart was wrong, we rule, you’re all poopy-heads” and they don’t care if they’re giving that speech from the top of the cardboard box that they’re living in after they sold their house for more spaceship pictures. Never mind that they will be bragging about what is basically the F35 of video games.

    So the question is: Can anything be done to stop this? Because, as twisted as this plan is, it will work. They’ll get their billion dollars, spend 10% of it on making a game and 90% on champagne filled hot tubs, and then call it a victory because, yeah, eventually it did get finished.

    Ideally, the best outcome for everyone would be a lawsuit shutting them down early and then another studio – a more reputable studio that knows how to handle money responsibly – takes over and finishes the game properly, on time, and under budget. But I don’t see that happening. Right now the best we can hope for is that litigation drags it down in flames, earning the eternal hatred of the whales, even while saving their homes from foreclosure. The worst is what I’ve just described – the slow milking of the whales over many more years for many, many more millions via a strategy of carefully controlled partial-completions, timed perfectly to raise excessive income far above & beyond what would actually be needed to do the job right.

    Derek, you have said before that Chris has learned nothing about finance over the years. What I fear now is that Chris finally has learned something about finance… something really, really evil.

  74. No no, Thorne, you must be getting something mixed up. As a lot of magazines point out after the CitizenCon: CR assured people with the shown material yet again that they are on track and everything will be delivered as pitched. There is nothing strange going on, regular business.

    In fact, if any, you should double your pledge, simply because of all the uproar, as the general Subreddit tone suggests.

  75. Good for you. I bought my Freelancer back in Nov 2012, 3 years ago, one of the original ships, and I still can’t fly it in that buggy, boring Arena Commander. A tech demo that takes up more room in your hdd than almost any game.

  76. Tenandra: Lots of good indie space comes coming out. Ascent (Early Access), Rebel Galaxy (Early Access), Infinite Battlescape (Kickstarter), Everspace etc

  77. Speaking of “tipping point”, that was the whole reason why that person did it because when I broke the news in my blog back in July, everyone said I was making stuff up. And of course, she was forced to admit it out in the open right there at CitCon.

  78. I have to agree with Von, on this one. Your professional attitude towards the whole fiasco and unwillingness to concede has convinced me that you are a legit dude.
    Now when it has become clear to more people that this ship will sink I do not think it is necessary to lower yourself on the same level as those who you critize in a manner of “I was right all along now I rub it in your face”.
    They will notice sooner or later that you have been right, there is no need for these personal attacks really.

  79. Yes i am aware and I agree, about his ego, and as was stated in the article that decision not to talk to you was not a clever move, and could / may have placed a lot of other peoples money at risk. I guess from one point you have to think if this fails as you feel it might then Chris is going to hit rock bottom it will define him in history wing commander will not be his legacy, and for that reason i see no point in pushing this any further than you have things have now been set in motion its surely now a wait and see what happens event.
    Ultimately, we all would like to see the game made, i am fortunate in that i see money on kick starter projects as dead money so when i became a backer i figured well it might work..

    leaving on a positive note thanks for the article, i am off to buy a space game as Ascent looks like a game i might enjoy, how did i miss it?

  80. That was a really good article, it relieved some of my fears and reinforced others.

    I may not have experience with building video games (I once wrote pong is basic, is that enough? =P) but it’s been pretty clear that Star Citizen is either not talking about the problems they face, or they just spin it into a positive. James Hicks’ article is basically what I’ve come to expect from an honest and open developer, and I’ve been waiting for months to hear something like it from CIG. Instead amid radically growing concerns, we’ve gotten little more than marketing fluff, Chris’s 8hour rant to the escapist, and Sandi crying. Hell, they often try to sound like a non-profit, so what’s with all these trade secrets and competitors somehow keeping them from being honest?

    I am still willing to reconsider the viability of this project, but so far CIG and the fanboy defense squad have done a truly horrible job dealing with concerns.

  81. This is strange one.

    Do you think Derek put Skye Roberts on IMDB? (

    Do you think it was Derek that makes the claim: “Did her first audition when she was 2 weeks old.”?

    Give you a hint at who put Skye on IMDB. It is the same person that lists all the TNGS and ATV shows as TV shows on IMDB. Miss Hollywood herself–Sandra Roberts. Just because Sandi was never anything more than a tits and ass in any kind of film, doesn’t mean that her daughter can’t be more. Skye just needs to be force feed the actor’s life. I’m just surprised that Skye wasn’t front and center in Toddlers and Tiaras before that show got run off the air.

    But the bottom line–Chris and Sandra did everything they could to keep their marriage a secret from the backers. Linking the pictures of Sandi and Skye together was the tipping point in ending that lie.

  82. We seem to be in the “lets go quiet phase” or “bury in under the carpet” at the moment.

    After all the threats and the post about the escapist article(s) and Derek, we have had the next con in Manchester and as far as CIG seem to be concerned it is business as usual. More ships, more fluff and no obvious action on the legal threats to Derek and The Escapist etc….

    There is a false consensus effect (a form/similar condition to psychological projection) evident in the way many fans react to any suggestion that CR et Al are either mistaken in what they can deliver, have delivered or are remotely capable of doing anything wrong.

    In any project the project plan, deliverables, milestones, resources and finances matter.

    It is slight of hand to shift attention from one to the other and naïve of fans not to see what is going on.

    Why would it be so hard for CIG to post something approaching a fan friendly Project Plan on the website. then we could see the progression and changes to the plan as they happen (in some form) ?

    Finance disclosure is one thing, but if you are going to post progress videos etc etc a simplified project plan would be far less resource intensive and yield a lot more actual info rather than marketing spin.

  83. Tenandra: I agree. However, you ARE aware that I tried SEVERAL times to get together with CR and hash out a discussion, right? So it’s all on him, not me. His ego gets the better of common sense.

  84. The reasons is simple. They act like they are cultivating a religious cult, not a community. As for Ben, nobody even pays any attention to him anyway. He’s patently clueless.

  85. Kris: It’s rubbish. Nobody “brought their daughter” into anything. Please STOP spreading that bullshit. You do know better.

    If you fail to get the message, that’s on you. My past and present statements remain consistent and untainted with bullshit. I have made it clear that all White Knights are abusive haters who act like they are in a cult. Again, stop spreading bullshit because that’s how disinformation works.

  86. Von: I don’t want them to fail. Destroying their JPEG ships is a tongue-in-cheek comment targeted at those crazy White Knight whales who keep buying PICTURES OF SHIPS for a game that doesn’t exist. 🙂

  87. I wonder if this is a war that will save or kill crowdfunding…

    On the bright side, anyone that doesn’t support the Church of Chris is either a troll, lap dog, pawn, another Derek Smart, or my favorite – deserter.

    I’m just itching to read the next blog. Maybe CIG will respond in kind and create another massive blunder.

  88. It’s an excellent article that Both Chris Roberts and yourself Derek would not hurt if you both read and digested the contents. I think the views expressed are balanced, not spiteful and i completely agree on his point that watching the great game developers of our time fight and get lawyers involved is not nice. It poisions the atmosphere, and benefits no one. Perehaps its time to make the points you are both invested in, but drop the lawyers, and the personal attacks. Lets see what happens your predictions are clear, Roberts are also firmming up. Lets wait and see?

  89. Ill try again then.. too bad i didnt archive it somewhere but the gist of what i tried to say is still fresh in my mind.

    Here goes:
    When this all started i was glad someone was trying to get accountability and force more openness from CIG. Yes they have weekly reports on just about every subject, but key information is always held behind. Stuff like the 64 bit migration (crysis is an engine for small zones, not for environments that span billions of km’s) and the feature creep caused by the multiplayer environments that were planned as stretchgoals caused me to worry.. a LOT.

    The release of the endeavour specs only strengthened my feeling that features were being added without the proper gameplay or balancing elements. With the current player/zone limit -> who will make use of the endeavour? and in what way?? I can’t think of anything else than it being a huge multiplayer lobby, not something you can fly and play with at the start.
    The gameplay just isn’t there.. and won’t be till they balance all the 1-3 player ship multiplayer. And that will probably take a long time.

    So yes.. i do agree with your worries and more openness from CIG would have been something good, for the game and the community. i was applauding your challenge of CIG and your demands, although some of those demands were a bit over the top.

    Lately though your change of tone and your methods have been worrisome. The valid points you may have had have been lost in keyboard warrior nonsense from both sides. Your siding with the goons on SA (come on.. everybody knows they just poke a beehive with a hot stick to see what happens) and several toxic elements have diluted your arguments.

    If you had stuck with your original points and kept the discourse civil no amount of white knight bullshit would have brought you down. At the moment though your actions and tone of voice resonate a sense of wrongness with me. As i’m a lurker (not active as pro or anti SC) this might not matter much to you, but after several discussions with friends and colleagues who are following the current debacle i’ve come to realise that my current opinions echo that of most of the “normals” i speak to.

    Everyone agrees that you had valid points at the start, and almost everyone stated that somewhere in the past few weeks you lost their support. Now this may not be important to you, but you are one of the few SC critical voices out there. When you stepped over the line (somehow i’m reminded of tropic thunder.. “never go full retard!”) and brought the toxicity of goons/sa and several other individuals into the fray you started detracting from the original argument. Thus increasing the risk of people abandoning the discussion and leaving you with a small incrowd of people who agree with current methods.

    What i’m seeing now is the same as i’m seeing in politics or the media when discussions become polarised. The general consensus with the population will be “two sides picking a fight, nobody is listening. We don’t care!’

    At the moment i’m just worried that the toxicity in the current debate will corner you as someone who can be ignored. And with your demise we will have lost all chances of getting true insights into the project.

    This is also happening in my surroundings on the SC discussions. Due to the tone and methods people have started to loose interest.. and after they loose interest you loose their support. As i’ve stated you’ve lost the support of most of the people i know who follow this.. and you have lost mine as well.

    Perhaps, if the actions and tone of the debate return to civil levels you can regain it.The ascent dev article is a good example of the way this debate should have went.

    I’ll leave you with a saying that we have in holland: “If you dip your feet in manure.. you will start to smell”..

    lately you’ve been dipping a lot. And i hope you will get clean again. It will be for the good of us all :/

    (archived this time.. for the offchance that your social media monitor bounces this. I’m not in the mood to retype it again :))

  90. Hi Derek,
    Just did. It is pretty sad that they are going this route. I will be honest one of the reasons I still bother with this is that when presented with facts/info you re-evaluate. The SC people never do when presented with anything. That is what is most troubling about this – the 100% blind loyalty.

    To that end – the description from Ben about the expenses etc is such bullshit. How could anyone actually believe that? Office space alone is based off of going rates not on what CIG can pay – or they go somewhere else! Same with everything else desks etc – buy in bulk get a better discount. To simply say otherwise is just well illogical on its face.

    Oh and the other thing is – they know exactly how much SC has – there is a little counter there on the corner for 92 million dollars! I just cant fathom that explanation – it is nothing short of bullshit and false on its face. Yet Ye Faithful say thanks Ben that explains everything.

    Another sad thing is that it appears to them you have corrupted SC and are some kind deviant. Because the name DS they automatically start shutting them down. I have never experienced anything like it before.

    So someone says bad things about the game – get over it – it happens. I am just shocked at this. You would expect the CEO to reach out to people and say look let him say what he wants – He is allowed to do it and now lets prove him wrong! But again here logic fails.

    just sad when people cant act like adults instead of- the universe is at trouble and DS is the cause.

  91. I look forward to this going to some form of arbitration. Because I’m really, REALLY looking forward to someone neutral going through the facts and go “hey, why you gotta go throw this gentleman out of your game, that’s anti consumerist as hell, not to mention when are you gonna fix your stuff so it can be called a proper game?!” to them and go “hey, when you gotta show us some actual proof of something and stop spreading a foggy sense of ‘the project is doomed!’ like a cult leader?” to you. Because this entire drama really needs a neutral person ticking in boxes of what’s facts, what’s real and what is relevant. Because all I’m seeing are the extreme sides of the argument and those are too clouded by personal interests and agendas and that’s annoying as hell.

    Btw, did you see the latest INN vid with Disco? At about 50 minutes in Disco talks about “trolls” in general but you in particular and confirms what I speculated on, you bringing their daughter into this is what pissed them off at CIG, and reading between the lines it’s also the reason why that letter from Chris about the Escapist was so … irrational.

    Another point that bugs me is that you put everyone that defends CIG in the “White Knight” category. And when arguing on Twitter you say “they have done this” and mixing what WK have done themselves with what CIG have done, kind of confusing since it can make people think that everyone that defends CIG IS CIG and CIG should be held responsible for what White Knights do. Maybe it’s on purpose you do that, maybe it’s the Twitter character limit, I dunno, but it bugs me nonetheless. Because I see shades of grey in this entire thing – no dark knight and no white knights, just gamers of different views, agendas and morals.

    But in the end I just want a game to come out of this so I can play…

  92. It is now official; I have placed in a request for a refund for nearly the $2000 I put into this scam with the banking institution standing by to just simply pull the money from Cloud Imperium Games if they don’t comply with the refund request.

    It’s a shame really; I was really looking forward to this game but CitizenCon 2015 was unimpressive and seemed to scream “run as far away from this game as you possibly can.”

  93. Derek, I’m a backer and just found out about this mess. Is there any solid proof that supports your claim?

  94. I know you’re trying to be funny here, but you’re kind of invalidating all of your earlier claims of “not wanting them to fail.” And this whole “tough guy” routine is what I’d expect from a 15 year old fanboi, not from a 40+ year old adult. Yes, we know you don’t care about the White Knights. You’ve told us that in every entry of this blog. Ironic, no? Yet the more times you verbally Hulk-out the more you are giving weight to the White Knight claim that this is just an ego battle between you & Chris. The more often you spew invective (as opposed to just staying objective) the more you are lowering yourself to their level.

    I guess what I’m saying is that maybe you should switch to decaff. Having a more professional attitude than your detractors has gained you a good chunk of people willing to hear what you have to say so far. Stick with that – it works.

  95. Wow, the White Knights reciting from their rebuttals script by the 2nd comment. I ask this, now, in complete honesty and without exaggeration: Do these guys seriously do anything except sit around all day, patrolling the entire internet, for signs of dissent?

    Because I’m thinking they need to stop being Roberts’ unpaid minions and instead go make the big bucks working for the NSA or something. That’s a marketable skill to the alphabet agencies. They should get paid for that kind of obsessive behavior, y’know?

  96. How would this damage their careers? Actors like Hamill and Oldman are certainly not going to lose much sleep over a company they did voice over work for being exposed as liars and cheats. Things like that don’t tarnish your reputation in Hollywood. The only way they could be harmed is if Robert’s check doesn’t clear. If that does happen to them it will be because they didn’t pay attention to what happened to Kevin Costner.

  97. In case you all were wondering why my Twitter account was on lockdown these past 24hrs. I set it to protected. Below is what I just posted on Twitter.

    To my 5K+ followers….

    Star Citizen fanatics, in addition to trying to burn my social media accounts in order to silence me, have orchestrated a protracted attack designed to harass and defame myself, my friends and my many social media followers.

    Even if they succeed in burning my social media accounts, it will be of NO consequence.

    They already succeeded in getting my TwitchTV channel kicked off-line two weeks ago during CitCon in order to kill my pre-planned commentary on the Star Citizen “Citizens Conned” event in Manchester. They did this by spamming the TwitchTV support queue with bogus reports, resulting in a 24hr auto-ban of the account, thus killing the planned commentary.

    This week alone, they’ve had my Reddit account shadow-banned using dodgy and bullshit “doxing” reports which they doctored and sent to sympathetic Reddit admins. When you have a community of over 700K+ of which a sizable number are fanatics, you can expect to find them and/or their friends everywhere. It’s like Scientology all over again.

    And now they’re trying to burn my Twitter account using the same methods.

    With unwavering certainty I stand firmly on my opinion that this Star Citizen project is now an epic scam of global proportion. And it should concern all of us in gaming. That aside from the fact that recent developments have squarely moved it into the realms of MLM shenanigans; making it nothing but a desperate money grab.

    I also know that I am not alone in this opinion. With over 700K+ backers, even 25% being White Knights, means that I am outnumbered.

    But despite that, I will never – EVER – quit this fight. Even amid death threats I have received and which I have shared online, I will see this to the very bitter END. Anyone who was around during The Great Flamewar of the nineties, and which mostly played out on Usenet and a few online communities, knows that I’m NOT the sort of person to be trifled with. I have absolutely NO concept of the term “SURRENDER” let alone “QUIT”. Especially when I know that I am onto something.

    A lot of these fools don’t know me and those who do, fail to realize that I have survived almost 30 yrs in this industry out of sheer passion, tenacity & resilience. People simply don’t scare me. They never did.

    I will win this, simply because I know that I am RIGHT. There is absolutely NO way on this God’s Earth whereby RSI/CIG will EVER get away with this. They have NO choice but to come clean about this project and be held accountable for what I now believe to be the early stages of a sudden and catastrophic collapse of this project.

    The White Knight minions who are behaving in a cult-like manner, are largely inconsequential to the big picture. They’re just annoying.

    This is a $93m+ crowd-funded project with ZERO accountability & headed by shady execs; some of who had ties to Gizmondo, a company that suddenly collapsed, after being found to be a major global money laundering operation. This is the subject of my next detailed blog, currently awaiting legal clearance prior to publication.

    It is due to things like this that I have been taking legal action – with MY own money – in order to get them to provide financials as promised, so that the backers (those who aren’t in a cult) are assured that the project can in fact be completed and that the crowd-funded funds have in fact been spent ON this project and NOTHING else as per clear FTC guidelines.

    Instead they’ve attacked me; and sent out messages designed to send their mindless horde of Star Citizen White Knights to attack me and others online. In so doing, there is NO corner of the Internet where a question of accountability for this project, doesn’t evoke my name. They made me the bogey man in an attempt to continue to deflect attention away from the tough questions now being asked since my first July blog. And they continue to attack ANYONE who even voices ANY sort of dissent against this project.

    And these incessant attacks have been orchestrated by the White Knights heavily vested in this pipe dream and who are so fearful of ONE man, that they are willing to continue casting the Star Citizen community in a poor light in order to achieve their goals (nobody has ANY clue what that is btw).

    I am going to burn ALL their JPEG ships to ashes. There will be NOTHING left by the time I am done. NOTHING.

    All I did was write a series of blogs. Then they declared war.

    Now we’re at war.

  98. valrond: It’s part of the disinformation that they’re spreading around now in order to trick people into spending money on the game.

  99. I agree with this, sadly.

    Even if they can’t control the burn rate. (citcon claimed they’re up to 270 employees!) I could still imagine CIG taking on massive debt just to get some form of SQ42 out, hoping there are enough new customers left to pay it back and to keep the ship sales coming in. If there’s no lawsuit or revolt the amount of time and money needed can just keep expanding forever at the expense of the consumer.

    If Chris Roberts hasn’t shown the responsibility to admit his mistakes so far, why should we ever expect him to?

  100. Hey Derrick, since you are so concerned with helping people get out….why don’t you post on the Twitter of the poor actors who are damaging their careers by being a part of SQ42? You should save them too.

  101. dsmart: Yeah, I understood that just fine. I’m asking how is that not the fault of the people in charge of this crowdfunding campaign?

    I guess it really boils down to; Do you believe Sandi got the community hooked on – donating to/campaigning for – this game through dumb luck and inexperience, or was that just the plan from the start and she’s almost criminally good at her job?

    I’ve gone back and forth on that issue, though after the escapist article I lean towards the latter.

    The first time I read the Star Citizen kickstarter page, I must have glossed over the parts saying this was going to be a small game (Vision 1.0). I focused on all the big promises for an all-encompassing space dream game that would revolutionize PC gaming… so.. I have a hard time believing they’ve ever planned to stop taking money.

    The worst part of that is any idiot since Star Trek first aired could have come up with the idea for this dream game. The problems always been “how do you build it?”. It seems like Elite came to kickstarter with a plan in hand. Meanwhile, years later, Chris is still doing R&D for the tech and coming up with the plan as he goes along. The year before the kickstarter should have been spent building the company, planning for the game, securing any outside funding, and setting realistic timelines for possible budgets. Instead Chris apparently just made a video showing off how cool CryEngine looks and maybe wrote the script for a “Wing Commander: The Movie” sequel (SQ42).

    P.S. the point of you picking on the crazies is somewhat moot now that I can’t see your twitter without an account. That’s where I’d see most of it. Still, I say stay focused on the people responsible or stay quiet. Once this collapses, I suspect you’re only going to see the numbers of irrational people going from extreme SC love to extreme DS hate increase. So you’ll have plenty of time to play with your harassment fan-club.
    Sorry for another long rant-y post or if I’ve sounded too harsh. ( or if I’m repeating myself as I tend to compose these posts while drinking =P )

  102. Derek, in this case intelligence and pride won’t mix well though, especially if this is all a ruse as they continue to gamify the process of fundraising.

    I think that a combination of Chris’s pride and the need to keep up appaarances means they will push it to the last penny. I doubt this will end nearly. Chris has said he won’t do this if he doesn’t have total control, so the odds of a rescue are slim. It’ll succeed (maybe) or it’ll go pop, and then when it does, we’ll know.

    Ego’s make people do funny things. Remember when curt schilling paid some of 38Studios’ debts via personal check? That’s the sort of red flag we need to look for at the end

  103. You go to a bank. You say “Hey, i got 91 million of dollars made before the content is available.” You show them the facts.

    And guess what`s happening next. Everyone is ranting that 91 mio. isn`t nearly enought, but if you get foundet like that, you can tell the banks any sum and you`ll get it.

    Its not like 100% of your current money. Its not even 200%. You gonna get enought money to drown in.

    Just as a nice reminder.

  104. The funny part is that people are paying thousands of dollars and accepting to wait for longer, supposedly to play a better/finished game.
    In the end, best case scenario, after release (with the end of the ship sales), and definitely a release that still will be incomplete of all the goals, they will keep the thing maybe for two years and that’s it.
    People will have played 5-7 years in development, playing an unfinished/bugged mess, and just two with something more “stable” as a complete featured game, with probably most of the big dreams/additions, sequences for Squadron 42 or different kinds of SP campaigns, playable capital ships and stuff (with meaning, not just for the sake that you can drive the thing around, but also participate of epic battles online, otherwise, wouldn’t make too much sense or have too much value) becoming vaporware.
    Screw the publishers, with unfinished mess released and their existent DLC’s. So, let’s then, pay thousands of dollars for non-existent DLC and eternal unfinished mess.

  105. They even lie in that propaganda:

    “Star Citizen is still in alpha. It has been in development for 2 years, which is short for a quite a large scope game.”

    Two years?. Seriously, I think they lie more than politicians. And are as reliable with our money.

  106. I don’t think it’s written by CIG. It’s just the promo codes doing their work. It was bound to happen. I don’t think even an unofficial article would be written this way.

  107. The Disco leak included assets of fully modelled Vaduul fleet including the Kingship and up until that point unrevealed ship classes … check teller’s youtube for spoiler tagged previews

  108. Denan: I don’t know. There are differing opinions in the comments as far as I can tell. All a post needs to be is polite, not contain personal attacks etc.

  109. I’m certain SC will keep going past Q1/16. Chris has the backers wrapped tightly around his fingers.

    With the endeavor sale up to the end of the sabre/military CitizenCon sale, they made $4 million from 9/29 to 10/19. There will be the Nov anniversary sale for $2-4 million, and a winter holiday or new year sale, which will likely also make $2-4 million.

    Even with Chris’s habit of throwing away work, and redoing things over and over, the backers will keep dropping money for new ships, enough to sustain 150-200 employees. Doesn’t matter if actual progress stalls; just release a new concept/variant sale. They can even start selling Star Marine equipment, weapons, exosuits, and medical gear.

    The illusion of progress is something that Chris will never have trouble maintaining. After all, interviewing developers and their interests or history makes backers feel CIG is transparent enough. They will never wake up and realize their money is spent beyond inefficiently.

    The few that realize something is wrong are already running. Others have stopped pledging. But it doesn’t matter. CIG just needs 6,000 fools to spend $350 to make $2.1 million, and that will cover another month of “progress.”

    There are in fact, at least 6,000 fools.

  110. How come posts that agree with your original question, but are critical off your current methodology don’t pass your ‘social media person’? Weird kind of filtering? Or is there something more sinister going on? I have to say that the stuff i’m seeing is worrisome, and every other “normal lurker” i know seems to have the same opinion. The current dialogue doesn’t feel right.. and with your filtering of critical posts the feeling of ‘wrongness’ increased tremendously.

    Not what i expected when this all started.. 🙁

  111. David. I say Q1/16 at best because I don’t believe they’re dumb enough to wait until the last minute before the wheels fall off.

  112. Sry Gary but;

    “The label of “backer” was used by CIG, and by you in your initial post, as a way of claiming that each person who decided to exchange goods for services is automatically part of a larger group, and therefore gets to speak with the greater weight that those numbers confer.”

    …is all your talk!

    I simply don’t agree with your interpretation of my OP.

    All I said (in some mysterious ways it seems!) 🙂 was that it doesn’t look good for any creator of a Space (SIM) game to spend all their energy and skill to try and shoot down the biggest game the genre has seen in a decade..with a Million backers already confirmed before the game is released!

  113. Sry dsmart, that was posted late on Saturday in an alcohol induced party :). I apologize for that post.

    Kind Regards,

  114. Sry mate you lost me at “Create three fake accounts gmail accounts”
    If you think that is what is going on..all the best to ya, I’m sure that is not what is happening!

  115. Scale of development grew with demand as well as support. A single persistent game world for a few thousand players is inherently different than one for millions. I also think the studio scaling argument is usually made in reference to cost approximations which people are constantly spitballling, i.e. the estimated $2-3 million burn rate is a peak number not a constant since inception. Interestingly, since July 5 CIG has raised as much ($8 million) as D’s sources said they previously had on hand, so I guess the estimates on the date of their demise will have to keep slipping since they often fail to account for new backers and continued increases in support. Many people have come and will come to this game from outside the gamer world, people who gave up on gaming in favor of other pursuits but havn’t been exposed to it yet. Seeing that they don’t spend $$ on traditional marketing in lieu of producing incremental detailed material to share with community.

  116. So, about the Q1/16, where you say they are running out of money. Do you really believe the pledges will stop? I mean even if what you are saying about they’re finances is true, they still get financed by the community. You talk about a burn-rate of appr. 3 Mio a month, still they do get 1-3 Mio a month of continuing support, and that without ship commercials or any real effort of marketing.
    So why are you clinging on to Q1/16, wouldn’t it be possible for them to hang on until they have the 150 Mio you talk about is needed to release the game?

  117. Hi,

    There are many ways they could have approached the game development. Focus all resources on building SQ42 for instance and only after its release focus on SC. Or building a simpler you suggest first.
    Then again, building a simpler game feature first and have to rebuild it later on could also be seen as a waste of resources. One example is building a Freelancer style planet side location instead of actually building a planet side location that allows you to walk around and explore.
    There is no denying that if they can deliver a more ambitious game, the backers will get a better product. If they can’t it is a major loss.

    Each person will have its own opinion on the subject but then again I’m not a game developer. I’m not going to claim I can do a better job then they do.
    With that said they have a responsibility. It is their decision to build the game as it is being built.

    As someone interested on the project, we should have only one concern. Will they deliver the game they have promised?

    So far they seem to be doing their job. But some people have made some serious accusations, that if proven to be true means the project is in danger. And obviously we should be concerned.

    With that said, without proof or a legal process that will determine the veracity of those claims, its the word of some people vs the word of other people.

    Each person here has its own experience with crowdfunding and game development.
    What I do know is that all the crowdfunding projects I have supported have one thing in common. They all suffered release delays. In some cases of over one year.
    And all the people that follow games in general know about the multiple game release delays that major titles suffer.

    So for me, missing a release date is not a major issue since in truth they also stated during the crowdfunding campaign, that release dates could change due to the complexity of game development.

    So again, my only concern is : Can they build the game they have promised?

    If they need more time to do it right, then no problem for me. I don’t want another AC Unity.
    If instead the accusations are right and they are running out of money and all that, then I’m concerned.

    Until then, I will avoid criticizing their game development process.
    I’m not an expert or game company CEO.

  118. Stewie’s at it again on the CIG forums.

    As a backer I would like to think that there is a chance to at least get something for what I put into the game. But after hearing him rant on the Open House Live stream made my brain hurt and reading that Manifesto made my eye bleed and he is more coherent than most of the white knights.

    He just sound like a crazy French Canadian watching $1000 going down the loo.

  119. One of the things I keep reading in various discussions, is that RSI didn’t exist as a studio in 2012/13, so natuarally it would take time to build up resources.

    I don’t think using this as a justification for the delay is valid, because surely, when pitching the KS, taking into account what resources are currently available and how long it would take to build a team is something that should have been factored in right from the start.

    The change from ‘vision 1.0’ to ‘vision 2.0’ can’t be used to justifiy why the amount of resources couldn’t be predicted because RSI didn’t get 100% agreement from those that signed up to ‘vision 1.0’. Even if only one backer that signed up to ‘vision 1.0’ didn’t agree, then RSI had no right to change to ‘vision 2.0’, with it’s implicit longer-timescale.

    IMO, it would have been accepatable to proceed with ‘vision 1.0’, then only after that was complete, continue towards ‘vision 2.0’.

  120. To be fair, I’d drop a cool million to have Gary Oldman in my game, if I had that kind of money to burn. Because he IS that awesome. However, that being said…

    Busting out ye olde Windows Calculator for a second. Let’s see, if I were to spend $10,000 a day on booze & hook, uh, I mean, game development for two years straight with nary a single day off then my bill would come out to… 7.3 million dollars. That’s a pretty good chunk of spending. That’s, like, some rock star level money burning right there. Think about that – ten grand a day. And even then we’re still not at 10% of SC’s expenses, apparently.

    If I bought a $150,000 house for one of my friends ever single week for two years I’d have only spent $15.6 million. And unless I’m really bad at real estate, I technically will still have most of that money in equity. And I’d still only have spent less than 20% of what SC has so far.

    Now if I up my daily spending habits to $100,000 per day, two things would happen. First, Kanye West would personally call me on my phone to tell me that I’ve got spending issues and to tone it down a bit. The second thing that will happen is, after two years, I’ll have spent $73 million dollars. Which would leave me only $20 million left to finish SC.

    And that would still be twice as much left as RSI apparently does, if current estimates are correct.

    But wait, it’s time to go to… ludicrous speed! If I were to invest my $90 million into a safe, blue-chip stocks at a 5% dividend rate (not that hard), I’d be collecting $450,000 a year for the rest of eternity. Now that might not be a lot of money for a game studio to work with (these people don’t work for cheap, after all) but remember, this is pretty much forever at this point. Which means if it takes a year, or two years, longer… so what? I could point to my portfolio and say to backers “Look, no matter what happens, this is going to get finished eventually.” Yes, this would be a horrible misappropriation of funds. So is handing it over to a game studio to help them do their own side project, or opening a film studio for your “friend.” My version at least has an element of certainty and long-term gain to it. Best of all, once the game is finished I’m still going to be able to toss that $450K per year at whatever I want. Keep a public server open until the sun burns out? Why not? Free expansion packs every year? Sure thing. And if people go out and buy into the game later, well that adds to the investment pool and opens the permanently open door even wider.

    Don’t get me wrong: I still think Chris Roberts is a great game designer. It his financial & management abilities that are, shall we say, the sort of thing that would embarrass a government contractor working at the Pentagon. He the kind of guy whom a smart person hires… and then watches very closely. He is not someone you want in charge, though, and you definitely don’t want him knowing where you keep the silverware.

  121. dsmart: Sorry for changing the subject, but I hope you respond.
    I don’t like the way you talk about “the cult”. I get the impression you blame it on the worst members of the community. I don’t agree at all.

    The crazies are just crazies. The internet is full of people fighting with all kinds of mental illness. The toxic communities are probably just the result of constant internal fighting. I’d blame some of that on clans for a game that doesn’t exist, as I’ve seen it happen before.. but most fights are about what exactly this game actually is.

    All that’s pretty normal. The idea this is a “cult” should come from the cocktail of often extreme and manipulative marketing practices. It’s existed (and has been growing) since day one and effects all backers to vastly different extents. The fact the weakest members of the community are effected the most should be no surprise to anyone.

    I guess it’s not too unusual, but RSI has been targeting the weak this whole time. MMO addicts, P2W addicts, Sci-fi addicts, FPS addicts, PC gaming fanboys, suckers for fan-fic, suckers for the latest greatest graphics, people preparing for some sort of VR revolution, anyone with an irrational hate of video game publishers, (the list goes on). First priority, keep these people hooked on Star Citizen. Last priority, figure out the magical gameplay balancing required to please all these different groups.

    If you don’t believe that, fine. But don’t use “cultist” as a meaningless insult for the people harassing you. There are plenty of other insults you could use.

    TLDR; Don’t blame the player, blame the game.

  122. Another bad attempt in disguising the parody. They sneak and slither on the legal edge but they do it in a so rude way it is so obvious then. The TOS change won’t stand 2 minutes in front of a court.
    Believe me Mr.Smart when I say I want this game to be out ( correction > this kind of game) : ED + a real pu and interactions .
    SC obvioulsy has already failed. The bonus time reveals the scam; more and more public people talk about it, and not in a good manner anymore.
    Something tells me you won’t be the last person to take legal actions against CIG.
    And the backers are slowly waking up.
    Hopefully for the best.

  123. MDrake: Yeah, I saw that when it went up. Nobody but the cultists are going to pay attention to that drivel.

    As to the Vanduul, my sources tell me that nothing has been done with them thus far. Seriously. Nothing.

  124. Some Predictions:

    1) CIG releases their newest promotion, the CR9000 “Bukkakitron.” It comes with sixteen weapon mounts, moves faster than a Hornet, costs $25,000 and comes with a kleenex used by Our Glorious Savior Himself. Kleenex smells faintly of Jergens Lotion.

    2) Ortwin learns the hard way what a real lawyer is when he meets Sandi’s new lawyer as he hands Chris the divorce papers precisely five seconds after Chris informs her that, due to budget cuts, they will be forced to use a lower grade of champagne to fill the hot tub with.

    3) CIG releases a new promotion, the “WK Marine” expansion pack to Star Marine. The pack costs $50,000 and changes the graphics so that all the attacking enemies look exactly like Derek Smart. Package comes with a Derek Smart voodoo doll. Ortwin soon gets another letter from an even meaner lawyer than last time. Lawsuit ensues. Doll smells faintly of Jergens Lotion.

    4) Depressed and fleeing litigation fees, Roberts flees to the Republic of Guyana along with 1000 of his biggest contributors to form “The Citizens Temple” in the newly christened “Robertstown.” There his followers continue to auction off their worldly possessions on E-bay to keep the money flowing, liquidating savings, retirement, children’s college funds, etc, in an attempt to outbid each other in donations so as to earn the favor of Our Glorious Savior Himself.

    5) Eventually, due to the amount of media attention garnered by the whole debacle, a US Senator decides to visit and audit their books. It does not end well.

  125. I see. I just wonder how this guy has so many friends / ties to the industry, despite producing mostly hot air, that are influential enough to hinder the mainstream media to investigate.

  126. MKDAWUSS: They are all different entities. RSI (US) is the parent. CIG and F42 are studios under that parent.

    Scroll to the bottom of this page. They have five locations. Santa Monica (CIG), West Hollywood (RSI), Austin (CIG), Frankfurt (CIG), Manchester (Foundry 42).

    In fact, RSI, CIG and F42 are also registered UK companies. Since F42 is a UK only company, it is not registered in the US.

    Gemini 42 is another company. This is the one that Sandi recently said paid for the movies and such that she was doing/funding with backer money.

  127. lir: Oh, it’s worse than that. By also giving everyone access to the game recently, they now force everyone who logs in, to accept the latest TOS. That’s intended to get around the same TOS issue we’re all talking about and for which, come November, they have to issue refunds and provide accounting reports. Someone else just wrote an article about it here. See also this.

  128. Trilbert: Most of them are either CR fans or have close ties to him and/or his PR guy, David Swofford. Then add to the fact that this is Derek Smart who started this “uprising” since July, and you can easily see why.

  129. Rob: I don’t understand why people keep asking these questions. The company is primarily funded with backer money. So what exactly do you think?

  130. Derek,

    I just read the following column, which is generally about MMO’s and is released weekly by – for my taste – one of the most horrible writers I’ve ever read:,star-citizen-jedi-zwerge-und-agenten:article.html

    Two things upfront for the record: It’s in German, so if you need help with translation, just get back at me via my email provided, I will gladly help out; Skype would also be possible of course. I just think I recall you saying you have German friends who can help you out.

    And I read it only regularly because it’s astounding how one person can missunderstand, interprete and ill-will simple facts on top of the unsensitive writing. I mean, I know that a column is written totally subjective, but I’m sure you will notice the difference. As a matter of fact while writing this I again find myself in awe, it’s freaking madness to me, haha. Not gonna spoiler anything, you should enjoy this in it’s entirety

    I also want to note that this news-site has not a comparable outreach to Gamestar, who you’ve already had the pleasure to deal with (haha, sorry man, it’s just madness and so strangely and despairingly funny for me).

    Also sorry for possible messed up paragraphs and formatting; I’m writing from my phone.

    Looking forward to read something from you!

  131. Thanks Derek,
    That is the conclusion I came to a while ago. The one thing that has always irked me was how little CR thinks of the backers and very little transparency has actually happened.

    I mean if you wanted to do a thesis on marketing this would be a dream to do because this is one giant marketing exercise. And of course how they say they treat you with respect but all they do is put out more marketing crap and no real info.

    It also reminds me of slightly mad studios development of project cars. If you arent familiar with it they utilized their backers the same way with a twist. If you backed at a certain level you were entitled to profit from the game!

    So the exact same thing happened here – the backers quashed all descent and spread fud all over the internet and hid the games faults. And when PC released it was pure shit and bans were handed out like sandi on a bender. It is one of the games that I will never buy due to this attitude.

    But CR has tapped into the exact same emotions on the forums and he leverages that to increase traffic and money into the game. The backers get a “Bigger + Better” game for it and people are happy. And they continue to crush dissent because it will interfere with their projections of the game. CIG management know this and play on it among other techniques.

    So for me CR has little care for my money and will use every technique he can in order to stop me from asking questions unless it is cheer leading. He releases marketing fud time and again and calls it transparency all the while not honoring his pledge to treat the money with respect.

    And sadly when this explodes the poor devs who worked on this will wear this like an albatross despite doing great work. Just an all around shitty situation. Do you think that the censorship on the forums plays an important role in this or not?

  132. New white knighting fun. I learned that LostAccountant really hates you from his comments elsewhere.

    Also, I realized something. The vanduul are the scary bad guys. They are extremely important, and should have art assets with walking and fighting animations. We’ve seen nothing about the vanduul. Not in SQ42, and the last time was the cutlass trailer. Did Chris throw away all the vanduul work… again?

    Why does no one question the obvious things? Is Gary Oldman SOOOOOO amazing?
    I swear every $1 million is worth $300k.

  133. Hey, I’m pretty new to all this drama about Star Citizen. I’m not a backer, but I’ve looked into both sides. I have a question for Derek Smart.

    Why go through all this trouble? What’s in it for you?

    It’s a lot of effort to do all this. You have a lot of people against you. Wouldn’t the best thing to do is just sit back, and if/when Star Citizen fails you can come back and say “I told you so!”?

    Is there money involved? Did Chris Roberts personally offend you? Do you really think the consumer isn’t capable of deciding how they should spend their own money? Why does it matter that other people are spending money on a project you don’t support?

  134. I was under the impression that CIG was the parent company and RSI was the subsidiary. At least that’s what it says in the Star Citizen Wiki ( ). But it is a wiki, so take that for what they are.

    In addition, I thought RSI was the developer and CIG was the publisher, which I suppose would fit the aforementioned structure, since publishing companies tend to own a few developer studios and companies.

  135. We ‘re not disrespecting you lol.
    Not agreeing =/= disrespect.
    Respect yourself instead and try to see the facts behind the smoke.

  136. I’m still astounished how the cig community IS NOT reacting about the referral system.
    It’s not simply on a legal edge, it IS illegal in many countries.
    They ask you to ask your friends into buying something that doesn’t exist.
    Do you understand that ‘White nothing knights non-sense’ fanboys ???
    Though I admit legality has yet to prove the delivered product is non-existent or of an under value from claim. ( this wouldn’t be too hard tbh)

    Nevertheless , It is the cherry on the top, that set an end to my unbalanced state.
    For real it sounds like something dark occures in the backstage.
    I know something was going wrong anyway, since they’ve used every single technics known when one wants to hide something.
    Using superlatives, shiny for the show concept arts and webby, dedication to its leader, overwhelming informations, over promising, lying, dodging etc etc..
    And now that referral system.
    This sounds like extreme but I’m about to draw a report to the European (since I’m Euro Citizen) equivalent of FTC to be honest.
    The more we are…

    Re-upping this from Mark post on your last blog.

    If I may suggest : It would may be a good thing to gather and centralise all those interesting links , as a sum from comments, somewhere on your blogs.

  137. Legend to PC gaming, Chris Roberts?
    CR a legend about gaming? That guy who said PC games were dead untill he came back from the dead?
    ROFL, I didn’t even know his name before SC came out to story 3years ago.
    First, PC games were NEVER dead. The best games ever came out on PC and long after CR had disapeared into hollywood studios.
    Ok I knew about wing commander series and freelancer but I havent played them ever nor would had I cared about who made them.

    Legends : John Carmack, Gabe Newell, Hideo Kojima etc and you don’t have to know what they did. You just know their name.
    Chris Roberts? only niche players that knew about wing commander knew the man.

    1 million people siding CR ? I don’t remember you calling me in. How do you know?

  138. A legend of epic failure yes he sure is. I remember what happend during Freelancer development and I remember the initial promises from back then. Hack I still have a old german gaming magazine called “gamestar” from back then where he talked about what Freelancer will be and what you will be able to do. It sounded an aweful lot like SC multicrew ships visiting planets all that fine stuff minus the FPS part. And what got delivered in the end? Yes he never finished the game because he ran out of money and the company went under Microsoft took over and 9 month later delivered a finished game minus all the fantasy features back then.

    Similar things happend with pretty much every game he ever made just that it never game to the point there the company went under because of him because there were publishers that prevented that from happening. He is no where near as amazing as everyone always makes him out to be. Its like everyone has tunnel vision and has forgot about all the trail of fail in his record.

    Way back then kickstarter was first announced I brought into it with almost a thousend bucks because I though it was a reasonable vision though even back then already too many stretched goals. But whatever I brought in what I never understood is how people become so clouded and deluded along the way I mean there is zero accountability no checks and balances and nobody thinks that that is a problem with a man known to be unable to deliver?

    I’ve requested a refund a few days ago not because I’m afraid of losing the money but simply because it is a bad investment it really is. Usually when you give someone money you get something in return for taking that risk and they are accoutable to you. In crowdfounding neither happens and the arguement well you get to play the game is honstly a pretty poor argument if the amount of money you could give was limited to exactly how much the game will cost once released that be okay. But that is not what is happening.

    Crowdfounding the way it is right now is a flawed concept and I think its high time that lawmakers take a look at that. If your company is publicly traded you have to publish your finanical statments at least once a year yet you can go and do a crowdfounding campaign which is esencially getting public found and are not required to do the same? Yet nobody thinks thats a problem?

  139. White knights do not realize the real danger to SC is from within not from the likes of Derek Smart. Sandy is the saboteur, DS is only a “troll”. DS has no power over SC, Sandy does. White knights, they have to fucking idea. They will be shot in their wet dream and never knew how they end up dead.

  140. Does backer money pay for all of that office space? I’m sure they’re all filled with nifty toys and gadgets all funded by backers as well.

  141. Un wait Sandi is in the cast of SQ42 … That’s bloody double dipping … right?
    First the Lawyer.. now she also…

    And now actors that I admired for a long time have associated with this fiasco….
    Ugh If this ship sinks, (And it will) it’s gonna take a lot of good people with it..

    Beside that there are rumblings about the actor guild wanting more money/royalties in games for voice actors?

  142. Now this is just just bad Mr. Smart. why would you let a post like this through if you’re not out to troll?

    You have my handle and my email, don’t let shitheads like this drag you down please. Who is NitrJack? that you published on your blog in this manner?


  143. Caveat:

    “always been confused by the distinction between CIG and RSI though, maybe you could enlighten me Derek?”

    RSI is the parent company. They have RSI, CIG, Foundry 42, Gemini 42 (movies for Sandra) spread across five (LA is the head office, Santa Monica, Austin, Frankfurt, Manchester) offices.

    “The impression I get from the various things I’ve read is that CIG/RSI have some very talented deveopers/graphic designers, but they’ve been hamstrung by senior management repeatedly changing direction/scope.”

    Yes, that is correct. They have a stellar team that they were able to attract with lofty promises. As in the past, they are hamstrung by Chris Roberts.

  144. Rob: Yes. And the media isn’t getting on it because, well, it’s the same reason they keep writing fluff pieces on Star Citizen.

  145. Me:

    1) Not likely. Because if you look at their earnings metrics, you will see that they surround ship sales and key events (GAMESCOM, CitCon etc). During other periods, their earnings are low. And my guess is that it’s going to get lower going into 2016. And with their burn rate, they are going to make some heavy cuts going into 2016 because if they can’t keep their costs below $1m per month and/or in line with monthly earnings, they’re going to fold.

    2) Likely. Investors, like banks, deal in absolute numbers. Sure they could probably take out loans (like they did with Foundry 42 through NatWest bank), but the videogame sector is very volatile and fraught with losses. So, while still possible, it’s going to be tough for them to get outside money. Especially now with all the bad press, looming legal liability lawsuits etc.

    3) Very unlikely. The entire industry is aware of Chris’s industry track record and it is highly unlikely they will work with him. Especially since he was badmouthing the publishing model right off the bat and which is how he gained such support so quickly. The only way a publisher comes into this, is if they get SQ42 or the PU out. And even so, I don’t imagine that any publisher would want to work with this trio. All three (Chris, Sandra, Ortwin) would have to leave.

    4) Most likely. If they don’t have the money to at least release SQ42, they will be in deep trouble. As I stands, I am hearing that SQ42 is at least 15 months away. Nobody knows the fate of the PU. Even so, SQ42 could still flop. Remember that 700K+ people have pre-paid for it. So that’s not new sales. Very few games sell over 700K units. Even Elite took a year to sell 800K units!

  146. DWM: Dude, we’re talking about actual backers/supporters of Star Citizen. Nobody cares about someone’s grandma who is a fan.

  147. I think Derek Smart is taking the right actions. I’m a backer and honestly I don’t really care who comes out on top. If star citizen topples over and bankrupts itself than that’s CIG’s fault. If the game is released and it’s everything it promises to be then great. Some people just need to calm down and get their shit together. Your’e fighting over a video game after all. Let Derek say what he wants and let Chris Roberts make the game he promised to make. If Derek wants to go to court with this then he has every right to do so. If Chris is doing everything he says he’s doing then he shouldn’t have any problems defending what he’s been working on for the past three years. I don’t want Star Citizen to fail but I want to know if Chris is managing his money correctly. Quite frankly every single one of these so called “black knights” most likely cares about Star Citizen. The reason they’re fighting along side Derek Smart is because they too don’t want to see Star Citizen crash and burn, they just want to make sure that Chris won’t fuck it up. Derek probably feels the same way. (Hopefully) Anyways I just wanted to voice my opinion on all of this conflict.

  148. If you have life long friends, all with careers around the gaming industry wouldn’t you if you had an idea for a new project ask them if they want to join you first ?

  149. One thing I don’t get, why hide the fact that CR and SG are married? There is a trail out there not hard to follow that proves this. If the backers don’t know but devs do and its being a closely guarded secret would they not get suspicious?

    Finally their PR person is an idiot. The narrative they could have had and ran with publicly being married would be gobbled up by White Knights and media personnel.

  150. Happy to report: My refund has been approved and the money has been received finally. Except the long waiting time until the request has been worked on, it all went smooth and without any problem for the side of the support team. I also am form the EU.

    Unrelated to the refund, I wonder about one thing:
    What has become off the cooperation between Star Citizen and Kingdom Come: Deliverance. I remember an old KCD video talking about how they would cooperate and share technologies (for example clothing/inventory tech) with each other and help each other out. Will a failure of SC have any impact on KCD development? But maybe the cooperation did not work out/come to be, since you haven’t heard anything about it since the first mentioning.

  151. Changed direction? I would have guessed they’ve done nothing but spend months fighting to get illfonic’s code working inside their multicrew demo in time for citcon. The only thing left I hope for is they stay focused and cut any promised features standing in the way. Even if it ends up playing more like illfonic’s quake mod than the “Rainbow 6 + Arma 3” dream.

    I thought the “Baby PU” (I’d prefer to call it the “tech demo of foundational gameplay”) would take some time to get running stably outside of a super computer staged environment (was it just me or were some transitions totally missing at citcon), but It sounds like its now slated for “Two Weeks™”… I guess it’s another waiting game to see if that’s anything more than a better way of making money than “Soon™”.

    If you can’t tell, my optimism for anything they have to say is fading very fast. How is there still so much faith after years of misdirection like this?

    LOL. “open development”.

    I still hope there’s a feature length behind the scenes documentary (I think they promised that at some point) that’s capturing all the warning signs of this impending failure. Should be crazier than the leaked Disney documentary of “The Emperor’s New Groove” ‘s disastrous production.

    I really need to stop posting here, it feels like I’m just repeating myself. Though CIG has been repeating themselves for quite some time.

  152. I haven’t backed SC, but I’ve been following it’s development with interest since I first heard about it (just after the campaign on KS ended).

    My initial impression was that it looked amazing, and if those impressive visuals translated into the gameplay, then it would truly be a stellar game. I’ve always been confused by the distinction between CIG and RSI though, maybe you could enlighten me Derek?

    At the back of my mind however, was always the feeling that it looked a bit TOO amazing, promising to be everything everyone ever wanted in a game. This is the reason is why I held off buying a package. Over time, with the ongoing ship sales, the ever-increasing funding and the ever-increasing scope, I became more firmly convinced that I would be better off waiting until something playable was actually released, because it was becoming more apparent to me that RSI/CIG were focussing more on the shiny stuff and selling ships, and less on actual delivery of a quality product.

    When the hangar module was released, I immediately saw it for what it was – a way of examining your shiny ship purchases close-up. Not a bad thing in itself, but I was sure that the reasoning behind releasing this module was to persuade backers to buy more ships.

    Then Arena Commander came out. I watched some YouTube videos, and finally realised what was meant by the term ‘turrets in space’. I have a reasonable grasp of physics, and understand the how real spacecraft behave, but to me the way the ships moved didn’t look like fun, and when we’re talking about a game, to me fun trumps reality every time. Adhering closer to reality CAN be fun (trying to make orbit with a homebrew KSP spacecraft without it disintegrating for example), but SC’s take on ‘fun’ just didn’t do it for me.

    The way the ‘White Knights’ act hasn’t enamoured me with the SC community either. I can appreciate that these White Knights are probably just a small subset of the backers, but they’re extremely vocal, and have a habit of trawling the internet shouting down dissent wherever it’s encountered. CIG/RSI did nothing to curtail this behaviour, and maybe even encouraged it.

    With the recent furore around the game, I’m glad I didn’t part with any money. To me, CIG/RSI are looking more and more like a company that will never deliver on the dreams they’ve been selling. I don’t know whether this is due to underestimating the size of the task, or something more nefarious, but I haven’t been impressed with the way CIG/RSI/the White Knights have responded to your blog articles and those of The Escapist. In fact I now have the attitude that I won’t even download a free trial using one of those referral codes, because I don’t want to be numbered as one of the backers, and my involvement used as part of the SC marketing campaign.

    The impression I get from the various things I’ve read is that CIG/RSI have some very talented deveopers/graphic designers, but they’ve been hamstrung by senior management repeatedly changing direction/scope.

    Chris Roberts appears to be a man who is very good at coming up with great ideas, but severely lacking in the ability to manage those ideas to fruition.

    I had never heard of his wife Sandi Roberts/Gardiner before SC, but she seems to be very high-maintenance and more interested in furthering her acting career than fulfilling the dreams of the backers.

    Ben Lenswick lied about Sandi being married to Chris, and is probably a guy that you wouldn’t want to hold onto your wallet for you.

    Ortwin Freyermuth has the air of a shyster about him, and his smile looks like the grin of a shark.

    Erin Roberts I think is the exception amongst this group, and is probably the one person who could salvage anything from this mess, if he was enabled.

  153. So the same guys that likely had a hand in helping defraud Gizmondo are now working on a CIG project with tons of public money and no accounting? Why hasn’t the gaming press gotten hold of this?

  154. Hmmm.. wondering why my previous question wasn’t posted.. but i’ll try again. Some sources are showing comments from D_smart on SA, making fun of suicides. As SA and the sources are never trustworthy only the source can say if he really said that. So, was that you or is this some weird plot to discredit you?

  155. Derek,
    Question for you.
    If you go with the burn rate what is the percentage chance of these things happening? I dont know anything about financing a game so I defer to your experience.

    1)CIG can manage to maintain a 3million/month income rate (that is a lot of concept ships) for what 3 years?

    2)The (mythical?) deep pockets investor comes in and funds the rest of the production till launch?

    3)They find a publisher to produce the game? I mean a 95 or whatever million dollar liability would be hard to overcome

    4)CIG goes bankrupt and the 4 horsemen (sandi,chris,lawyer,ben) all go running for the hills.

    Just wondering on your take of the most likely option. #3 + 4 will have the white knights slashing wrists sadly.

  156. Under European laws, only a product not delivered as advertised is eligible for a full refund. In all other cases (which includes pre-orders like the crowdfunding campaign of Star Citizen), you have to come to a ‘reasonable agreement’. For instance, if you received a star citizen citizen card, they are in their right to deduct a ‘reasonable amount’ from the refund amount. This is very vague, and no real hard numbers exist on this. But if you can’t reach a reasonable agreement, you actually have then a right to disband the entire ‘contract’ and get the full money back (or they face getting reported to European market regulatory authorities, and CIG happens to be in the jurisdiction of Europe with 2 of their offices).

    Not sure how it works in your region tho 🙂

  157. I knew Scott Manley was a SC supporter, he had lot video showing ships. So the white knights are turning on him, even he did not even speak highly of you, WTFs wrong with these people?

  158. How about all the people that haven’t registered that agree with CIG? Pretty sure however you slice it, at least a million people side with Chris Roberts. The dude is a legend of the PC gaming world.

  159. The problem with this “will not made on time” is a problem that happen with all ambitious games:

    1-They dont tell when the game is going to be released.
    1.1-People Complain saying the game will never be made is a vaporwave or scam

    2- They say some early date, to stop the ones that will complain or just because they just want to say some date in the hopes the problems of situation 1 doenst happen.
    2.1-People complain if release date is over and the game is not released, saying the game will never be released or is a scam.

    3-Developers say a extremely long date.
    3.1-If the game is a kickstarter style of funding, players see the long date and dont give money.

    Its a fucking problem without solution.

  160. 7 People on the team for the demon at towards the end of 2012 doesn’t add up to 4 years. First real team wasn’t working until beginning of 2013. Complex games take a long time to make and we really shouldn’t start counting until the first team was working in 2013. That makes it 3 years next year. Lets get that part straighten out.

    The next part is so what if it takes 5 years or longer? Games are delayed all the time. Games are pushed out before they are ready all the time. Publishers cut corners to push out a buggy product before its ready, all the time. I thought we were all tired of this practice. We aren’t 12. We can wait until the game is done. Those of us that backed it, have backed it. That money is gone and I would rather them to take longer to make it right then push out some pos I don’t want.

    As for version 1.0 of the game. To semi Quote Ralph Koster. People don’t want to play a game, they want to live in a universe. I don’t want version 1.0. I rather them take time and send it out as complete as they can.

    What they are trying to do is hard. Most say it can’t be done. Then they tear them down, stress them out to make their job just that much harder and that’s really not fair. But that is how it is. When someone is trying to do something special to a lot of people, others come along and try to tear it down. Let them fail without help.

  161. What I’ve heard from the RSI forums is they both built a mocap studio AND rented a much nicer one to host the ~$10 million worth of hollywood talent.

  162. @lir / Robert Smith
    Hell, before all that people should take the time just to consider how epicly different Star Citizen is from Wing Commander. That was 25 years ago! If Star citizen was being built with pixel graphics, then yeah, Chris Roberts is the guy for the job. I’d actually donate today if that was the game he was building.

    Chris Roberts is promising revolutionary features with revolutionary graphics. Trying something like that complete with R&D and a healthy dose of experimentation would have cost $100 million 10-15 years ago. What’s that gonna cost a start-up developer today? Does Chris Roberts know? All his mentions of timelines or budget so far suggest no. He tried this over 12 years ago and failed miserably. The fact a different company managed to use the assets to make a totally different, but fun, game is irrelevant.

    This is his second chance, and he’s showing none of the humility or caution that somebody who learned their lessons would show.

    At this point I don’t know why anyone following CIG would expect Episode 1 of SQ42 in less than 15 months (still technically 2016!) assuming no more delays. Even ignoring the fact the $170 Aegis POTATO basically proves Derek is getting insider info, clearly the “Baby PU” has to come first. It represents all core gameplay SQ42 requires. Unless you’re expecting $20 million worth of celebrity cut scenes mixed with childish missions played in Arena Commander maps.

    What was shown at citcon is just as far away as all the other “gameplay” videos you’ve seen so far and have yet to play.

    At best this game is halfway done, and if you believe they only have ~$8 million left, just staying afloat will require an increasingly desperate marketing campaign. You can see that already in their attempt to charge for CCUing your ships (I have no idea wth that actually means) and now a referral program tasking already obsessive fans with recruiting ever more people.

    It’s hard not to rant about this complicated mess. =/

  163. It is from this video, I’ve seen few months ago .

    I Took it with humour then, thinking it was a simple joke.
    But it made me think alot about SC outside the hype surrounding it.
    Humour is a good weapon at debunking stuff.

  164. This is why they stopped putting lead in paint. You somehow can’t understand, how it just might be possible that a good chunk of us that backed this game early on, are now unsatisfied with how things are going?

  165. Drinking the Kool Aid refers to the mass suicide that happened in Jonestown, Guyana in 1978. You don’t have to be American to know about Jim Jones’ cult–just well read.

  166. I asked for a refund in May of 2014 and told there were no refunds. Stuck as a backer. But on a positive note–at least there are a few backers that don’t feel totally ripped off. MechWarrior Online all over again…

  167. N-Jack: How about using some deductive reasoning. Tell you what. Wait for a quiet time of activity–late, late night or early morning. A time when the Citizen Counter is not increasing. Open Chrome, Firefox, and IE. Create three fake gmail accounts in each. Register all three accounts at the same time on RSI’s site. Notice the counter increment?

    The one million is simply a count of the number of users that registered to use the RSI website. No purchase necessary.

    Also, I know this from a period of botting the votes when RSI used to do stuff like ship polls. Created several thousand fake accounts in order to ensure voting outcomes were what I wanted. I wasn’t the only one that scripted either. Considering some of those votes would get to 50,000 votes and I’d just create fake accounts every time (never bothered to save the login credentials from earlier botting for votes there are a lot of fake accounts.

    Not to mention accounts from folks that either wanted to browse the forums or enjoy a free fly weekend.

  168. Hi nitro,

    Let me phrase it differently. I am a man who went ahead and pledged $45, and in return, got early access to whatever they’ve made so far.

    If the game ships, fine; if not, fine.

    The label of “backer” was used by CIG, and by you in your initial post, as a way of claiming that each person who decided to exchange goods for services is automatically part of a larger group, and therefore gets to speak with the greater weight that those numbers confer.

    That is inaccurate. It’s far more accurate to say that my opinion represents 1/1,000,000th of the total number of people who are customers of CIG.

    Likewise, your opinion represents 1/1,000,000th of the total number of people who are customers of CIG.

    When we phrase it that way, you and I become comrades, even if we disagree about the likely outcome of the project. Our opinions are of equal measure.

    We’re both big enough people that we don’t need to bolster our own opinions by shackling us to a group and claming we’re “1 million strong.” You and I are plenty strong enough to stand on our own, even if we disagree. So is everyone else.

  169. JPEGs? Are you serious? Its not even modeled in 3D and sell for 2000? Is CIG in a situation where they cant even hire modeling artist anymore? Now if some people pays 2000 for some JPEGs, then you can guess what kind of people you going to deal with in this game, any sane people should get the fuck out immediately.

  170. @Nitrojack : make it 999 999, im one backer that don’t agree with you or CIG.
    And since you want to play the number call, shall I remind you Backers are not the only dude on this planet that can make a statement about something. (aka SC)
    In you own words :

    So 7.2 billions non backers..think about it for a bit,
    7.2 billions NON backers.
    Are you sure you want to continue this crusade against..well all us “Whatever Knights?

  171. They are on a good way digesting all the intel they got from CIG.
    When they are done you’ll see they’ll begin to wake up.
    Too bad for now we are only a few that don’t like CIG food.

  172. How do you know that there aren’t one million backers?
    I mean really you cannot know that!

    And why are you being derogatory of my post?

    I respect you as an internet dude, can’t you give me the same respect?

  173. Well Gary if you don’t support the project then why are you a supporter of the project? It seems that you are just one of the “one million backers” but with a twist, that you really don’t want to be a backer?

  174. Well I was active and was actively shot down in that thread. Also there is another thread that started up after that. It got locked down a few months ago.

    Same Idea. Sadly here we are. It is just so disappointing that there was a voice back then and even then people were shot down.

    I really wish it never came to this but there were people who said something. There were players who cared. There info was right there on the forums.
    Yet CIG acts like a shovel ware development. A 90 million $ ego run wild.

    And when it comes down it is going to be catastrophic because so many refused reality even back then.

    /end rant.

  175. This x1000. You can’t look at the total number of subscribers and extrapolate that 1 million people agree with CIG.

    I am a backer, yet I stand with Derek Smart on this issue. Many backers dropped the minimum $45 package, played a few times (if at all), and are just waiting to see if the game comes out. It’s a small enough amount of money that most people will just shrug if they lose it.

    I don’t post on their forums, although I do read their development releases with casual interest. I don’t think the game will come out in the form they’re claiming, if at all. Yet I’m part of the 1 million. How many more are like me?

  176. First, there aren’t one million backers – the Kool-Aid is strong with this one. Second, this is the arrogance part, not all backers are raving lunatics who are in a cult.

  177. I would just like to say that “Disintegration” was one the best albums ever and changed many people’s lives. So thank you for that!

  178. Thanks for all the hard work Mr Smart.
    I just thought I would post this youtube playlist on the SC delusion and cult here for some laughs. Enjoy.

  179. I appreciate your stamina and dedication to your cause, these are things I admire in any man worth mention. I just can’t see an end game where anyone wins in this case.

    Like I said at least one million backers disagree with you on SC. Of course you will not win at this point, and maybe it would take a better man than me to simply walk away from a losing battle like this but I really think that would be best for all to let this disagreement just die out and let the world move on..

  180. You now must have an account to view the forum. When I went to look it made me sign in with my RSI account creds.

  181. Yep, it’s behind the backer wall. The thread is an old one from August 2013, and its 275 pages long with the last post made in Feb ’14. Basically it is someone lamenting the death of MWO and asking if the same situation could occur with SC. Of course everyone in the thread is basically saying “Noooo! Chris Roberts would never sell us out like that!”. Oh the hilarity….

  182. nitrojack: damn fool. That one million number is highly inaccurate since it takes into account backers, freeplay account owners etc

  183. So one million backers..think about it for a bit,
    one million backers.
    Are you sure you want to continue this crusade against..well all us “White Knights?

  184. Happy to report i’ve got my refund request approved.

    CIG support was very polite and professional. Hats off to people working there.
    They did ask if i was influenced by any media articles, to which i’ve responded “no”, which is plainly obvious, as i actually requested the refund before the media brouhaha. They’ve apologized for taking long to respond.

    All in all – good refund experience, would refund again.

    Not sure if it’s as frictionless for people everywhere or if it’s just the EU or if kickstarter backer status has any influence (no one ever asked me about it), of course. Can only speak for my case.

  185. Hey Derek,
    Want to see a funny parallel?
    a forum title that says it all:

    Is MWO a warning sign of what will transpire here?

    and one other. It is a discussion on how PGI and the mechwarrior online was behaving at the time.
    And yes they to stalked people across the net and banned people. Niko SNow did.
    He was so bad when they launched transverse they ran reddit account and had the entire pgi team shadow banned.

    And yet here we are – a shovel ware game dev doing as good or better than the AAA community.
    And note that most of those who were well aware of the situation are staunch defenders or CR + CIG.

  186. CIG provides and overwhelms the community with so much information, people can’t even seem to remember they’ve spent last year waiting for SM.

    all CIG has kept doing is about hiding a shit with a bigger shit instead.

  187. “It’s only data and no game model exists.” < That's a fact. Are you enjoying/playing the game right now?

  188. @Robert Smith

    Mate, you are one of the rare SC community dude that is questioning the other side without the hate and fascism.
    This is so rare that I’m going write some as well.

    I ‘m backer too.
    I think and hope you are on the good trails for an awakening.
    I won’t give counter arguments on what you have written.
    Only, remember that everything you know about SC advancement comes from ONE and one source only : CIG aka Chris Roberts.
    How do you know he is telling the truth? Because it is too big to be fake? Because it is Chris Roberts? Do you know him ? Can you confirm me he is doing what he claims to be? Other than ‘they show’ ‘they said’ ‘.

    I can’t say he’s telling the truth or not but I can say this, based on actual facts :
    The ‘game’ in its actual game is not a game. It’s a bunch of unconnected modules that are not enjoyable, full of bugs and in prealpha state for 2 years now. This is a fact right?

    I clearly remember Chris Roberts claimed to take the game out in 2 years with 2m$. Including PU, offline play, space sim, ingame economy. etc.

    David Braben realised precisly this with Elite Dangerous and with so less money on start it just speaks for itself. In 2 years. Ok they choped the game, and you are right it is a common doing nowadays.
    Nevertheless they released a playable product.

    I’m coming to the point :
    2 years ago would you have pledged for SC, with Chris Roberts on lead, if he had stated then “I need 2m$ to make this game but I won’t be able to do it. But please give me the money anyway.”
    Would he have said such a thing, I would have never pledged.
    You are right to anwser he never, instead he said he could do it with 500k$ ( and got 2m$) .
    PU, offline play, ingame econmy etc.

    Now, 2 years after, he is claiming the game can’t be made, seeing the scope range it has now.
    So it seems Chris Roberts can make mistake, only he’s CEO, and playing with YOUR money.
    A CEO from its very nature, doesn’t have the luxury to make mistakes , on a professional field that is.
    Sometimes they do and usually they are not CEO anymore after that.
    Since he’s human beeing and can make mistakes, how can you be sure he can’t do anymore.
    In what way does the scope range it has now differs from 2 years ago?
    In what way does it even match what we have for playable now from what was claimed 2 years ago?
    How come they can’t make it with 90m$ since they couldn’t with 2m$ ?
    How come it’s been 1 year they havent released out anything worth the try? with so much money?

    I can’t say he’s lying, not telling truth, or maybe self-enlighted,but I know for a fact SC after 3 years developement looks nothing like a game and that everything they show us is about future, dream, vision, and incredibly shiny concept arts and such.

    And I really belive CIG is designed to follow a Pyramid scheme business plan, as well as a dedication to its leader wich is close and alike of a sectish cult.
    Aka Chris Robert is awesome, period.

  189. Hi,

    I used to be a gamer and know Wing Commander etc from playing it back in the day so this game got my interested as soon as I heard of it. I quit gaming to proceed my professional career as a trader and eventually financial investor having my share of personally dealing with CEOs from software companies. So I am a bit biased. For every true visionary there are lots of people who just sell visions.

    Tbh, I don’t like crowdfunding for commercial projects in general because it means putting financial risk on a fanbase without giving them anything substancial in return. It’s not a fair deal. Obviously.
    If the project works out you get little at best – if it ends being belly up – you have nothing.

    But they are not crowdfunding.

    They are selling add-ons for a future product at huge, huge prices. There is no way for the donators to get their money back if the company goes bankrupt. This would be fair if they had the chance to make profit in return. But they don’t, not in any scenario. This is either going to be a F2P or subscription base game and it is highly improbable the prices charged now will climb beyond release so that you could make a proft out of your investment in rare spaceships etc.
    You are not buying art or antiques here.
    Virtual add-ons can be produced at any number you want, so can games. These prices are just too high to not attract big competotion if this game ends up being successful.

    So, in conclusion, I do not know this matter well enough at all to be sure about what is going on here and if the comany might be in better shape at this Moment than it sounds but by just looking at their business model something seems very clear to me.

    At the prices they are charging they are ripping off their fanbase even if they eventually got out the greatest game ever.
    And this is the best case szenario.

  190. Damn!! That sounds awesome! I can’t find the download link, though… Could you point me to where I can download all those cool additions to Star Citizen so I can have fun playing the game?

  191. Do you really believe the pledges will stop? I mean even if what you are saying about they’re finances is true, they still get financed by the community. You talk about a burn-rate of appr. 3 Mio a month, still they do get 1-3 Mio a month of continuing support, and that without ship commercials or any real effort of marketing.
    So why are you clinging on Q1/16?

  192. It’s probably not a good idea to say such things when we don’t have any evidence for why she was has that role. We don’t even know how large the role is. Perhaps Sandi’s audition performance helped her land the role legitimately or maybe Chris wanted to give his wife the role as a gift (which is nice). It’s none of our business. Our business as Black Knights is CIG’s accountability. That’s the most important thing. The rest is simply noise that’s best avoided. So say we all? 🙂

  193. It sounds like they made a lost of progress with it, enough for it to no longer be stand alone but part of. That’s good, right?

  194. “there was really nothing here. Nothing at all.”
    Did we watch the same presentation?
    1. New locations as yet unseen in game engine:
    a. Crusader Gas Giant
    b. Nav Comm Satellite
    c. CryoAstra repair/refuel Space Station
    d. Security Station Kareah
    e. Idris

    2. Demo of reworked and flyable Constellation,
    a. as yet unseen interior and exterior
    b. multi-crew functionality including flight and turrets
    c. connie damage states including vfx (state not dynamic in in Q drive was a little weird)
    d. crew elevator

    3. Animations
    a. Single-seat EVA functionality
    b. side strafe en passant
    c. some FPS action, very limited though it was
    d. repair system

    4. SQ 42 interaction system
    a. floaty text system
    b. contextual behavior cues

    5. Cinematics and character previews
    a. that speech
    b. crewmates
    c. cast list, wow

  195. God damn dude, you ever heard of line breaks!? Someone is going to go cross-eyed trying to read that!

  196. Derek,
    I have read almost all of your blog. I have watched several discussion on the issues you raise on YouTube and within the Star Citizen community. Of course I have read the Escapist’s articles, and Chris Robert’s reply. With all of this I felt compelled to respond, not as a white knight but as someone who invested into the game fairly early (around the 14 Million point) and has continued to track and enjoy the games evolution up to this point.
    While no one can say that you do not have a comprehensive and wide amount of experience in game development, to me (at least) it seems that Chris Roberts has more. While you say that Chris was not responsible for the games getting finished (which may very well be true I do not claim to know) the fact is the were. Again and again he made games that did very well. He made games (or at least had part in making) that were incredibly fun to me, and that I played again and again. Now movies… well not so much. I liked “Wing Commander” but more as a guilty pleasure. So, however he manages it, he has a large and respected number of games that he designed or oversaw that were completed. Now in comparison, your own experience is not quite as extensive. When people heard Chris Roberts was making a new game that was a huge draw (again to me at least) to check out and immediately invest in Star Citizen. Simply put, when I think of space sims I think of Chris Roberts, not Derek Smart. Again, I am NOT trying to disrespct you here, I am just stating that prior to this newstory I didn’t even know your name. I didn’t invest in Star Citizen, I invested in Chris Roberts….. because I knew his name, if that makes any sense.
    So, after all of this investigation on my part, I just cannot see where some of the comments you made make sense. Let’s start with Star Citizen going bankrupt. So they have $8 million in the bank. Well considering that’s around 10% of the total, that seems fairly normal. Most businesses operate with around 10%-15% capital on hand. You seem to dismiss the fact that Star Citizen is continually making money. They have a constant income and with more cash revenue streams opening up (more about that later) I just do not see that they have a huge amount to worry about. They have a growing fan base and from that fan base a growing stream of income from the whales who spend way more than the $45 base commitment.
    Further with another point you make, Star Citizen is now available for pre-order. What does that mean? Well nothing more than you can spend $45 and get a ship and access no differently than before. Now what it says is very important. Every major game prior to release goes on pre-order these days. I cannot think of a single triple A title that has not in the last couple of years. So I suspect that Star Citizen will soon be available on Steam as a pre-order. This will increase the revenue base (as I mentioned previously) and will get even more people talking about and buying Star Citizen (pre-alpha)… again I suspect a “pre-alpha” release on Steam, for the same reasons. Further, Saitek is coming on board with their own controllers for Star Citizen. SC will get a cut of whatever they make, and there is another revenue stream. If Star Citizen is seeking private financing… I would not be surprised nor would it bother me as it again is just another revenue stream. I mean CIG is a corporation and can sell shares, etc. There is nothing abnormal here except that a fairly small game company is doing it. The larger ones do it as well, in fact almost everything you have stated about the financial dealings at Star Citizen (to include waste on stupid coffee machines) is fairly common.
    Now as to Chris Roberts making a ton of money here. Why not? It’s his game, his company and his creation. In what scenario would he not be paid a ton of money? He is the CEO of a (so far anyway) successful venture. I personally do not care for his wife, and while I guarantee there is some nepotism there as you claim… so what. Again, this is just business as usual. If she does the job she is paid for, well again… so what? This honestly seems to be a pattern with Chris, he develops a game franchise, creates a company to make it, gets it off the ground and then sells it. As long as Star Citizen gets off the ground and eventually full fills what I expect for it as a game, again who cares? Personally I would not have jumped on board without Chris’s name up front but now, the game can be made with or without him. I suspect though that it will be completed though.
    You keep returning to that original release dates. Again, who cares. Every major title now changes release dates, and none of them have had the huge change in scope that Star Citizen has. Star Citizen has always been offered as a stand alone first in Squadron 42 (another thing you keep coming back to for some reason) and a persistent universe MMO after. Will the huge increase in funding, of course the dates change because they can do more add more and make the game (both Squadron 42 and the PU) even better. I fail to understand why this is such an issue. You have said they were going to chop up the game so they could get it released. Well isn’t that what everyone does, even yourself? You release a main game, then release add-ons with more episodes etc. Every major and minor title does this anymore so again I fail to see the issue. If Squadron 42 gets released with 10-20 missions, and 3 months later 10-20 missions are added, and 3 months later…. again I think you get the idea. I don’t think anyone would be terribly upset by this and I am only talking about the stand alone. If the PU takes another year… ok. I mean honestly they are only 2 years and what 9 months into development (from end of Kickstarter)? I just don’t see the problem.
    This is just a bit of what I want to comment on, but clearly it is running long. I don’t intend to be a troll here. This is simply my honest opinion.
    Best of Luck
    Robert Smith

  197. Daniel: I’ve stated time and time again, that if they are around by the end of Q1/16 (Mar), that I would be very surprised.

  198. InTheDark: It doesn’t matter if the company is crowd-funded or not, for them to have a high burn rate. It all depends on how they run their business.

    btw, they are apparently building out a new office in LA; though that work is currently on hold due to some dispute with the contractor. This is the office that apparently comes with the $20K coffee machine. Also, the entrance is apparently designed like one of the ships (I’ve forgotten which one). So uhm, yeah, more unnecessary expenses.

  199. Realistically the only thing really releasable by 2018 will be Squadron 42.
    If they achieve the end of 2016 with a 1st chapter release (removing many parts of the development out of it, like FPS/boarding missions, etc. and letting just the standard pew-pew and walking in a carrier in the first chapter), I will consider that outstanding results, considering the situation that their messed up marketing approach let them.

  200. She should quit, but they should still let her as a wingman in the Squadron 42 story. This way, in the moment of having to sacrifice some wingman to proceed to a successful mission, a choice between one wingman or other, the choice would not be so hard. 😀

  201. “I also can’t shake the feeling (I have no concrete evidence, call it a hunch) that there’s a little demon sitting on Chris’s shoulder,”

    Nope. It’s Roberts himself. He is just that guy who does not care with people’s money after he got them. They all become “slaves of his wish”. IT does not matter who. Be an usual consumer, an angel-investor or an actual publishers. He always had this personality, this, celebrity complex. It happens with a lot of people who make some success and get some notoriety when it’s too new.

    You see this happening even in his decisions. For example, he puts a guy, of “some talent”, but without any experience in the game industry, as head of UI, He is obviously thinking that its another “him”, because he really thinks that he is a kind of super-god game designer.

    You know. How many developers started to make success so new? How many went to the Movie Industry to produce/direct Hollywood stars and movie projects? The ego of the guy simply blinds him about the reality. That he has some cool ideas, as any other person could have, but that his past success, in general, weren’t success to his leadership, but due others putting him back on track. And now, he seems lost, without anyone to put him back on track. With all the money and fanaticism over him. It’s a receipt for a disaster.

    And it’s Roberts. Nobody else. And while he can make the game that he wants to play, he actually cannot made it without earning a loooot of money. He is a money lover. He wouldn’t make anything, just for love, as some people in the game industry, actually does.

  202. Yep. Taking CIG down CIG is what Roberts is trying to do, apparently. His decisions to grab easy/quick money are all against the future and continuity of Star Citizen and CIG. Sometimes I think that he just want the wife’s plan to work, regardless the future consequences.
    As well as he is clearly interested to earn reputation of Hollywood actors direction/production, etc. Both for him and for his wife. You know, that one which appears in the middle of cast with other actual stars. It’s curious, because, no other CIG employee was in that list. I don’t doubt, many are better actors than her.

  203. Actually, I understood this slightly different than you, meaning that I don’t agree with the statement that was put in indefinite hold. Quoting Ben Lesnick:

    “the Baby PU is NOT replacing Star Marine, it’s simply going to include a lot of the work we’ve done on the FPS. We still intend to release Star Marine proper (with Gold Horizon and the HQ game mode and all that.)”

    I don’t think that it was in “indefinite hold”. Because it seems not the case. They are still developing that apparently, but will launch it in a different form. First, with the elements developed in the Baby PU, then in the “Simulator mode”, Arena Commander style, a video-game inside the game: “Star Marine”.

    The delay was indeed, indefinite. But it was not “put on hold”. On hold to me, seems they stopping to work on that, to work in other things, and that does not seem the case. They just dropped the priority of the development of the Star Marine release format. On hold to me, would be if they totally stopped to develop anything related to those features.
    It’s important to have in mind too, that “Star Marine” is not a game as promised by itself. Are just features supposed to have in the final game, thought to be packaged in an earlier releasable form for testing (and more cash grabbing). But what matters to the game are the features that are part of that.

    That’s my point of view about this issue. I have to agree, in part with you and in part with Ben Lesnick notions about this matter. Indefinite meaning cancelled is bullshit. It’s drama and Lesnick pathetically trying to justify a fact shared by one of its developers – damage control. But “indefinitely on hold” is also wrong, for what is the purpose of the development and for Star Marine itself.

    “The release delayed indefinite” is the right thing to have been said by that time, just as that dev of CIG announced it.

  204. To me half CitCon looked like the behind the scenes of a movie showing Chris directing actors. It’s like he is holding on to Hollywood dreams and using backer funding for it.

    Isn’t that the MoCap studio they built? Won’t they keep that if the whole thing blows up?

  205. dsmart, you claim to have insights to the company’s financial situation. You don’t seem to think they have many months left. Many of us would like to hear your official statement, a “last date” if you will. I claim that by the end of Q1/16 they will still have roughly same number of employees, and the game will still be getting significant updates. Your response would be perfectly suited as a reference for the future.

  206. Im curious Are those staged demos from Citizen con playable? I mean the one that involve hunting for a disabled ship, and the recent one with FPS inside station.

  207. I did the same- just comparing to Frontier because their financial reports are public their cost is about $117 KUSD/year but they only have one studio. If you take the number of current contractors at CIG and halve it for last year and halve it again for 2013 you will get around $53 MUSD. Lots of stuff is a wash like the ecommerce site and advertising/conventions. But CIG has Illfonic contract, Mocap, actors, etc. and I think reasonable to estimate $10 MUSD for those. So conservatively CIG has spent $63 MUSD already. Burn rate means they need at least $93 MUSD to survive another year. So do-able as long as it isn’t worse than that- which it very well could be if they bought many aircraft wing tables and took a bunch of flights first-class. The Santa Monica studios are nicer than I would expect from a crowdfunded group, but I’m not familiar with the real-estate market so maybe DS can comment on that? I wonder if the initial “tech demo” year of work was “paid back” from backer funds? That would add another 1-2 million.

  208. I read most of the weekly updates on star marine for the last few months..
    The impression I came away with was It was largely complete except all the animations needed some work and that’s what they’d be focusing on to release it in “weeks not months”. Now maybe it’s just me, but I thought the animations at citcon looked worse then gamescom. That’s probably why you only see other characters for a moment, and no 3rd person views this time. So what the hell have they really been doing?

  209. Miles: They now have 260 people as per the CitCon presentation. Our internal calculations peg their expenditure to date, short of $80m. Which would lend credence to the $8m left in the bank statements being passed around.

    Also, note that these numbers do not account for malfeasance, fraud etc because all of that – if they exist – can only be uncovered either through a lawsuit (in which the financials are requested in discovery) or investigation if/when they fold. Similar to the demise of 38 Studios whereby the investigation didn’t uncover any criminal wrongdoing, just mismanagement.

  210. Nobody wants CIG to fail. #BlackKnightsMatter is simply a movement to gain accountability. Something CIG should’ve done a long time ago.

  211. “My single worry is the budget.”

    That should be everyone’s worry.
    I know many have already done this, but I took the time yesterday to – as the lawyer said was possible – evaluate their budget based on what’s publicly available. Now I believe Chris Roberts gave the number of $128,000 a year to fully employ someone in the game industry.. If you believe the chart showing the # of employees at Citcon, that’s ~$46,000,000 gone already. Now it gets tricky as that doesn’t include all the contractors working on the game. I remember hearing as many as 200 other people working on the game.. now I’m sure not for 3 years, so lets say 1.5 years. Now that still isn’t fair as I’m guessing there was also a similar ramping up involved.. but when you add over 2 months in the finest hollywood mocap studio with several AAA celebrity voice actors, $38,000,000 doesn’t seem so crazy.

    So long story short… on my first try, ~$8,000,000 left and a minimum burn rate of $2,880,000 a month.
    If these numbers aren’t true, why hasn’t Chirs Roberts said differently? He could’ve ended this whole backlash by stating 2 numbers anytime in the last few months. Unless it’s true and lying about it will only get him in more trouble

  212. Banis: I don’t think the plan was to put that many players in the same world. It’s going to be sharded. Which is why they keep talking about zoning in their dev logs.

  213. LOL I don’t know who the hell Derek Smart was, until white knight throw him in my face. Apparently DS is the conspiracy behind all SC criticism. DS ruined SC that is why he was kicked out and he is no body compare to Christ R, fans need not to fear Smart, because he has no power, he is nothing to SC, but he ruined SC anyway. DS game is so unpopular that only 3 people play it, no body heard of this shitty obscure dev, but every SC hater is a DS fanboy. DS cult is living in a fantasy, because DS game has bad graphic, bad review, bad user experience, unlike the imaginary space ship vaporware you can buy which is the reality that evil DS cult is ignoring.

  214. I am a SC backer too, But I Know they will burn with PU, Yes ok Cig will publish SQ 42 episode 1, but PU? how? 1000000 players? do they have a tech to place just 10000 players in same universs? or just 100? i think NO, not yet…so, 500000 people decide to log on? what will happen? Do they have quantum computers for such mass or something?

  215. I think she is maybe an insecure person who doesn’t believe in her own strengths enough to admit she is married to Chris and that any contributions made to the effort were come by honestly. This could become a paranoia and definitely a detriment to the working atmosphere within the office but such a situation is too hard to correct given her relationship. Most people will need to work around this and I hope it doesn’t add more derailment to the game development than it already has.

  216. Nash: a screenshot, the original order email etc all will suffice. no need for billing info (bank, paypal, credit card etc)

  217. I have a lousy feeling in the pit of my stomach that this was her endgame.

    1 million backers, over 90 million dollars.

    Sandi got what she wanted.

    Backers did not.

    Speculation: when the internet furor rose, Chris got an earful of “BUT I’M NOT FAMOUS YET AND IT’S GONNA ALL BE RUINED” hence the sudden shift to SQ42.

  218. It’s not, which is what makes it so sad & funny at the same time. People are unable to separate their opinion of a person from what a person does or says. In other words, most of modern society is under the collective delusion that truth is subjective, and the quantifier of whether something that was said is true or not is their personal opinion of the person who says it.

    Which is funny because anyone who passed a 3rd grade science class knows that the truth isn’t something that you get to vote on, or as David Gerrold put it “Reality is all the crap that doesn’t care if you believe in it or not.” Character has nothing to do with. Even if every single character attack that the SC fanboi’s have said about D.Smart were true, so what? It doesn’t make him wrong.

    Yet when the cult mentality is at work it plays out like this: If Smart steps outside at 2pm and says the sky outside is blue, the fanbois will go argue that over in Australia it’s actually night time and therefore Smart is wrong. Meanwhile, if Roberts steps outside at 2am and says the sky outside is blue, those same fanbois will go argue that over in Australia it’s actually day time and therefore Roberts is right.

    Actually, I take all all that back. The fanbois would just call Derek names and then run off to high-five each other over their “victory.” Meanwhile, reality would continue to be cleanly shut out, lest it contaminate the hive. And so long as character attacks are all that is needed to convince the fanbois then there is no reason for Roberts to ante up anything better… at least until the lawyers show up.

    Personally, I’ve tried very hard to stay as neutral as possible (as in all things). I’ve played BC3000, and honestly I was unimpressed. I don’t play LoD at all. I liked the Wing Commander series, and Freelancer too, though even David Warner couldn’t save that travesty of a movie attempt. By all rights I should have ended up on Roberts’ side but, like I said, personal opinions do not change the truth. On Derek’s end I’ve seen good arguments, lots of citations and a demonstration of knowledge. On Roberts’ side I’ve seen obfuscation, backtracking, cheap character attacks… and that’s pretty much it.

    In the end I always go with the evidence, not wishes. The subject is and always has been SCs ability to remain solvent and deliver the product that Roberts promised. They can throw darts at pictures of Smart all day if they want, it doesn’t matter. Any and all attempts to deflect the conversation away from the real issue only shows that they’re trying to hide something. I, and many others, want to know what that is.

  219. I agree with the above interpretation of citcon – though remember I’m an admitted fan 🙂

    To me – if they put this in the hands f backers and it works it is definate “proof of concept” that the foundation of the PU is, in fact, possible and that the main game construction challenges have been solved.

    My single worry is the budget. Can they sustain this development to end of 2017 or even 2018? I realistically think the PU might take till 2018.
    I believe SQ42 will come Q4 2016 at the latest. Will that mean renewned funding? I dont know – many have paid for it already. Depends on the broad appeal I guess. It could go through the roof or it go give almost zero extra funds.

    In any case the train will come to an end for the Derek Smart vs CIG controntation long before that. Either by end of 2015 or end Q1 2016. I admire the “end game” announcement from the blog owner but it is a double edged sword. If PU alpha goes live to backers in 2015 and CIG continues current manning and development effort through to Q1 2016 AND all the major conjectures are still unverified this chapter is closed for me.

  220. It just occurred to me the reasoning behind Chris’s ridiculous diatribe response to the Escapist article:

    He’s selling an image, not a product.

    Think about real companies, that make real products. How long have huge special interest groups been trying to take down companies like Coca-Cola? Corn syrup is unhealthy, we had rats tie little ropes and hang themselves after drinking Coke. The rats got so fat we had to use industrial mining equipment to bury them. Etc.

    Yet Coke lives on. The CEO of the company doesn’t take 8 hours to write long paranoid rants and personal attacks. They have an actual professional PR person who usually makes a 1-2 sentence response and they keep shipping product. Some of you are probably knocking back a soda while drinking this.

    Star Citizen, on the other hand, is a concept. It is not a product. What’s been released is complete shit. Everything else is images, movies, demos, websites, vacuous “progress updates” that say nothing, press statements, and fan gatherings. Tons of money creating the illusion. It’s like they’re making a “Truman Show”-style reality show about game development, where the illusion of showing people a busy game studio is the first priority. Actually making a game is a distant second.

    In a case like that, where you don’t have a project, image is everything. Image is what keeps the money flowing in. And image is what can be damaged very easily, especially on the internet. So suddenly, a few people question the project, an article showing that some people think things might be bad, and CR goes into overdrive, using his rabid fans as his personal internet PR army. This is because they understand how quickly opinions change online – how fast those doubts spread.

    If he had enough money to finish this game (which he said he did), then there is literally nothing anyone can do to stop it. Certainly not a single article, much less a single person. The fact that he wrote his litany indicates to me that he knows the money has to keep flowing, so in a panic he released his manifesto to his minions.

    I firmly believe that literary mind dump will one day be identified as the beginning of the end for this project. It even split backers into two camps – the people that would follow Chris Roberts into a wood-chipper if he told them to (while paying for it with a “donation” mind you), and the people who read it and started to say to themselves, “you know, this guy is kinda nuts.”

    I also can’t shake the feeling (I have no concrete evidence, call it a hunch) that there’s a little demon sitting on Chris’s shoulder, whispering in his ear, leading him in all the wrong directions. This little demon would be female, and has her own agenda with this project, and the money it’s bringing in. We’ve all seen this phenomenon before, perhaps in our own friends and families. I suspect Erin Roberts would agree with this assessment, and I gotta hand it to that man for keeping it together the way he does. He has the hardest job in the world right now, watching his brother getting manipulated into complete self-destruction, but he keeps his mouth shut and keeps plugging along. Erin Roberts is all pro, and he gets mad props from me.

  221. Hey Derek, what can I use as a proof of purchase? Is a screenshot from my order history on the RSI website sufficient?

  222. Nash: We are getting lots of emails from people who are either not getting responses to their refund request, or having their refund amounts significantly reduced. If you don’t get anyway, please email wethebackers at outlook dot com with your info and proof of purchase. We’ve got quite a hefty list of people interested in being part of a class action.

  223. Sources are still trying to figure wtf that was about. She was going to quit. But as they’ve stated, it’s not the first time she’s threatened to do it.

  224. Did you do anything special? Just email support@cig and ask them? I tried that initially and was brushed off by their customer support.

  225. Unfortunately I didn’t back on KS, I foolishly used the Star Citizen website during the pre-KS pledge phase. I’ve sent another request for a refund, this time pointing out I’m aware others have received them.

    If they’re not forthcoming with my money I’ll send the entire correspondence, including a laughable long-winded apology from one of their CS reps, to wethebackers.


  226. Backers didn’t give CIG $1 so that they could spend $2 to make $3. Backers gave CIG $1 to make a game. If they spend the money on anything besides game development this is called fraud. Fraud is defined as “wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.” That’s precisely what CIG did with the HEAP C3MS platform.

    P.S. I realize “Ky” is not exactly flattery, but who cares… I have a fan! yay \o/

  227. I admit I was disappointed at seeing Sandi included with all the A List “Tier 0” actors (high poly count) as if she was a natural talent and already accomplished for that level, it gave me pause that some of the other thoughts on being unqualified and nepotistically placed are true, that the game funding is a personal venue for self-promotion and advancement in other areas of life.

  228. Now that we have a business day in the books, have your sources been able to provide any more information regarding “The Speech” (not the SQ42 one, but the Sandi Gardiner one)? I’m still wondering what that was all about.

  229. Apparently it is. I’m the boogie man, remember? As soon as you say something negative about Star Citizen, someone either goes 1) Oh look over there! Derek Smart! or 2) Line Of Defense sux and only 3 people playing it.

    It’s all interesting to me really. Especially when you consider that long after the collapse, I will still be here doing what I love: building games, not dreams

  230. Kymode: Aren’t you forgetting that the backers/newer people benefit from this first. Turbulent then used their developed engine for their other projects.

    Similar to: The goverment funding an off-shore wind farm by awarding the contract to private company X. X develops the technology, builds the farm for the government, then uses the same developed technology to sell more farms to company Y.

  231. So who all is in derek’s cult? I’ve seen maybe 2-3 people actually defend his games. I certainly never played one as it sounds like they’re painfully complicated.

    Wasn’t the attack line supposed to be, Derek’s incompetent and nobody plays LOD? Now all of the sudden DS is the cult leader taking people’s money who needs to face accountability? (and somehow CR doesn’t)
    The argument is mature as “I know you are but what am I!”

    I don’t recall Derek ever asking anyone for money or faith.. or anything really.
    The worst you could say about him honestly is he’s an opinionated asshole who lives in an echo chamber. Not A Cult.

  232. there is a segment of market that have zero interest in MMOs. But a decided interest in cinematic single player games. Chris Roberts original pitch was to buiłd a universe, within which games could be played. A pre-order is a stronger commitment than a pledge, they are aiming to expand their market, because at some point you reach saturation.

  233. “The multi-crew/Constellation gameplay was just horrible and painful to watch seeing mass-less ship trying to be piloted in such a way as to not appear mass-less and CR that saying it:”Careful on landing such a big ship!” almost make me puke…..”

    As one of the guys more towards the SC backer end of the spectrum, I agree completely that the constellation moved way to quickly. It looked like shit. I just want to say though, that this isn’t because the ship is mass less, but because the maneuvering thrusters are WAY WAY WAY overpowered, making the ship maneuver too quickly to look good. This is one of the main problems with the game currently.
    But about the caution in landing, that’s totally warranted. The ship moves very quickly, and it does indeed have mass, so a very common occurrence is that when trying to land, you tap strafe down, and you slam into the landing pad at 20m/s and crush your landing gear. This happens with the fighters in game, and it is annoying.

    It’s possible to land nicely in decoupled mode, so you just drift to the landing pad at 0.5 m/s and touch down nicely. Unfortunately, the stupidly overpowered thrusters combined with coupled mode(dumbed down flying) and employees who frankly don’t fly too well makes the flying look like shit.

    This gif shows the difference between coupled and decoupled landing:
    Apparently, the constellation is as quick as a dogfighter. This is bad, but whatever all they need to do is reduce the power of the thrusters. It’s a quick edit.

  234. You keep asserting that nothing tangible was shown.

    A baseline incremental AC 1.0 patch
    No new flyable ships
    No new social/planetside content
    No Star Marine
    No AC 2.0 / multi-crew
    No PU
    Nothing playable from SQ42

    Here is what was shown.

    A baseline incremental AC 1.0 patch
    No new flyable ships – The Constellation and Retaliator are both working in engine, which is big.
    No new social/planetside content – I don’t care about planetside content.
    No Star Marine – They boarded a station and had a firefight seamlessly, thats fps content, working in game
    No AC 2.0 / multi-crew – Um, that was the entire demo they showed. did you miss it?
    No PU – This is PU:
    Nothing playable from SQ42 – There was no real gameplay gameplay, but the walking and talking was not a cutscene, but a guy walking around in engine while npcs talked to him.

    You are trying to make it seem like them going from releasing fps and multi crew as separate modules to releasing all of it at once as a more complete alpha of the game is a bad thing. It seems more like they got a working build of it more quickly than they expected, and are skipping the whole module bullshit and going straight to an actual alpha.

    Squadron 42 has always been a separate game from the mmo part, thats been the case since 2012. And as for dates, well, the one thing that everyone can agree on is that Christ Roberts SUCKS at giving dates. The community doesn’t want them anymore, because they are always wrong anyway, and lead to PR trouble.

    Can you honestly say that this presentation didn’t show massive progress over the last presentation? The fps is now a part of the main gameplay, not a separate mode you load into, and it went from being absolute shit to being crappy. The multicrew ship gameplay looks a lot smoother (except the janky turrets). I mean, what they showed that day is enough to play. The only thing to do now is to make the netcode work, no small task, but still. It’s a big deal that they have this much working already. If they get this alpha working online with 20-50 players, then they have a working build of star citizen, the impossible game. The only thing left would be polish and content.

    What is your reasoning for saying that they showed no progress?

  235. Agreed. Why bother with this whole Star Citizen Crap, Derek? You have done a good job in waking the community (and many more). I just checked the pledging on the Star citizen website. It says 92 mio. So there are enough people left, who don’t listen to you and keep pumping their ressources into the project.
    If you are keeping up your campaign it will be like playing a mental therapist. If you are okay with it, fine, but i would prefer to read some GOOD news from you again! Dreams, plans, discussions about your own project, Line of Defense. Please share it with us! And if you want to make the world better, don’t waste your time with scammers – instead become a politician. If I go through your actions against CIG, I really would prefer you over some of our local politicians who just talk sweet lies and never go to hard truths.

  236. Baldric: SQ42 is not the same as Star Citizen. It is a separate product. And even for that, the 2016 date is dubious. They have yet to show any meaningful playable content for a game that’s supposedly due out in 2016.

    As to refunds, they are being selective; and people tell us they have to keep threatening them. In fact, one person (a poster here) sent me an email last week in which they were only going to refund him half (around $500) of his full pledge (around $1,000).

    I doubt that they will release any financial info without a lawsuit.

    So no, they haven’t fulfilled any of my requirements.

  237. The only thing that I can think of is that they are trying to alleviate the crowd-funding legal issues they are about to face for not shipping a project. The game isn’t finished. So it’s either crowd-funded pledge or a pre-purchase. Problem is, anything up to 10-11-2015 is still a massive crowd-funding liability to the tune of $90m.

  238. ” the only conceivable victims of the project should it collapse as you’ve suggested”

    Actually the biggest losers here are smaller developers that are increasingly dependent on crowd sourcing dev costs with platforms like Kickstarter.

    THAT is why more developers are looking at the schedule, burn-rate, income and deliverables with a fine-tooth-comb. If they go down, they’ll take most small (risky) projects with them.

  239. Hi Derek,

    I would like to thank you for your very civil response to my previous question. Although not agreeing with you on all points, I found it informative and interesting.

    In many countries, particularly Australia where I live, the term “Pre-Order” has legal meaning. Specifically any product sold as a Pre-Order must be advertised with a delivery date. Said delivery date can be generalized to a month and a year, or even just a year.

    I’m not sure if you noticed in the Admiral Bishop speech video at the very end, after the cast they had a date of 2016.

    So since CIG is providing refunds to Kickstarter backers and the fact that they have a release date for Squadron 42, thus fulfilling two of the demands from your original demand letter. This leaves only one demand remaining, which is for a forensic accounting of their books. Given that privately owned companies typically only need to show their books to their shareholders and the government (on occasion), what precedent is there (if any) that could possibly justify CIG showing their books to anyone but their shareholders?

    Having achieved two of your original 3 goals, the third being questionable. What cause do you have left to continue your campaign? Do you really think that backers are cult members? Are you trying to save these cult members? If so how? Or are you simply trying to stop people from joining?

    I guess really when it gets down to it, I’m trying to determine your motivation. Are you genuinely trying to help protect people from someone you perceive as dangerous? Or are you just waging a campaign against someone you feel personally slighted by? Honestly, it is really hard to tell sometimes.

    Baldric Black

  240. Derek,

    Did you see this?

    October 7, 2014 – Marc Beaudet (CEO of Turbulent) writes “We thank Cloud Imperium Games for taking a risk with us and for contributing conceptually and commercially to making HEAP C3MS fantastic for content monetization.”

    April 7th, 2014 – URBULENT’s HEAP C3MS platform was recently selected by Behaviour Interactive for the development of their Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade Pre-order Founders Program store and their new website which will be unveiled next spring during E3.

    The Backers basically gave CIG money who then funded the development of a crowdfunding / preorder platform with Turbulent (Star Citizen’s webmasters) that Behaviour (also working on Star Citizen) then took and used for Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade.

    What the absolute fuck?! How is this NOT a misappropriation of crowdfunded money? Backers didn’t pay for this. They’d paid for a video game.

  241. Oops, just read MDrakes explanation below, ignore previous comment if theres nothing more to add, cheers.

  242. Sorry for being dumb, but could you please explain why they have gone from Pledge to Pre-Order? I’m guessing its to get them off the hook somehow but if you could clarify, that’d be helpful.

  243. “Though they may chop it up and release episode 1 at some point in 2016.”

    This has been the goal for two years. Last I heard, they were splitting it up into three sections in 2016, and two more the follow year, at 50 missions, 10 missions each section. All of these are included as SQ42 and we will not be charged for the accompanying missions discs.

    A baseline incremental AC 1.0 patch – That will add something we’ve never seen to the game.
    No new flyable ships – Herald is next up if you’ve been watching community content.
    No new social/planetside content – They stated more will be added when Multi-crew drops as this is now the AC 2.0 / Multi-crew.
    No Star Marine – Weekly Updates
    No AC 2.0 / multi-crew – The has been dropped and is now Alpha PU.
    No PU – Alpha looks pretty close to me.
    Nothing playable from SQ42 – Ok.

    “Oh, and now, SQ42 is apparently going to be a stand-alone product. So the “buy it now as part of Star Citizen” cash grab has begun. Note how it’s now a “pre-order” instead of a “pledge to the dream”. You get one guess why that is.”

    This is how it has always worked. The sooner you get it, the cheaper you get it.

    “In short, they have spent fours years and $91.5m and thus far are nowhere near shipping the game as promised. But the whales keep funding it.”

    There is nothing conclusive here.

  244. Mr. Smart,

    You’ll have to forgive me for not knowing on how to quote on your comments individually in the blog so I will attempt to respond in kind in for what I can guess would be a more drawn out fashion.

    In my thoughts I had forgotten about Ortwin’s letters but you are right in that this is unbecoming of an attorney and does bring to light the type of people we are dealing with. With the actions of Mr. Robert’s diatribe followed by “the Escapist” standing their ground I do believe that thanks to you blog and the willingness of the publisher of the magazine to stand by their journalist which attests to journalistic integrity and ethics of that organization, as well as your previous blog posts have left a trail for one to trace back the actions of Cloud Imperium Games.

    I did also see the ludicrous allegations Ortwin made regarding “criminal conduct” and I must admit that I did have a chuckle over that too. Not only, by definition due to their relationship to this project are they in fact “public figures” but without repeating what lawyers have already said – all this information is available publicly in public records or IMDB, etc.
    They are deflecting the real question – money. Financial reports regarding this project, which is by all accounts the largest crowdfunding campaign in history, should not be unreasonable to ask for and the fact they are trying to drown out those who dare to ask likely infuriates many and fuels other to continue to pressure the question.

    Cloud Imperium Games itself, or at least its leadership believe they are untouchable by all accounts based on their action including that spectacle of rather unbelievable acting by Mrs. Sandi Roberts nee Gardner at the start of “CitizenCon” but I see very well through what I’ve seen so far as I have not watched the entire recording or even your commentary on it.

    However, my point is that while we all may have our own complexes due to life experiences – I myself have been compared to the fictional character “Root” / “Samantha Groves” from CBS’ ‘Person of Interest’ more times than I can count but I would never have the audacity to stand up with $90 million in donated money and say “you have no right to know what I did with it.”

    What I did see, aside from Squadron 42’s opening cut scene while looked fantastic – did absolutely nothing to show off Squadron 42 was a rebranding of all the previous modules as “Star Citizen v0” which I believe is a direct result of the pressure they are being placed under by those of us questioning them now.

    I am looking forward to continuing to follow this as you make your efforts to help give a voice for everyone who has now begun to truly doubt the validity of Star Citizen. Like I said a while ago, I backed Star Citizen only after Elite: Dangerous came out because I thought “here are two games no one believed would come out and one of them just did, so what’s the harm” but I think I am finding out what the harm is.

    As per your request, I will send you an email to your account at As I have Outlook open on a secure tunnel I’ll do it through my work email and CC my personal email though as you might imagine I always check my work email more than my personal address. I look forward to hearing from you.

  245. I would mostly agree with this, but Derek’s word is worth a bit more than Chris’s.

    It doesn’t even matter if you think everything Derek has ever released is trash – in the end, the games shipped, and he funded it. He didn’t ask for the public’s cash to do it.

    Chris, on the other hand, has an enormous, documented history of doing exactly what he’s doing right now.

    Imagine if a kickass Doom movie was coming out (let’s pretend that the Doom movie that DID come out does not exist, work with me here): you and I both know that film could rock. Think of Aliens, The Thing, etc. The concept could support a great sci-fi horror flick – all the elements are there.

    Now imagine Uwe Boll is directing. Uh-oh! We now know the movie will suck. Without any other evidence – the documented history of the director defines the destiny of the project.

    Derek has stated opinions about the technical feasibility of the project, and that’s one thing. I don’t 100% agree that it CAN’T be done. But I do agree that CHRIS can’t do it.

    What surprises me the most about this, is that the people who claim to believe in this project are completely and utterly blind to the fact that it’s Chris himself who is ensuring it will fail. As backers, we should be DEMANDING that Chris step down, along with the other members of the terrible trio, and put someone competent at the helm. Use that White Knight vitriol that is currently being used to send Derek death threats, and all that White Knight money, and put it to positive use – ensure the project sees the light of day, even if it takes another 3 years and another 100 million dollars, by removing the cancer at the root. The backers should be calling for his head by now.

    Regarding Derek’s proof, that is like when the media reports on military actions before they occur – it gives the other side intel they can use to evade that very same action. It has to say secret until the hammer drops.

    And as you stated, that’s when the rubber hits the road – everyone will know the truth one way or another in time.

  246. Derp: It falls in line with all my commentary. If they make it through 2016, which is highly unlikely, then they will obviously have to release part of SQ42.

  247. You said “Though they may chop it up and release episode 1 at some point in 2016.”

    This has always been the plan, to release it in Episode, nice to see you agree that they will be releasing the game at some point, contradicting your “They will never ship this game EVER” statement

  248. My impression of the CitCon…..

    -It starts with a big Drama that was played badly by Sandi G. later on the MAN start his usual talks&promises and finally we are been showed what’s new in the “verse”(that’s just horrible name for space).

    -PU demo show 2 us some pretty assets and as usual excellent GFX but same shallow gameplay that we are been seeing in AC. The FPS looked extremely fast and twitchy honestly I am not excited about it at all,they almost didn’t mention Star Marine but I could not care less about that piece of…

    -SQ42 demo/intro/rundown is the answer where is the backers money invested,can’t said that demo and acting was bad couse it wasn’t but it was the cliche of the so many AAA games out there or big budget Hollywood movies nothing new or refreshing there.

    -The multi-crew/Constellation gameplay was just horrible and painful to watch seeing mass-less ship trying to be piloted in such a way as to not appear mass-less and CR that saying it:”Careful on landing such a big ship!” almost make me puke…..

    -At the end is worth to mention Star map that looks really cool and vivid with the nice music ambient….All in all DS didn’t miss almost nothing when he informed us what we should expected from the CitCon,now we will see what backers going to get in few following month’s to play and if nothing significant hit the game play and FM before the new year I recon that much more backers will starts to scratch their heads and to realize that SC is never going to be the game they are been pitched few years back…

  249. “It’s only data and no game model exists.”

    No finished model as of yet, but they are in the white-box phase of the model at the moment, and the white-boxed model is in the game files already

  250. After a own member of CIG bullying me, earlier 2013, besided they banning me, because my feedback apparently was too dangerous to the positions/celebrity status of some key members of the Staff team, and the drama queen looking to the other side and offending me, and demonstrating that took an earlier feedback to an area, not to her, as “fobbing her” (, fanboys, encouraged by the attitude of the own company keep doing their nut job.
    Created many threads in their Forums, Reddit, about me, creating all kinds of lies or twisting the reality, turning the table as if CIG was victim and they were victims. Apparently, they also investigated my personal life enough, to gather information like personal address, personal phone, job, information about friends and family. Along the time, trying to show that in public, so I see, like suggesting a threat, obviously. Because why the hell not right? Even the company do shit like that with consumers to make their gaps disappearing of the public attention.
    Recently, I received this warning on Reddit:
    Besides, the own company lied about me too in public, when stated that Derek Smart was banned and refunded without asking, just like that did with others, including “the most famous troll” : me, because that was what they transformed me. Which is interesting. Specially when Sandi Gardiner complained of my incredible long email that was a waste of time of the CEO/CFO (actually was important feedback for problems that they could prevent, they didn’t and then suffered with such problems). Because before, the “troll” sent her another incredible long email to tell about how he was helping to promote CIG in his country, and giving other suggestions. So, if that is a waste of time, why Sandi answered for the other incredible long email that I sent, with praises, instead constructive criticism, at this form:
    The true is that Ben Lesnick lied in public not just about Derek Smart ban, but also about the fact that I was refunded without asking. I had to demand my refund three times. And in the last time, was with Cloud Imperium committing a true abuse that the refund only never really paid for, besides revealing who they really are, and making easy to see what was going on, since then.
    And yesterday, a member of the SC cult created a twitter accounts using my user name and image, and started to answer to people who follows me, or I chat, pretending to be me. Posting things like this: or claiming that I was under “medicine”.
    The thing is, between that “incredible long email” that Sandi talked that was a waste of time, was actually a prediciton that the way that CIG was forging their community would lead to situation like that with people that would just like to exercise what was promised that they would be… to give feedback. Recently, CIG have been not tolerating trolls, harassing people in their forums, just because they have more critics to say than praises. Still, its in rare ocasions. They still will look to the other side, most of the times, and find sins in the words of “troublemakers” (as they call people with feedback that despite true, despite important, they don’t want to hear in public, specially) very quickly.
    Most recentely, the banning of the famous fan, long participant of the forums Beer4TheBeerGod. And many others that are usually banned when they try to exercise feedback. And CIG keep forging and feeding their Army of White Knights as doing ok, as doing the right thing on defending them, no matter what. Never, I mean NEVER CIG came to public to ask to their backers do not harass people’s personal life online, just because they have criticism. Instead, they embrace those white knights, congrats them for their support, give prizes, promote them in shows as “examples” and others things like that (like they did with the member Wulf Knight, one of the biggest harassers of the SC community, which deserved special notes, by helping CIG with a lot of money and been a member example, that truly “supports” CIG.
    This is the kind of thing that CIG does. Because apparently, whatever means justify the ends in their point of view. What is valid for them, is invalid for others. A feedback that does not paint them as saints, angels, heroes, gods, and reveal flaws and gaps, instead been looked as important to not to be ignored, and solved, will not just be ignored (which they have the right to do it), but they will demonize the person enough, so others do not listen and make pressure for things that they should do, if they care with consumers.
    Finally, once again, I bring to attention that CIG build a crowdfunding platform in his own website and limited the feedback of the public to their forums. At the same time, FTC came to public and said that if consumers think that something is wrong, they should report to FTC, to State GA and alert other consumers in the place where the crowdfunding driving is going on. So, my question for FTC is how I could do that, if CIG is banning people when they try, and encouraging people to harass the personal life of those who try to do that outside of their walls? FTC probably will answer that it’s bad faith and CIG is just using their Forums as a marketing tool, doing false advertising.
    Even that some feeddback is allowed, everyone knows that its true and those who say the contrary, are pretending or are blind due fanboyism, or did not have too much time yet to look how the things happens there.
    Cloud Imperium Games cannot walk free from all this. No “incredible” game can justify all the shit that they are doing. All the disrespect to laws, to consumers, to FTC statements regarding crowdfunding practices.
    As Jacque Fresco says: This shit go to go! (

  251. I still see “Squadron 42 Digital Download” as a part of offered game packages. The SQ42 pre-order is currently the same as the other $45 starter packages.

    My guess is that they are calling it a pre-order to ride the hype bandwagon. And since the website is such a mess, calling it a “pre-order” will make prospective buyers more comfortable in dropping their cash.

    I’m starting to worry I may need to go to the BBB to get my refund.

  252. kxmode: I was setting up my live stream to chat during CitCon stream. A bunch of White Knight tossers spam reported the channel. I got this email:

    “Your account at was the subject of a Terms of Service suspension for violating the following category: Non-Gaming, Non-Music Content. As a result, we have given you a 24-hour restriction from using the site.”

  253. Von: As I’ve said before, I don’t believe that anyone in their right minds would touch this when it fails. It’s too much “stuff” with nothing tangible. Even I couldn’t rescue it. I’m used to making massive games. If it crashes, unfortunately all will be lost. Sad reality.

  254. Well, CitizenCon 2015 is over. You can see the full thing over here in case you missed it. And here is a pre-recording of the demo.

    And that bit with Sandra at the beginning? Pure Hollywood drama. Thus far, nobody, not even the rabid White Knights, can figure out wtf that was about. And right at the beginning. Aside from being a terrible actress, her ability to control emotions on-the-fly, is text book [bad] acting. I swear it looked like she was about to quit (she now denies that). Then Erin ruined it. As some have indicated, clearly this looked like she pulled an audible. Why didn’t ALL of this happen at the END? You know, like before or after the birthday cake celebration?

    For my part, as impressive as the graphics have always been, there was really nothing here. Nothing at all. There was no SQ42 playable mission because, well, it doesn’t exist in any playable form yet. Which is why my sources are telling me that it’s about 15 months out. Though they may chop it up and release episode 1 at some point in 2016.

    Also note now, no dates. That’s part of the admission of the uncertainty with the project. Aside from the fact that Star Marine was due out two weeks ago and now it’s off the table indefinitely. And it’s looking a lot like it’s no longer a standalone module but rolled into the PU. Which is precisely what I had predicted would happen back when I gave my review of the social module.

    In short, they didn’t release anything of substance. Let’s tally it all up:

    A baseline incremental AC 1.0 patch
    No new flyable ships
    No new social/planetside content
    No Star Marine
    No AC 2.0 / multi-crew
    No PU
    Nothing playable from SQ42

    And yet another concept ship sale.

    And a starmap, that’s cool to play with, but useless since there is nothing to do with it.

    Yet, somehow, most backers somehow missed the fact that, well, yeah, they took away their liability to continue frequent deliveries of content.

    Oh, and now, SQ42 is apparently going to be a stand-alone product. So the “buy it now as part of Star Citizen” cash grab has begun. Note how it’s now a “pre-order” instead of a “pledge to the dream”. You get one guess why that is.

    Then there’s the referral program. For a “game” that doesn’t yet exist and which in all likelihood never will.

    In short, they have spent fours years and $91.5m and thus far are nowhere near shipping the game as promised. But the whales keep funding it.

    Let’s wind back to E3 2014, shall we? Here is the interview. And here were the dates:

    – Arena Commander 2.0 (Multicrew) by the end of the year (2014).
    – First Person Shooter module tentatively PAX Australia (Nov 2014).
    – Planetside Module (after FPS module)
    – Mini Persistent Universe (after Planetside module)
    – Backer release of Persistent Universe (end of 2015)
    – Full release of the game (mid 2016)

    Note that the game was supposed to be delivered back in Nov 2014.

    So how close was my prediction (written at the bottom of my blog)?

    CitCon is going to be more smoke and mirrors. Just like GAMESCOM and every event before it. They have nothing tangible to show. If they did, all the stuff they have recently shown, would be in backers hands by now and in decent form. In fact, you heard it here first:

    They are going to parade all the A-List actors – all of whom cost a ton of money – for SQ42. This despite the fact that the stand-alone game is reported to be almost fifteen months away from completion.

    1) They are going to show the opening cut-scene sequence for SQ42 with Gary Oldman giving his speech, someone flying and landing, NPCs waving etc.

    2) They are going to show Star Marine. Again. It’s still a mess – and nowhere ready for production release. Reports tell me that if it gets released before year end, it would be a miracle.

    3) They are going to show multi-crew. Again. Problem now is that, as of the last report I got, it doesn’t run smoothly at all. And so they are now running the demo on super computers with 16 cores, loads of memory etc. Again, not production release ready.

    4) And a new ship. Rumored to be the Vindicator fighter priced at $175 (UPDATE: This price has been increased I’ve heard)

    There is nothing new being released to backers, other than another AC patch apparently.

    I think it was spot on. Aside from the fact that some Goon I had given the name of the fighter to, made an error with the SHA-256 and the name was cracked immediately. Thus giving them enough time to change the name to Sabre. It’s only data and no game model exists. So that was a trivial change for them to make at the last minute.

    ps: This Goon pretty much sums it all up.

  255. Hi Derek,

    I can’t help but completely agree with the above poster.
    As I’ve mentioned in previous posts and what many of us wish you could do, is simply to post proof. Actual documents.

    Without it, it is mostly your opinion, your word. And your word is worth as much as the word of those supporting the project.
    Sure, you can convince some people you are right but without actual documentation it is hard to convince people like me that need more than just your word.

    Anyway, my opinion is irrelevant. The strength of your position in this matter greatly depends on you actually keeping your word and going forward with the legal process.
    If in a couple of months you’re unable to do so, your inaction will be the response many are trying to get.
    And that is, that you were just conducting a defamation campaign. If you do move forward with the legal process and actually can prove in court that you’re right, than your efforts will be greatly appreciated by everyone involved.

    The ball is on your side now.

  256. Derek, you were right. They are finished… Just had to look at CR’s face last night. He was scared shitless knowing he has nothing to show. The emperor has no clothes and you pointed that out to the cult… Thank you!!!!

  257. The mind boggles at the energy you are putting into critiquing Chris Roberts and Star Citizen, perhaps the most ambitious and democratically funded gaming project in history. It’s hard to imagine you truly are looking out for Star Citizen’s backers – the only conceivable victims of the project should it collapse as you’ve suggested – and not some strange personal vendetta or ego trip of your own construction.

    Being open-minded, I am absolutely fascinated by your bizarre prediction of Star Citizen’s implosion. No doubt the next 6-12 months will prove one of us an indelible fool.

  258. That’s video shows a level of courage many lack today. Besides the racial name-calling I thought the insights in games like No Man’s Sky was interesting.

  259. “The community has closed this channel due to terms of service violations.” What TOS violations?

  260. So when they go to auction off RIS after the bankruptcy declaration maybe you could buy it up, hire back the people that Roberts fired and finish “Vision 1.0” with your own team?

    Better than letting those parts go to waste, after all, along with whatever work has actually been finished so far. Then tell backers you’ll honor their previous purchase/pledge to RIS just to rub it in.

    Just something to think about.

  261. Well that pretty much what I expected . Sandi armature dramatics at the start shame she cant act like that all the time. The way she kept taking her emotions to the very edge of breakdown and back again .With such control that was acting plane and simple .Designed to whip up the sympathy for herself and anger towards those who question there integrity. And the intervention after she milked it for all she could with actually doing it . All staged.

    On top of the ridicules endeavour science ship sale at about $1000 dollars with all the addons. Made up by Ben in his concept dream land over the course of two weeks ,That ship will never see the light of day for the next 4 years if ever , Sale was border line criminal he is going to have a lot to answer for when people realise they where deliberately mislead.

    Then tonight we get the normal road show routine.A small staged demo involving very few players are ships in a controlled environment. Another let down and no content to play test and a meaning less gesture patch to AC , Buggies confirmed . And the promise of content soon followed by a new concept sale .

    Another highlight was CR statement as he announced the new ship sale “We only have one dogfighter ship in the game at the moment” So what does that make them other 10 one seat ships “Floating coffins”. Yet again carrot and donkey sales tactics .Stuff hyped up a year ago as being competitive to get your cash now watered down to nothing in the quest of more $. Same shit different day . SQ42 in a few years if there lucky. PU and all the pipe dream ships and features they sold is never going to happen

  262. As far as guessing games go 2 days ago, you had an image and I didn’t. I had to make pure guesses on the details of the ship. I am just really happy AND sad that I know what sells to space sim lovers.

    But yeah, goons leaked it too early.

    I forgot to mention the referral program. My god, when I first saw it on the stream, I just went “Are you shitting me?! For a game in alpha?! CIG has no god damn shame!”

  263. MDrake: Yeah, had the Goon who I gave the tip to didn’t mess up the SHA-256 and caused the Vindicator name to leak this past Thurs, they won’t have had time to change it. But it’s just data, so that was easy enough for them to change it. But I was right that it was a fighter and the Sabre being $170 is close enough to the $175 quoted for the Vindicator.

    This Goon summed up this CitizenCon nicely. I’m going to write-up a quick blog about this disappointment. If anyone now thinks this game is ever coming out, clearly they need their head examined. In fact, this interview is from E3 2014 and I quote:

    “Interview from June 2014.

    – Arena Commander 2.0 (Multicrew) by the end of the year (2014).
    – First Person Shooter module tentatively PAX Australia (Nov 2014).
    – Planetside Module (after FPS module)
    – Mini Persistent Universe (after Planetside module)
    – Backer release of Persistent Universe (end of 2015)
    – Full release of the game (mid 2016)”

  264. Great, good for you. I do not consider my money a donation and i consider it lost, as the terms of the initial agreement haven’t been met by the other party.

    If you want to donate money, you’re free to do so.

    In fact, you didn’t have to use Kickstarter or CIG’s on-line store to do so – you could’ve just sent a donation directly. It would’ve been even better for CIG, as they’d have less financial and legislative overhead.

    Have you?

  265. Wow, I am semi-accurate with my guess of the Aegis fighter. Vanguard-like cockpit, retaliator wings, twin engine, size close to super hornet; it really was a spacey F-14. Even the lore for being a 2nd phase fighter came close. Price and name can be changed easily. The sabre was apparently called the “POTATO” when I first saw its sale page. Now the website has fixed it to “sabre”. Wow, I was definitely in CIG’s demographic. WAS.

    I’m not impressed by the new multicrew demo. It was the Gamescom demo, but with extra buildings. Didn’t see any of the new flight modes in action. Idris is pretty and big. Didn’t get to see any combat at all. Was hoping for an awesome SQ42 action cinematic, but nope. They got nothing.

    Doesn’t matter if they have $8 million, even $20 million left. I did not see any substantial progress.

    And look, they are selling the Idris in a $2500 “armada pack”. A ship that was supposed to be VERY QUANTITY limited, is being sold in a giant, LTI combo pack. Sure, only 2 days, but still…

    CIG is HEELLLLLLA desperate. Chris wants to make the game he always wanted. Too bad that means more movie than an actual game.

  266. To say I don’t have facts is understandable, because that is your opinion and something I will touch on in the next paragraph, but you insinuating that I didn’t know he moved is absurd. However just because he moved doesn’t prove he used backer funds. Does that seem suspicious, it does I grant you that but I will not damn someone unless it has been proven. Just like Eric Peterson mentioning you were accusing people at Origin that they stole your ideas. It hasn’t been proven to my satisfaction; it is just hearsay just like how much cash is on hand, so I don’t hold that against you. Therefore the demands you’re making feel, and I say feel because I don’t know you personally nor do I think you would admit it, is short sighted because of how you feel you’ve been treated. I’m not saying you don’t have a right to be upset but in general, aka balance of probability; people take a given situation to an extreme when they are personally invested or if it affects someone close to them.

    To your point of facts, sure I don’t know how much his net worth or quote any direct evidence but Chris does get royalties from the Wing Commander IP, had made some good money from selling Origin, Digital Anvil and made investments that sounds pretty successful. Per Chris Roberts response to the Escapist btw. Therefore I am having a difficult time trying to grasp how you say you can have money from making games, per “…and my net worth exceeds what has gone into Star Citizen thus far”, but in the situation of Chris Roberts, he can’t? I never said he was a billionaire, I said he was wealthy, which can be a matter of perspective but it is reasonable to conclude Chris has made more than a few million and having more than one million is wealthy to me. I am under no delusion everyone can be successful but he has a steady income from SC and so does his wife. Therefore I can’t understand why people say they can’t move if they believe they have the financial freedom to do so. Is it just because people are jealous of their success and pointing fingers because they can do it and they can’t?

    Lastly, I haven’t met a fact I didn’t accept, eventually. They might be inconvenient and take time for me to process and reevaluate my position, but I always accept them and if I am wrong I will admit it. Therefore until you can prove your claims ie showing documentation and quoting someone from an accounting position at CIG or the bank and other avenues of investigation along those lines. I cannot take you’re accusations with anymore validity (I don’t think others should either tbh) than those who refute those claims because progress is being made on Star Citizen, even if it is slow and they keep missing deadlines in development. Things like that happen to any developer and you should be advocating that there isn’t a perfect system for deadlines for any game and no game developer is perfect either. Does that excuse Chris or CIG lack of transparency or continued lack updates? Hell no, there are problems but again, I blame them for their actions not what I suspect or how I feel cause I’m not getting my way.

  267. Anon: Probably because there’s nothing defamatory in my response, or legal won’t have approved it for publication? Get a grip.

  268. Brandon:

    “when Chris was all ready a wealthy man before Star Citizen”

    erm, no, that’s rubbish. And we have the public records and first account sources to prove it. In fact, he was living over a place in Marina Del Rey and moved to Pacific Palisades once the backer money started rolling in. And you talk about having facts?

  269. I fail to see how you expect to escape ridicule by responsing to CIG’s dematory response by more defamatory response, unproven facts, personal opinions and alleged statements. One would think that if you have the truth on your side like you claim, you would provide a stronger defense. Truth and facts speak much louder than alleged actions.

  270. I do not consider my money lost, its a donation. I will only consider my money lost if the game never come out, CIG goes bankrupt. Please do not twist my meaning.

    CIG has no contract, it is a legal statement protecting them legally from vultures and haters, which even the greenest entrepreneur knows to do.

  271. So why are their replacements working out of Austin still, then? Don’t be naive.

  272. Unfortunately your YouTube channel livestream isn’t shown in Germany – due to some legal problems according to YouTube. Noooo!

  273. I just tried to read Derek Smarts latest blog on how Star Citizen will fail because it all ready has in his mind. First of all, he is (still) stating rumors as fact. Generally from those who have either been fired or left, but yet he has no direct evidence or personal account and when he has been confronted, he deflects the question and will not provide the burden of proof need to cement his claim as fact. Second, the man has published personal information about Chris Roberts and his family, not okay what so ever. He accuses Chris and his wife Sandy Gardiner are using backer funds to pay for a lavish lifestyle, when Chris was all ready a wealthy man before Star Citizen. Again, no reasonable burden of proof to back up his claim or than showing off their home and putting Chris and family in danger from those who might take this man at his word and be willing to do something cruel. Third, this person has been stone walled to get information from the company. Then goes online and claims to be a victim of not being able to get Chris’s attention when he has shown no measure of objectivity and still uses inflammatory statements to try to harass them to get more information. In an effort to do what exactly? Twist facts to suit your opinion, when it should only be facts to shape your opinion. I don’t see how people can give this man the time of day when he’s obviously a very egotistic and depraved man.

    Now I’ve read his stuff before but I can’t get through this dribble today. Derek is tooting his own horn and acting childish by using his own beliefs, yes beliefs cause many of his claims aren’t fact just opinion or rumor, to say he won or is winning the argument. They have a clinical term for this, it is called a reinforcing delusion and you need help Derek. Seek professional help to one get some sort of moral compass back and two, figure out that acting in this manner is irresponsible. Even if people are willing to listen to you or give you money. It isn’t a fact because you say it is.

    I am under no illusion that there isn’t something wrong with Star Citizen. I strongly believe the company needs to bring back consumer confidence but I blame them for the actions they have done, not what I speculate on. Like, Star Marine is now almost 2 months past initial latest estimate from Chris (per his statement on FPS update Gamer’s Nexus video (this is proof btw Derek)). While I understand game blockers will prevent a release to the masses, we are backers though. We know it will break and we should be afforded the opportunity to help like were told we could do. This and similar issues are problems based on fact because it is based on promises or information Chris or CIG has given. Again, I’m not taking rumor and saying It is fact. Like how much the companies cash on hand is. That is just rumor.

    Lastly, I want to see Star Citizen get released. I’m not going to back any further but I do want to see it get released. If it soars or plummets to the ground is on Chris and company. Therefore to write them off before they’ve even had that opportunity, when Derek has made some pretty bad games mind you and makes many claims based on rumor, is at best idiotic and at worst delusional.

  274. The thing is ED has the TECH BASE, adding content is only a matter of time. SC is adding content without its technical base, they are building a scraper from top down. People need to stop use ED lack content to say that SC is a better game, why some people cant see that SC is still a sound good on paper project, SC make a bigger promise therefor SC is a better game, come on.

  275. ROFL, do you think CR would have had that reaction if Derek was wrong? Take your time, think it through.

  276. Determining their burn rate is simple math. Employee count x average industry salary per specialization over time. Any competent industry leader can give you a burn rate +/- 5% in about 20 seconds. Nothing speculative about it. If he has that many employees that is what the burn rate is at the low end.

  277. Thorne:

    “What I do know is that something in the back of my mind is telling me that the fate of Star Citizen has been sealed the moment Mr. Chris Roberts publicly released that statement on the Star Citizen website”

    I think that was just the nail on the coffin. IMO what sealed the fate of the project was when back in July when they decided to make things personal and declare all out war on “Derek Smart” in order to deflect attention away from the project’s troubles. Of course, three months later, that move backfired in spectacular fashion because now people are thinking, looking, asking questions etc. And if it wasn’t for my blogs, all the articles from July, all the way to The Escapist one which decided to investigate further, wouldn’t have been possible. As some have said, people were already asking these questions, but they had no voice; so it was mostly drowned out.

    The reaction to the Escapist article just brought to surface the mindset of these people. But even so, all it takes is one look at the original letter that Ortwin sent in response to my query, and it should have been obvious to everyone the type of people we were dealing with. Ortwin sent a response which, unbecoming of an attorney, was riddled with personal attacks, while completely ignoring or not responding to the queries in the letter. Then Chris’s diatribe hit; followed by Ortwin’s ludicrous demand letter. Of course Ortwin had already started accusing me of criminal conduct as per stalking.

    They will do anything to avoid questions being asked about this project or about the money.

    “I know you have said that this will likely be the last blog for a while Mr. Smart as you may pursue legal action against Cloud Imperium Games – something I completely understand because the disclosure of something in a legal matter can lead to issues in court or, before that, in arbitration if you chose that route.

    It won’t be my final Star Citizen blog. I will write other blogs depending on what is going on. The issue is that with impending legal action, I may not be able to divulge as much as I have in the past. In fact, that’s why most of the material that was in this latest blog, had to be removed because legal felt they were best left out so as not to reveal more about what info we have.

    ps: please get in touch with me when you can. dsmart at

  278. Hello Mr.Smart ,internet, SC community ( as i know lot of us come around) and everyone.
    I apologise for my bad english. non-born english speaking person here as you would guess.
    This is going to be a long one.

    I don’t know Mr.Smart products, and I’m guilty of using your notoriety and your blog place to speak out loud what i would have been able to on SC forums. I also apologise for that.

    I’m a backer, and have pldeged for a bit more than 100$.
    I had also my ‘I believe’ time wich, and due to my pessimistic and logistic mind, didnt last long.
    And I’m very angry.

    i’ve been following this project from the begining but had only decided backing end of 2014.
    2014 pax australia decided me about it. The marketing worked. They got me in.
    Ironically I haven’t played any of Mr.Roberts products, and what got me in was the fact we finally had a game product that was so distinctive and uncomon in years.

    First : I want to be clear about one point : I had been angry long before Mr.Smart investigations and before all this story came up to light. I’m just speaking now cause thanks to Mr. Smart , we can now freely do without beeing locked off.
    And I’ll show you A+B you don’t need Mr.Smart and Employees disclosure talks to understand SC is’nt going anywhere.

    Second point, adressed to SC community :
    you guys are behaving just as any sectish people would do when it comes about bad criticisms on SC. Total lack of objectivity, and for the most, your arguments and proofs are irrelevant; Dodging anwsers as well.
    I’ve been there I know how you feel. I know how I felt when i saw the first hints and concerns about how legit SC was, and that was early 2014 on SC forums. That was when people asking the true questions about it were anwsered politely that ‘rome doesnt build in one day ‘, ‘ you’re not buying ships you are pledging’ ( wich is true , depending of the point of view finally).
    Now, that kind of trhead goes flaming so quick that it gets locked 5 minutes after.
    People legitimatly asking , in good faith, for more specifics about SC, see themeselve raged over by countless fanatics dudes that think they found the Light.

    What worries even more : the Cult. Chris Roberts is’nt god; He’s just a man who have a vison… and so.?? who doesnt have a vision ? You guys dont have dreams? ok whatever. from this point I don’t understand how one can be fooled and keep hoping, have faith , or whatever relevant to religion vocabulary when its about actual facts, that can be verified, that is real, that is buisness plan that is something you dont put ‘faith’ in.
    Do you have faith in your car reseller? come on.

    Please be objective, what happened in SC ? release of a bugged Arena Comander a year ago, that is still in same state.
    I begun then to worry about, but putting that on the fact they were hiding a lot so they didnt want to spoil. That was a personal opinion. And i stupdily hanged to that.
    PaxAustralia nov 2014 : We saw the FPS module that was about to come April or so. Seriously have you guys found out some revolutionary gameplay to it? i didnt see anything that could tell me if it was to be good or not. It was only about showing FX. Guys speaking in mic etc. Absolutely nothing that would be significant compared to a battlefiled or COD : military shooting each others… whooohooo….
    We are ONE year later and nothing. And that was just a poor demo on ONE map. Btw AC got 2 maps only. TWO maps. woooohooooooooooo.
    The guys at Unreal Tournament ( yes the new one ) did a prealpha game in that time range that is something you can really play with and have fun. Btw this is one of a hell of a FPS.
    This is a TRUE FPS . . It’s free, you can pledge or not, and its FUN. and moreover its crowd-developed as well ( i will speak bout that at the end). Oh and it got more than 2 maps btw…

    Release of ‘social module’ ??? whoooohooo you guys have short memories, but we saw EVERYTHING of what we can ‘play’ now, in 2014 on screenshots they shew us. And i suspect the version we have now is just a filler they did develop in intern long time ago, but had no choice but to realease to us when it came to the FPS fiasco.
    Are you guys happy with that tiny social module map where you can do nothing but talk in a 10 year aged chat system? ‘omg wow this cutlass just flying over me, standing on the bridge !!!!’ WHOOOOOOHHHOOOOO !!!!!!
    Some people seem to have lived in caves for so long it’s just not fun anymore.
    Sorry for SC community but yea, i’m beeing aggressive since you are too with people that don’t match your mind.

    Nevertheless I was already angry since april, when FPS never shown up; When Mr. Roberts, as well as Mr;Lesnick kept stating FPS modules and a whole bunch of fancy stuff ‘are coming’ ‘ not a matter of years or months but weeks’ . Now That was in July.
    Now we are in October.
    Now I invite the sceptical tocheck bout prealpha games or anticipated access on Steam for example.
    Don’t you find it quite fun, most of those titles are proposing somewhat a content to be played?
    ( who talked bout EliteDangerous ? ).

    Last thing : Why the hell Mr.Roberts had to write this insanly long letter ?
    Wouldn’t it have been more usefull to use those 8 hours he spent writing it, to something more talkative ?
    Such as , let me think : Oh maybe sending some screenshots, builds, test versions of SC to the escapist and then for them to ensure? Isn’t how things are done usually when you have nothing to hide?
    They can keep it closed to public view who cares; at least we would have media saying ‘Don’t worrie, we saw SC advancement, it’s going fine’.
    Not at all what we got so far.

    No, cause simply all this doesn’t seem to exist . All that seem to be existing is the tech to build technical demos of a dream game. That is.

    Now you add Mr.Smart and The Escapist investigations on about and I think one can have a clear vision of what is going on.
    I’m a late backer, I’ll ask for a refund even if I know my money is lost to some CEO that doesn’t act as a CEO. I’m angry bout myself for beeing fooled. I’m angry bout CR bout taking a oath he can’t stand for. Crowd-funding system is recent and needs more juridical and legale safeties.
    I still think it’s one of the many future on how games can be made. Adding to the crowd-development such as for UnrealTournament.
    Here a bit of hope : how about we crowd fund and dev the next space sim game?

    Thanks for taking the time reading me.

  279. By the time the majority subscriped the agreement had changed. You do have the ability to get a refund if you do not agree to the new terms, if you do however agree you can just keep it as it is. I find this to be an excellent way. Your product can’t be delivered, you get your money back and those are no longer a backer.

  280. Mr. Smart,

    Please excuse the length of my comment but I wrote it in Word and realized I needed to have parts of it vetted before submitting it to your site.

    I have obviously been away for sometime attending to my own affairs as I naturally do; gaming is a hobby to me that I do in a free time when I rarely have the time. However, clearly things have escalated in my recent absence to a point that I simply could not ignore – a line as it were that shoots up so many “red flags” that it’s clear that Star Citizen is a house of cards just waiting to fall.

    I do not normally dabble into calling someone an “idiot” although I might think it but my position does not typically afford me such luxuries when one must be seen presentable to many and outlandishly calling someone as such does not fall into something I normally do. However, the more and more I read from Mr. Ortwin Freyermuth the more and more I continue to question his intellectual knowledge as it is clear he is way out of his depth. Even for a lawyer in the entertainment industry, Mr. Ortwin Freyermuth displays a lack of just general legal knowledge and it becomes apparent in every letter he has wrote. It reminds me of a Canadian Constitutional lawyer I once had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with who tried to represent a personal friend of his from the United Kingdom. It was embarrassing to the point that I just felt bad so we sent them a long their merrily way.

    I’ve read through the article that was posted to “the Escapist,” the response from CIG, the cease and desist order I believe Mr. Ortwin Freyermuth sent to you, and the response from the publisher of “the Escapist” which I am glad to see is sticking by their journalist. Every house of card crumbles and I believe the inevitable series of events that Chris Roberts himself has set into motion will no doubt be the point for which there is no return.

    This does sadden me because the 2.0 vision of Star Citizen is pretty much the dream game for what I would say is likely everyone who’s ever played a Science Fiction based MMO – such as for example: EVE Online. However, I can’t speak for everyone. To be honest, I had quite a bit of enjoyment out of playing Arena Commander during their “Public Test Universe” – even with the instability resulting from the backend infrastructure on Google Cloud Engine which is a tirade I will not get into again but I really have spent hours playing Arena Commander and they were fun.

    Nevertheless, Arena Commander does not constitute a game and it is not what I have paid for. I paid for the entire deal: Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe. The unfortunate reality is however, by the actions demonstrated in the recent days it is unlikely that Star Citizen will ever truly see the light of day and all that backer money whether it was from Kickstarter and vision 1.0 or RSI and vision 2.0 has gone to waste.

    I have teetered on the edge for quite some time now whether or not to obtain a refund. I already made contact with the banking institution of choice for which I purchased all Star Citizen content from and even if Cloud Imperium Games tried to deny me a refund they would “yank the funds right back” which of course is a one-way deal. And if Cloud Imperium Games tried to pursue any action I would have the backing of a multitude of lawyers I have in my own personal service, the financial institution, and enough people quite literally on speed dial including the Attorney General for the Commonwealth of Virginia and the Attorney General for the State of California.

    However, call it naivety or hope in the face of impossible odds – the latter I learned through life experience at a much younger age but something still keeps me from just getting my money back. In fact, I was browsing their site thinking about upgrading to the Endeavour. Then I read how they act, how they use our money, and the general controversy surrounding this and it truly disturbs me to the point I feel I should get a refund before the inevitable happens.

    As you are aware of by now Mr. Smart through the several various posts I made on your blog, I run a business, or rather an organization as the federal government couldn’t entirely classify us and to me video game development is foreign. I can complete complex mathematical formulas, you want an intercept solution to launch a rocket into orbit – I can do, come up with design ideas for experimental technology like (removed by Legal); understand modern computing to the point that I could build something to run on a multitude of current platforms but when I look at game development I don’t know where to begin.

    I presume it’s you start with a basic concept like with everything and go from there. One thing I have learned from my love of the arts and the love of the sciences is that they both share one main commonality: the work is never done and if you leave either unsupervised you will find the work never finished.

    I asked a colleague of mine whose the head of our (removed by Legal) to ask the (removed by Legal) Project team that in a hypothetical scenario where Star Citizen was coded to respond to our (removed by Legal) processor architecture, could it run? The answer she got from the team is that “yes, in a perfect world” but the type of technology we are talking about is something you won’t hear about until around 2020. Of course, the “perfect world” scenario assumed that everything from net coding to obviously the base code was rewritten for a (removed by Legal) type of processor for an operating system intended to operate (removed by Legal).

    On silicon based technology, under the codes and assets that Star Citizen currently uses, it would require a remarkably significant investment just for the backend alone and most of the code is just not “there” to drive something like this. It was compared to “fitting a square peg into a round hole” – you an do it but it will have a bad result. It was also compared to the original iPhone demo where most of iOS was still actually not functioning and Safari could cause a kernel panic.

    I sincerely believe you are bringing something to light that needs to be brought to light: Star Citizen under its current management cannot happen and its scope on the foundation that they are using would be a money drain on a business so severe that the business would likely sink in a few months.

    The more I read your articles and now the responses from CIG to both you Mr. Smart and to the publisher of “the Escapist” the more I feel like I have been conned out of money to unjustly enrich another party – in this case Mr. Chris Roberts and Mrs. Sandi Roberts nee Gardner.

    I have a feeling the next few months will define not only the Star Citizen or even the gaming industry but how people see crowdfunding. I know they won’t, not until someone subpoenas it, but Cloud Imperium Games’ financials need to be released and we need to see where $90 million went. We need to see where everything truly went wrong.

    Of course, I can’t say I have made a truly final determination of the money I put into Cloud Imperium Games and what I will do with it. They are throwing rocks at people who have stood up to say something suspicious is going on which usually means something actually is but I am also genuinely curious as to what game you had $200 million for that I believe they claim was never released? Perhaps it was just another attempt to attack your credibility or perhaps it was covered in a blog which I don’t remember.

    What I do know is that something in the back of my mind is telling me that the fate of Star Citizen has been sealed the moment Mr. Chris Roberts publicly released that statement on the Star Citizen website. Given the amount of effort they are going through to remove threads that attempt to discuss this topic the only place I know of where I can have a reasonable conversation and obtain information from is your blog and that is also disturbing because I believe that good or bad – a discussion needs to be had and they are attempting to inhibit it. If the accusations were baseless I would understand but the accusations aren’t baseless and not only that but every action they undertake now is one that somebody who has been “caught” does. It’s predictable.

    I know you have said that this will likely be the last blog for a while Mr. Smart as you may pursue legal action against Cloud Imperium Games – something I completely understand because the disclosure of something in a legal matter can lead to issues in court or, before that, in arbitration if you chose that route.

    However, your blogs do provide an outlet for those of us who are becoming more and more alarmingly concerned with Star Citizen and do not have the connections to the gaming industry. Frankly, aside from three people on the Xbox LIVE team, you are the only game developer I have ever truly interacted with in some way. Naturally however, since this is a blog, I use an email address I use for gaming rather than my professional address as I do not delve into the industry of gaming. So I do hope that you continue your blogs; even if they aren’t as detailed as the mystery of Cloud Imperium Games comes to light.

  281. Agreed, Why not use the press that you have generated, and the obvious strengths you have in arguing to do some thing THAT ACTUALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

    You literally could change the world, if you focused on something that matters, instead of a stupid video game. I mean really Derek, you obviously have strengths in bringing attention to things, and debating. PLEASE use these strengths to do something that will make a difference. Star citizen is just a game.

    In 10 years, whether someone played the game or not, it will no longer exist. However, rules that are put in place for internet censorship, or sexism in gaming, or any number of REAL LIFE issues will continue to effect BILLIONS of people.

    Why not do what you do for them, instead of the few rich people that decided to throw their moeny at a pie in the sky video game.

    You really could do something great, if only you could see it.

  282. I agree that CIG has not delivered what was promised, and just kept upping the scope. I want this project to succeed more than a I want a refund, but what I see coming is a rushed and buggy SQ42 that will just cover CIG legally and leave us unsatisfied. That is a real bummer as I have been waiting for a good space sim since Freespace 2. I really hope CIG can finish this, but if there was nothing to hide they would have just ignored Derek, or came forward with the requested data.

  283. Thanks for keeping on this, Derek. I thought that id Software was the worst run company I had seen in recent memory (Rage-8 years) but this takes the cake.

  284. Wow. I’ve been making AAA games for more than two decades. It’s painfully obvious to everyone who’s in the business that it’s an absolute trainwreck. And I am an Admiral’s package backer plus an additional ship.

    That money is lost.

    If you believe that magically you will see this game released you are honestly fooling yourself.

    Derek is doing a public service pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes.

  285. Hi Nash. You can do what I did and pull out quotes from Roberts where you backed for the KickStarter version 1 game but not post stretch goal version 2 game. I was able to recover $930. Here’s how I did it.

  286. It’s a broad statement of what the “end game” is when a crowdfunded company or project reach expiration either due to the project’s creator no longer caring or running out of money. My comment wasn’t a direct statement of CIG’s status.

  287. I think I can worded it differently, “you should have the right to this and that.” Sorry for the misunderstanding.

  288. I’m not contesting those things, just honestly it really annoys the heck out of me when people put words into my mouth. I simply posted the article to point out a misuse of that word. And if I misinterpreted that, I apologize.

    And you can look at pretty much all of my comments here, I’ve never actually fought Derek on what he’s doing in general. Just trying to sort through specifics.

  289. Ben I used invested not as investor stock market terms. But as a person who put money down on what was sold as the most open development pf a aaa game. And I put IF this fails, it has finished crowdfunding for me,and probably others, this will have a big impact on other devs. If you think kickstarter projects can take without delivery or accountability, well It will kill crowdfunding and ultimately it is an issue for courts. My original point looking like I’ve been burned twice and I wont be fooled again. That has real economic impacts which is why Smart is posting.

  290. What no discounted bundle for the button, UI and handle?!?!?! Well I guess I’ll ONLY by 3 of each then. 😛

    Oh that sweet, sweet button!!!

  291. I have nothing against Sandi, but I do find her on camera presence to be lacking big time. She is pretty modelling is her strong suit, but NOT acting.

    I also can’t believe they put those ATV and community internet “shows” on IMDB, but that’s a whole other discussion.

    I also wonder why Wingman left…people loved wingman, why they moved that show after just finishing a new studio for them to California made no sense….spot light?


  292. I really don’t think that you could say that CIG has stopped communicating with their backers….. just saying…..

  293. Sandy is the biggest con in front of us. i commented ONCE on a facebook post of around the verse about how dry and unfit for the job sandy is doing and how/why as VP of marketing is she marketing herself in front of the camera she needs to be behind the scenes and managing things. that was answered with a comment blocking. i can no longer comment on star citizen facebook posts. and now for fear of any further retaliation i do not comment on anything.

  294. “so no you don’t actual have any rights of an Investor.”

    I know reading can be difficult but please see above. I never said backers don’t have ANY rights or transparency was a lie….

    Way to jump about a mile over the point I was attempting to make.

  295. As a plain consumer, you don’t have the right to ask to see any companies accounting. I would really love to see this backed up by a reference, not just your say so, because I’m pretty sure it’s completely incorrect.

    I keep bringing this up because as an investor, not only can you ask for access to the books of the company that you are invested in but they are required by law to send you reports about the financials of said company.

    And I’ve never once said that the authorities, if there in an active investigation, shouldn’t have access to the accounting. But the backers have no legal reason to see all of the accounting. And the continued incorrect term of investor makes people believe that they have much more legal standing than they do. Not saying one way or the other about if its right, but that’s where we currently stand.

    So please instead of just spouting out your opinion show me some links that actually state that backers should have any access to the full books of a kickstarter company, especially one that’s still currently in business and not a failed / bankrupt venture.

    And please if I’m wrong about this then please prove it, with actual legal written word, not just your interpretation of something. And no the FTC link that Derek has posted numerous times doesn’t say a dang thing about backers having access to accounting information of any sort.

  296. Von: Yeah, if it’s one thing I know how to do, it’s project management and keeping the studio lean and mean. On the financial side, all the money is in a bag, tied to a stone that’s buried out in the Bermuda Triangle and only I know the GPS co-ords 🙂

  297. And that is why crowd funding is going strait in the toilet if this fails, thanks for proving my point!
    You ahave said backers have zero rights and that transparency was a lie.

  298. kxmode: it depends on if the FBI get involved or not. If they do, and there’s fraud; well someone’s going to jail. And that would be the conclusion. Other than that, no, I don’t believe they will ever work again in either movie or video games. Remember that Ascendant Pictures folded eventually; and it hadn’t made any movies long before that.

  299. Hey I’ve definitely been blamed for worse so can’t complain 🙂

    Wish I could take you up on the free steam download but my piddly laptop unfortunately won’t run it. I had an original copy of UC tried to run it and the poor laptop almost died. Just keep doing what your doing cause as they say Haters gonna Hate. Just remember there’s those of us still following even after 20 years.

  300. Hey Derek, have you heard of TPP? Slightly more pressing issue than a video game man not making his video game as good as you want it.

  301. Nash: Yes the are. If you are an original backer – especially if you were on KS – then they will refund you. Just be persistent. They have started doing refunds since I started this furor back in July during which I showed people what rights they had, how to complain to the FTC etc.

  302. David: Thanks David. You guys are primarily responsible for my being around. So yeah, this is all your fault. 🙂

    btw, I released a freeware version of Universal Combat CE v2.0 (the successor to Battlecruiser 3000AD) on Steam earlier this year and I am currently doing a major graphics upgrade via DLC. Check it out.

  303. Drama goes in the drama thread. DS even calls it out as drama “A lot of pissed off backers.” You need to find some better winged monkeys D.

  304. You are absolutely correct. When Roberts had real accountants keeping him on a leash he did good work. More importantly, he actually worked. The funny thing is, my ideal game studio right now would probably include both Roberts and Smart. Roberts to do his “vision” thing & work on the game, and Smart holding the financial leash & telling him to stay focused, keep it realistic and get back to work. Too bad that will never happen.

  305. Ugh! You probably did not understand my point. You are just detailing how construction contracts work in US, reviews set by contract along the project, etc. and failing to see that the nature of the deal is the same… and that was the point that I raised. You are buying something that is not build yet, paying for that and who you paid for that will have to deliver.
    Obviously different business/contracts will have specifics, but the basics, the nature of the deal is the same. And that’s why crowdfunding with rewards always will be recharacterized as a purchase, a sale, not a donation.
    You made a pointless comment. But thanks to let us know that you are architect. Maybe someone can hire you for something

  306. “IF, and its a big if, RR is making best effort to deliver your order but cannot due to whatever circumstances that are ‘reasonable-ish’ are they liable?”

    Yes. The company have the responsibility of not making offers which they can’t accomplish and set the estimates preventing these unforeseen events that could be out of their control. It’s their responsibility.

    “Honest mistakes” make you liable when you do business with consumers.
    Earthquakes that kills your employees don’t. Know what I mean?

  307. “So you have to spend about 240 pounds for the complete game. And not just high rollers, but EVERYONE who wants to play ED with all the content.
    And you don’t mind that?”

    What you claim as 4-5 add on are huge additions of gameplay that by itself, not all, but some, can be classified as an entire new game by itself. You pay more for an entire season of expansions, not little stuff. They don’t sell anything in-game to give advantage to people, to transform/ruin the game in a pay-to-win party. It’s a game that will be kept for years, possibly a decade, and for that, breaking that along months/years, having to pay nothing else, is cheap actually.

    Meanwhile, Star Citizen sell overpriced ships and block the content of the game of people, disguising the situation as “because its under development” which makes absolutely no sense at all, for a game fully funded. Only one ship of Star Citizen to give you the opportunity to give it a try, can cost 10 times of what you will spend in the entire life cycle of 10 years of Elite Dangerous. And the excuse of “you can get everything for free on release” is just a lame excuse, because that should have been happening since 10 months ago, and its very far to happen. So you will have your in-game experience hampered due that. And do’nt come with REC. Because its bullshit. That was not what was promised and its more like a tool – trial time – to make the user thirsty to spend money in the asset, than actually a good faith to give value in entertainment to the players, specially due the fact that they are accepting (some) to wait for so much longer for the release time.

    Besides, in case of the not probable success of Star Citizen to happen, they actually have the intention to sell expensive new mission disks to their single-player campaigns. Definitely that would mean a lot more money in the medium/long term, for less value of hours of gameplay than all the features that ED will be doing. While CIG struggle to advance with their PU features, due their constraints of abuse in high fidelity, shinny stuff, etc.

    But obviously, you know, this scenario of SC never will happen because they are gonna flop. In the end they will have spent years “in development”, just to release a game that never will live to the hype and will have to be shutdown in 1 or 2 years after release. So, people barely will have that “time” to get “things for free during the gameplay”. Obviously, I am been seriously optimist now. Because the chances that they ever achieve their PU dreams are ridiculously small.

  308. You are not an investor in the sense of getting money return, but you are a consumer buying a project to deliver some goods or to be provided some services. You are making a purchase that must to be delivered as promised.
    CIG has been treating this wrongly. Thinking that the money that they received is a pure donation. And that is what leading them to broke many consumer laws.
    Besides, the FTC which oversees such matters already came to public to say that the money pledged must to be spend to deliver the project, not for any other objective. They will consider that a fraud, otherwise.
    It means that there is accountability implied, after all, as FTC says, the money MUST to be spend in the project and the runner of the campaign, only can prove that with accountability, if doubts raise. Which could be asked by any consumer, any time. And if the company refuses to give, any consumer will end getting this in a court of law. So, in practice, the refusal of the company is illegal, and such refusal will be considered bad faith, leading to fines to the company that did not solve the issue and leaded that to the expenses of time and money, and government resources of a lawsuit.
    Obviously, consumers only will pursuit such accountability if the project is showing signs of failure, which is exactly what has been happening with Star Citizen.
    While there is not a specific law which covers crowdfunding with rewards, that’s how the legal authorities are fitting it into the consumer/marketing/advertising laws.
    You keep trying to give this argument of “you’re not an investor that will get money in the end, so, that means that you are not entitled to accountability”. You should stop for a minute and simply understand that one has nothing to do with another. The fact that you are not getting money, does not automatically made you not having the right to see the books. It has nothing to do, “because your return is money, you can read the books, otherwise, not”. Again, they are still responsible to spend the money only in the project. So how the hell the consumer will make sure of that without looking into the books, in case he is in doubt? See? You are been illogical. And I am repeating that for the 10th time probably in this missive, to see if you finally understand.
    FTC already came out and clarified that through their statements and the precedences of lawsuits already. So, it’s really interesting to see you repeating your campaign of disinformation. It makes no sense, unless if you are trying to dumb-down the consumers so they think that have no right to anything and CIG would be “good” of showing their books, which obviously, is bullshit.

  309. “will get away with it”. I would imagine their reputations will be completely destroyed. They would never be able to work in the video game industry and I highly doubt Hollywood would ever want to deal with them. Does this sound like a fair conclusion?

  310. Passion, dreams, all this bullshit that you are claiming that ‘most of the backers’ have over a video-game (I doubt that most of the backers have this profile) is not an excuse to be idiots enough to confuse a video-game with people, to the point that assume that its ok to attack an individual when he criticizes a video-game.
    There is no passion or love that justifies such attitude.
    They are just nuts.

  311. One thing is to criticize/analysis a business venture. Other is to threat people’s life because dislike the criticism/analysis of the venture. You can’t seriously compare that “Derek is doing the same”.
    While for you video-games can be an entertainment, for many its a business. A profession. A career. An industry. Of Billions of dollars.
    So, it’s interesting that you think that discuss an industry of billions of dollars is “ridiculous”, or even compare that, consumer issues, etc., with “the same” as threatening people’s life.

  312. “Long story short, I have a simple question: Now that your voice is heard, why keep vocally denouncing this project?”

    Why you are bothered with that? Are you willing that other people make an investiment only looking for dreams and ignoring some facts that sound negative? You know what. The thing is, that if people really inform themselves regarding this project, beyond hearing the CIG advertising, they won’t pledge. So, that’s why you think should just shut up and let this go.

    Sorry. We won’t. Enough deception was made. Ask for CR to stop to sell expensive dreams, to focus to deliver the game that he promised to make with the money that he told that would sustain it for years beyond the day one, and then we stop. Because then, we will see “good faith” instead a guy willing to get people’s money regardless if they will be satisfied or not in the end.

  313. “You claim the game will fail; I have read all your arguments. But why do you think we backers would want to get out if we backed with our spending money, money that we are completely ok to part with.”

    Why you think that your reason to pledge for this project, meaning that you consider your money lost, is the same reason that others pledged?

    If what you said made any sense, CIG wouldn’t need to make a contract.

  314. Lol what? Did I saw something wrong? I am a backer, I want to get to the bottom of this barrel to see where my money is going and if j should ask for refund. I merely ask these questions to determine if you are telling the truth for truth’s sake or for personal reasons as the internet claims.

  315. That is correct but it doesn’t say anything about backer’s “rights” and I’m tired of people screaming to the trees, “I have rights, I’m an INVESTOR!!!” That’s patently false and should be corrected. And yes they need to deliver, it says nothing about financial accountability to your backers or anyone, save the FTC themselves and that’s only if there’s worry about you running away with the money.

    But we’ve been through this dance a couple times, Mr. Smart. I’m just tired of people using a very incorrect term that they believe allows them something which legally they don’t have.

  316. Wait – CIG is issuing refunds now? I asked for one months ago and was told they’d only refund orders placed within 14 days. I’m an original backer and have been dissatisfied with Star Citizen for at least a year.

  317. Just because a majority want something does not negate an agreement or contract.The Federal Trade Commission (which has jurisdiction over trade and business matters here in the U.S.) has said that crowdfunded projects have an obligation to deliver on the promises they made.

    Also here is the last line for the Contract between Creators and Backers on Kickstarter-

    “If [the creator is] unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.”

  318. All I know is I had high hopes for the game granted I have not touched a Robert’s game since WC III. I have played just about every Derek Smart game since the original 3000ad first came out. My first thought was holy shit this is the type of game I have dreamed about. I have followed Derek Since I was old enough to use a computer I am 30 now kind of puts things in perspective that its been almost 20 years since I first laid hands on a BC game. There have been mis-steps over the years but he has always owned it. The bonus for me was there is someone in my neck of the woods developing a PC game. Originally from Plantation FL. Always wanted to see behind the scenes cause Like I said this was a dream game for me especially with the later games coming out I could fight and space and then if I wanted to launch my self to a planet and run around I could. People lambasted the interface over the years but the game is a SIMULATION which denotes semi real world complexities you cant just point and click and shoot a weapon and expect it to work there are things going on in the background that have to play out. Hoping for a response from the man himself. Truly a life long fan of 3000ad and how it continues to push the envelope. Innovation has to start somewhere and its always that indie visionary does not have to be just in gaming either.

    PS. Derek you have given me and others like me a truly fun experience we wish you the best would be awesome to come tour the office. Still here in Florida living in Sunny Fort Myers.

  319. Ben: How is it you’re still going on about this? Backer or investor, it’s irrelevant. The FTC – which trumps all this bullshit – has made it clear that if you take money via crowd-funding, you have an obligation to deliver it.

  320. VorpalChicken: It’s in one of my comments. They will file for bankruptcy most likely. Then all assets go to the court which then appoints a trustee to auction off everything. The founders (Chris, Sandra, Ortwin) will get away with it, unless they are sued or if the Feds uncover any fraudulent conduct warranting further action.

  321. I think it was a stupid PR move rather than actual response. It doesn’t seem like he is taking it serious enough.

  322. Studio’s were in control of that money, for a NEW HOPE they were pretty skeptical how it was going to turn out. Sometimes when money is tight you find really brilliant creative ways to do things…look how many resources Lucas had for EP 1-3, look how poorly they turned out.

    Money doesn’t mean you get the biggest bang for your buck, especially if you have a guy behind the wheel who has a history of financial blunders. He was lucky enough to profit from the sales of his companies and yes his ego took it up the butt but he banked on it.

    CR might be a “visionary” but he lacks the expertise in executing that vision in a way that’s fiscally responsible. He clearly can’t manage the scope of the project and I don’t think he’s had enough modern day game making experience for that either. Making films and video games are two VERY different things.

    I appreciate what the company is trying to do (I’m a backer after all) but it has lost it’s way and have promised more than they can deliver. They not only have to deliver, but deliver in a way that’s fun and engaging so that we want to play it. Otherwise you get another AC where nobody bothers to play it because it clearly hasn’t been thought through from a gameplay perspective (even as a test bed it’s bad).

    It’s pretty clear with all the high profile delays and people leaving the company (Alex M didn’t last very long did he – people like that don’t just leave a project because they get a better offer…it’s because he saw something that wasn’t right and wanted out). Wingman leaving was also quite telling, Rob Irving as well…both guys with experience in the genre and working with CR.

    Note: these are just my observations having backed in Nov 2012. I’ve also followed all the sources and leaks outside the church of Roberts (that leaked letter was FAR more scathing than the Escapist article).

  323. You didn’t invest. Crowdfunding is NOT an investment…… no you don’t actual have any rights of an Investor.

    Taken from the Interstellar Breach blog, posted by Derek Smart himself…….


    Investor is another word people should avoid using when talking about Kickstarter campaigns. Backers are not investors because there is no assumption of risk and no chance of a monetary yield.

    Back in 2012, when Palmer Luckey raised $2.4 million through Kickstarter to fund his Oculus VR headset, the backers who invested in his campaign didn’t see a nickel of the $2 billion he later received when Facebook purchased his company. Instead, those 9,522 early investors received the benefit of their contractual bargain: posters, T-shirts, and early headset prototypes.

    Kickstarter agrees that there is no investment opportunity in a project:

    “We’re all in favor of charity and investment, but they’re not permitted on Kickstarter.” [12]
    So, lest you think otherwise, no one is investing in a Kickstarter campaign by contributing money. [13] [14]

  324. “*Since* their money came from their consumer “you”, you have the right to demand everything a investor would demand from them.” Actually, legally, no you don’t. Not at all. There is absolutely no legal basis or precedent that backs up this statement in any way shape or form.

    Backers are not investors.

    Recommended reading taken directly from the Interstellar Breach blog but here’s the pertinent part:


    Investor is another word people should avoid using when talking about Kickstarter campaigns. Backers are not investors because there is no assumption of risk and no chance of a monetary yield.

    Back in 2012, when Palmer Luckey raised $2.4 million through Kickstarter to fund his Oculus VR headset, the backers who invested in his campaign didn’t see a nickel of the $2 billion he later received when Facebook purchased his company. Instead, those 9,522 early investors received the benefit of their contractual bargain: posters, T-shirts, and early headset prototypes.

    Kickstarter agrees that there is no investment opportunity in a project:

    “We’re all in favor of charity and investment, but they’re not permitted on Kickstarter.” [12]
    So, lest you think otherwise, no one is investing in a Kickstarter campaign by contributing money. [13] [14]

  325. “Considering you live in the US I think it’s actually impressive that nobody every tried to harm you, don’t you?”

    Because US citizens don’t value free speech and the ones that do are the minority right? Excuse me, I’m going to have a good laugh.

  326. “Here in Germany we had already a few cases this year, where people got shot and stabbed over ONE SINGLE sentence on facebook.”
    Just what are you talking about. I live in Germany and there has not been a single case of this… It’s ridiculous to wish someone bodily harm over such an issue.
    So I do wish justice to prevail, which would be an expensive law suit against Derek Smart which he looses, (This is what I, trying to be objective, made out of this whole affair.) no one should ever wish another person death or bodily harm…
    This sat aside, I still firmly believe in the game I subscriped to mid 2013. I know many original backers speak of feature creep, however exactly thats what I personally signed up for. For a game way out of scope of any other AAA title. I don’t care if its released 2020 and needs more money. I just wish for it to be the game I pledged for.
    This whole law suit of Derek Smart is for those who do wish the original Kickstarter game. However thats not what the majority wants. Since it reached about 10 Mio the Scope increased and the people signing up increased. And those people (way more than 50% of current backers) signed up for the game currently in developemt. Everyone else: I’m sorry but the original Kickstartergame is dead. That’s how it is and that’s what I signed up for.

  327. I’ve not really read this anywhere, but what happens when Star Citizen does fail? If the money as been spent they can’t get refunds out to people, what ends up being the liability of the people involved?

  328. Anon: I am not continuing to “denounce” the project. In fact, I wasn’t even going to do another blog for awhile until something drastic (lawsuit, CIG collapse etc) happens. Even the publication of The Escapist article isn’t why I wrote a new blog. No, I wrote it because 1) CR’s defamatory response to the article 2) Ortwin’s train wreck of a threat 3) Ortwin’s ludicrous C&D which he sent me

  329. Pico: Yeah, he’s a media attorney. So pretty much he makes/creates deals, creates company structures etc. He doesn’t litigate and has no clue that he’s completely out of his depths.

  330. kxmode: not all of them; but a few of those with legacy systems still use FORTRAN. I know this because I have a friend who works at one such outfit. They’ve been porting it for over a decade now. Yeah, seriously.

  331. I’m sorry. “People are wishing harm on another person over a video game. A GODDAMN VIDEO GAME!!”
    Isn’t that exactly what your whole life currently evolves around? A Videogame? You are obsessed with Star Citizen, wether your claims are true or not. Putting so much energy in just trying to proove a point over a videogame, regardless how much attention and money it has gotten, is ridiculous.
    I would like to hear, why you spent so much time on this issue instead of what you are actually always say you are doing: Developing your own games.
    I hope you still approve this comment to know your answer, even so its criticizing.

  332. Dave80: There won’t be “trailer”. I’ve heard that they are only showing some of the cut-scenes. In other words, just another showcase of stuff that’s not coming out soon. Oh, and they’re going to be putting up a new fighter, Vindicator, for sale. The original price was $175, but apparently Sandi asked them to increase the price. So it could end up being higher.

  333. Dan: The criticisms of LoD are just there for them as a deflecting tactic. It is of no consequence. Pretty much the same thing that when you raise an issue, it changes to “Oh look! Over there! Derek Smart”!

  334. When you claim to speak for a million backers that just make you seem silly, maybe you speak for the 0.5% whales that has ruined the game by putting in stupid amounts of money making CIG lose their heads and creating a North Korea regime both when it comes to the vision of grandeur and how to enforce uniformity within it’s ranks.

    I’m a small backer with just 125dollars spent and I was in a corporation with 20-30 likewise people and they have all given up. I have given up on ever seeing a PU, that ship sailed when Eric Peterson and Rob Irving left. All I hope for now is getting a playable version of SQ42 within the year and hoping to get atleast 10 hours of enjoyment out of it.
    I will never ask for a refund as cash spent nearly 3 years ago aren’t that interesting and asking for it back will only take away my last hope of getting a Freelancer/Wingcommander experience ever again.

  335. That’s the thing.
    You only see a game.
    Others see the future of electronic entertainment, memories of their childhood, the value of a community I was able to see for myself when I was in cologne last year, a chance for a real change in PC gaming, opportunities, hopes and dreams.

    This is a highly emotional project for most backers.

    With every blog you touch people on an emotional level, discrediting them for their choice, their values and their expectations.

    It’s free speech and everything. But at least don’t pretend you’re just a messenger.
    The internet is a place where everybody can express his point of view at the price of being judged by everyone else.

    I’ve read a lot of your blogs, tweets and outbreaks. Considering you live in the US I think it’s actually impressive that nobody every tried to harm you, don’t you?

    Here in Germany we had already a few cases this year, where people got shot and stabbed over ONE SINGLE sentence on facebook.

  336. You misunderstood the parallell. The one white whale Ahab is obsessed with is CIG/CR. Making great games (fishing, harpooning) is what Captain Ahab should be doing, but instead he focuses all of his effort to find the one special white whale that took a bite of him.

    I know enough about your games. I tried the various iterations of Battlecruiser 3000 during the late 1990s, early 2000s.

  337. I read Ortwin’s letter. Having been involved in many types of legal proceedings ranging from criminal prosecution, civil, and estate, to landlord/tenant, Ortwin kind of struck me as an idiot. In all my experience I had never seen a attorney write a letter like that. But I have never been involved in corprat law, so I thought maybe that’s how things were done there. Then I read the letter from DS’s attorney. No. Ortwin is just an idiot.

  338. Because Crowdfunding isn’t a publisher or a venture capital that accepts risk and even buffers in capital loss. Crowdfunding is regular people. It’s a pledge of trust. And when they don’t deliver or stop communicating with their backers they’re breaking the law.

  339. I read the Code Hero’s discussion on Kickstarter and it boils my blood that this punk thinks he’ll get away with what appears to be the theft of around $200,000. The bottom line is Alex Peake is committing consumer fraud and needs to be held responsible. The FTC is aware of the growing issue of shysters committing consumer fraud on Crowdfunding platforms.

    Don’t fret! You have a recourse. Contact your…

    State’s AG (
    the FTC ( or call 1-877-382-4357 [thanks Derek])

    Tell everyone in the discussion forum to do the same too. The more noise you make the faster action can be taken by the states or feds or both. You have basic consumer rights Dave! Don’t give up. 🙂

  340. Hi,

    I am reading your post and dissecting your remarks, and trying to glean truths from it.

    Something I noticed when reading your post: You write: “All the while Chris and Sandra kept making defamatory statements about me both in writing and in person.”

    Yet later you write: “Aside from being just a horrible person, as has been reported, Sandra Roberts is ill suited to handle HR.” and ” A largely incompetent and egotistical person [Chris Roberts], yes.” Can you provide concrete proof of either? If not, are you not being hypocritical?

    Furthermore, “Here is what backers of this game don’t know. CitCon is going to be more smoke and mirrors. Just like GAMESCOM and every event before it. They have nothing tangible to show. If they did, all the stuff they have recently shown, would be in backers hands by now and in decent form. ” How do you know this? How is this different than speculation and fear-mongering? You cannot simply claim stuff without proof. Your words will have more weight if laden with proof. Please provide proof and I will listen.

    Furthermore, “White Knights were rejoicing about the take-down of an industry publication that had dared to speak out against their cult.” If they are a cult, you are equally in a cult, the black knights. What makes you so driven?


    A concerned party

  341. I don’t know how some people clam CIG is being transparent in their practice. It is the most secretive black box shady company I ever seen. It is true that industry game development are mostly done in the dark, that is because they have no obligation to anyone outside of their investors. Those who give money to fund their project has the right to demand a scheduled report explain what they did in a month or week, has the right to check up on them anytime anywhere. Mangers had their legs shaking every time investor question their accountability. Can you imagine CIG treat a traditional investor like they did to their crowd backers? You think a bunch of propaganda video and staged mock up should account for transparency? They been playing dodge around the hard questions, which would not be a question IF THEY MADE ANY PROGRESS at all. Sense their money came from their consumer “you”, you have the right to demand everything a investor would demand from them. They should fear you not you fear them. The nature of this kind of “game” (aka crowd supported passion project) dictates that they would aggressively put anything in limelight IF THEY MADE ANY PROGRESS at all. This project is clearly infested with con-jobs that take advantage of fandom gullibility and holes in the law enforcement. They think they can play boss around you with your money, they think they can grab your 90m and have fun in a game dev theme park. They think you are not scary because you don’t have a team of well dressed body guards. Well guess what, they are not going to get away with that, they need to be hit head on to remind them and the opportunist amount their kind, that rules of capitalism still apply even their investor don;t dress in suit, that you the college educated geek can be just as scary. Don’t play the DS game suck card, his game does not interest me, it has nothing to do with the SC accountability. If you go by this logic, consider that many industry veterans worked on this project had their voice censored, their warning ignored, many of them made game better than DS, was their opinion equally invalid? DS’s game may not be good game but it was the kind of game SC aim to manifest. CR have nothing to fear IF THEY MADE ANY PROGRESS at all.

  342. Hi,

    Just looking for a polite conversation and an answer, no aggression. I have backed for several ships in Star Citizen. Like thousand of other backers, I backed with complete knowledge of risks involved. I am not a simpleton or a child; I want the game to happen,

    I have always wanted the game that Star Citizen will be. I backed the money, knowing full well that if the game tanks my money goes with it. It wasn’t with food/rent/survival money, it was from my spending money. Atleast this way I have tried to contribute to a game I want, and tried to make it real. I thought, “Instead of going to the cinemas or the bar this weekend, I will back for a ship.”

    You claim the game will fail; I have read all your arguments. But why do you think we backers would want to get out if we backed with our spending money, money that we are completely ok to part with. Ok sure, you made your points and got the word out there that the game will die. People who panic or want out will get their refunds if they ask for it (like you did). But the people who stay WANT it to happen, they (like me) know that their money can go down the drain. But they still back, because they want this game to happen, this dream to come true.

    If you are telling the truth, and you want the people to know the truth, you have succeeded. Your voice has been heard worldwide and to any concerned persons will take heed and get their refunds if they wish.

    Long story short, I have a simple question: Now that your voice is heard, why keep vocally denouncing this project? Yes you have made your point, but let us foolish backers have our fantasy that this game will be complete, let foolish CIG make their attempt at the game. If they succeed, they will make thousands of people like me happy that we can play our dreams. If they fail, we will lose our money knowing full well we tried, and you will have been right.

    Our money is ours to deal with…why keeps you passionate about criticizing this project which will surely fall on our foolish deaf ears?

    Thanks for your time in reading,


  343. There is definitely the potential for a “Downfall” parody video, here. And I can’t wait to watch it.

  344. Completely Unrelated (but still funny): Through my amazing Google powers I have discovered that the original STAR WARS (Episode 4, a New Hope) cost a whopping $11million to make ($43million in today’s dollars)… which is equal to about 1/2 the cost of a random pile of SC parts.

    Empire Strikes Back cost $18mil ($52mil today) and Return of the Jedi cost $32.5million ($77mil today).

    In other words, you could have many any of these three movies for less than what they’ve blown on… whatever it is they’ve got right now. This is also means that Chris Roberts has less financial sense than George Lucas. Let that sink in for a minute.

    BioShock cost $15million at the time ($28mil today), or less than one-third of a SC parts bucket. That’s Bioshock. THE Bioshock.

    But wait, it gets better! Wing Commander 3, which to Chris’ credit was indeed (IMHO) a great game cost $5mill to make ($8mill today). It also cast Mark Hamill, Malcolm Mcdowell, Rohn Rhys-Davies and a slew of others. WC4, also a pretty darn good game, only cost $10million ($16mil today) and also had most of the same actors. So keep that in mind when you hear Roberts talk about “A-List” actors in SC. Because it’s been done already, heck, it was done by him! And he did it for a fraction of the budget – in fact, he could have made both of these fine games three times over for what has already been spent on SC.

    Which makes one have to ask “What the heck happened, Chris?”

    PS – Gonna go watch Star Wars, now.

  345. It’s called “Shooting the Messenger” and it didn’t play out very well for Ala ad-Din Muhammad II, either.

  346. Mr.Smart does have a competitive idea. A pragmatic one, at that: The original 1.0 SC, as originally promised (aka “vision 1.0”). And he’s often suggested that the people to work on this goal are the people who already have been working on it from the start.

    At this point it would be absurd for him to try to make a new game from scratch to fill the void that SC is going to leave behind. However, it might not be so absurd (are you listening, Derek?) to wait until Roberts gets done crashing & burning and then, once he’s good and flat broke again, buying the rights to the name for a song, hiring the good people that Roberts has fired, and then tasking that team to completing the original “vision 1.0” game & releasing it.

    Such a scenario would the perfect victory: The game actually get completed, Mr.Smart becomes a gaming industry hero and Roberts’ white-minions end up drowning in their own bile. Bonus points for the whistle-blowers not getting their names dragged through the mud by Roberts (instead they get on the credits for the finished game, at long last). Most of all, all the people who said that Mr.Smart was trying to kill SC end up having to eat so… much… crow.

  347. We regret you personal loss of $________ spent on imaginary spaceships. We are also sorry that you are so terrified of embarrassment over this unfortunate decision to fund C.Roberts’ solid gold toilet collection that you feel the need to blame someone other than yourself for said poor financial decision. We are also sorry that you are too so hopelessly brainwashed by C.Roberts that you have somehow come to blame D.Smart for the failure of the Star Citizen project (see also “Shoot the Messenger”) instead of the person who actually wrecked it (i.e. C.Roberts). Most of all we are also sorry that you are too far removed from reality to understand any of this.

  348. Nevermind. The mods removed it. They didn’t even have the decency to tell me they deleted it. Really classy, bunch of folks over there. :-/

  349. Oh! And it’s not just general people. Haven’t you see Roberts calling you a “terrible human being”?
    He promised things, he didn’t accomplish, then consumers want him to be accountable for that, are “terrible human beings”.
    As his is the leader, the idol, what kind of behavior we all should expect of his most excited followers?
    They are all reflex of him. They were “weapons forged” by him, encouraged by him. And I hope that he hold accountable for that, be by your action, or by authorities action.

  350. Derek, keep carrying the torch. Smoke and mirrors only obscures the truth and it will all eventually come to light. The person at the top is responsible for success or failure and pride comes before the fall. This is an old story and it will only end one way. I just hope there is some measure recourse for those who paid it forward and will receive nothing. At best, this series of events feels like Daikatana all over again (Insert Yamamoto joke here), but the downside here hits backers, making it all the worse.

    Some of the comments speak of the death of crowd-funding… To those I point to Wasteland 2. Divinity. Pillars of Eternity… Elite. All of which exceeded expectations and proved the viability of the funding mechanism. Why? The producers knew how to limit scope creep and deliver a distinct product. Don’t blame the mechanism, blame the salesmen.

    If anyone reading this is a backer, go get your refund while you still can before nothing is left. You can always repurchase later, while on sale.

  351. RE: Crowdfunding not. If the guy get the money, make a movie, profit from the movie and then deliver the game with that profit, in time, as more ridiculous that sound, it would be a fraud. Know what I mean?

    Yes. Definitely. Liz wrote about something like that in her report, “Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes”


    “Several sources pointed to one concrete example of potential fund mismanagement, however, and statements from both Cloud Imperium Games and their partner, Turbulent, appear to add some level of credibility to the claim.”

    “CS7 indicated that Cloud Imperium Games Montreal entered into a joint venture partnership with Turbulent to continue to develop and sell the crowdfunding platform that was built for Star Citizen to other companies – and that backer money was being used for this project. HEAP C3MS is described as “the first platform to combine content, community, and commerce within one integrated platform,” and was used for the design of the RSI website.”

    “After Star Citizen’s crowdfunding campaign was entered into the Guinness Book of World Records as the “Most Crowdfunded Project (Overall),” Turbulent released a statement on their website. In this statement Marc Beaudet, CEO of Turbulent, wrote “We thank Cloud Imperium Games for taking a risk with us and for contributing conceptually and commercially to making HEAP C3MS fantastic for content monetization.””


    Considering your example CIG basically hired a company with Backer money to make a crowdfunding platform and then turn around and sell the platform to other companies for a profit, which they would – I assume – eventually deliver the game from the profit. As you say… fraud.

  352. 1. It is not hypocritical to question pushed back delivery dates, I invested in an open development process, I have a right!
    2.Crowdfunding gets special scrutiny because it is looking like both times I’ve tried it I got burned I’M not investing another dime! and neither will many others! Learn to read!!
    3. He is fighting to find out what happened to 90 million!! CR could have solved this by opening up instead he wrote a deflecting ad hominem letter with obvious reaches like doxing and attacks on gamer gate that had Nothing to do with the issue. Poor show, lost total respect for him and his cult.

  353. Well come Citizencon if there isn’t a trailer for S42 and a solid release date then I’ll be concerned

  354. Because simply put, games that suffer extended delays like this rarely come close to meeting the expectations of the gamers, as more and more corners are cut in order to get the game into the hands of those who are waiting for it. With traditional games, where the funds are fronted by an individual (e.g. Derek), a publisher, a credit agency, investors, etc, if the game sucks then the audience are less likely to spend money on the product. Sure, they are disappointed, but not financially disadvantaged, and the private investors absorb the financial loss. In the case of crowdfunded titles, the audience are disappointed AND financially disadvantaged, in part because they (unlike private investors) likely have no financial insurance to cover the risk of the product not meeting its promises, or failing to be delivered altogether. And if the current and projected funding is used to leverage credit (which CIG has undoubtedly done in order to acquire the leases on 5 worldwide studios), then in the event of catastrophic loss, no matter how much a whale may have pumped into the project, recognized financiers (such as financial institutions or private investors) will be first in the queue to get any money back from any forced liquidation of assets that might occur.

    So sorry to burst your bubble, but for someone like Derek, who backs his own game idea with his own money or assumes all the risk by approaching a bank to get a loan to pay for development, it is not hypocritical to criticize what CIG has done. However bad LoD may be (I haven’t played it, but recognize the technical challenges he faces in making it), it is entirely his risk, and it isn’t as though he is compelling spending of huge amounts of backer money on flashy attract trailers, marketing and ethically questionable ship sales (concepts with no release schedule). I should point out that the initial Kickstarter said that the game would do any marketing, as it wouldn’t need to… It would have already been sold to its target audience. Guess that changed when CR realized how much more money he could pull in.

  355. AIA construction contracts in the US are specifically structured with periodic progress reviews which require third party oversight (usually the Architect or bonding company if there is one) to validate progress commensurate with billing. This is usually a two way street, to ensure contractor doesn’t bill ahead without demonstrable progress but also in the event the owner runs out of funds, any progress which has not been paid for yet can be sued for by the contractor. Source: I am an architect. TL:DR you have no idea what you are talking about

  356. Or maybe its because crowdfunding involves peoples money. A publisher funded game is using its own money, not the publics.

  357. Why does Crowdfunding get special scrutiny. You know companies and even DSmart himself have missed timelines. My understanding is he is fighting because he does not think they can make the game, or that the money has run out. The argument about timelines is hypocritical at best in this forum.

  358. Sparky: Indeed. The thing is that they used these intimidation tactics to scare people into silence. I guess if Chris, Sandra and Ortwin had spent some time going through my history instead of my social media feeds, they would have known what a big mistake they were making.

    That aside from the fact that when they made this personal right off the bat, they made it clear that they were going to play dirty. Which is why Ortwin’s first response, riddled with personal attacks, came as no surprise. Amateurs.

    As I’ve said before, when this collapses, as I suspect that it will, the repercussions are going to be far-reaching and unprecedented. In fact, I am going to go as far as to say I’d be surprised if someone wasn’t looking at jail time by the time the dust settles.

  359. sdfs: I approved this myself because I want people to see just how ludicrous this has gotten. Aside from the death (here’s one 1, 2 from this White Knight who happens to be a gamedev teacher) threats I keep getting, the attacks (email, in this blog comment and which never make it past moderation).

    People are wishing harm on another person over a video game. A GODDAMN VIDEO GAME!!

  360. Satoru: Yeah, I made a killing consulting back in the day for FORTRAN, COBOL and….I don’t even want to type this….RPGII, RPGIII

  361. Satoru: Yes. I don’t need to give them an excuse. Good thing that it wasn’t sent to me. It was just shown to me via a cloud service.

  362. Satoru: That and the fact that any engineers or content people that are replaced (if ever), are now new to a project that is four (or three, depending on if you want to pull your hairs out arguing about it) years in the making. Learning curve. Right there.

  363. MKDAWUSS: Yes, SQ42 uses elements from AC (world, flight dynamics, cockpits etc), Star Marine (if you are required to land, walk into a planetside area and talk to NPC etc).

    However, developed stand alone (as they are now) presents problems for the AC, SM and SQ42 teams who have to be in sync at all times.

    So my proposal would be to halt development on those branches, thus focusing on the versions already being used by SQ42, thus never needing to maintain separate branches of those modules and which requires additional resources (teams, money etc).

    Nothing is being scrapped. They’re just put on hold, while a separate team evaluates the best path forward alongside SQ42.

  364. There are many more simple examples that demonstrates that the “pledge” in a crowdfunding with rewards is just a different label of purchase.

    If you buy a project to construct a house, a project of system to manage your company, a website platform for your company, etc. etc.

    All them have the same basic logic. You are buying something that does not exist yet.

    When you “pledge” for a project not funded yet, the obligation to deliver does not exist. But after funded, yes.

    In fact, the crowdfunding has been considered by FTC in a more restrictive way than you buying a contract to build a house, or making a preorder. Meaning, FTC will require from crowdfunded projects, that their leaders spent all the dime in the project, otherwise, will consider it a fraud. While if you gave money to build your house or a preorder, who got that money does not have the obligation to spend THAT money to build the house or to deliver the product. They could spend with whores and use whatever other investiment, loan, to pay the construction. That money not necessarily should be used for that. In other words, The guy can get the money, make a movie, get the profit of the movie and then deliver the house to you, in time and no issue exists. Crowdfunding not. If the guy get the money, make a movie, profit from the movie and then deliver the game with that profit, in time, as more ridiculous that sound, it would be a fraud. Know what I mean?

    In summary, the pledge has more strings attached between the buyer and the company than an usual purchase. That’s basically what will always happen when you try to fit the crowdfunding business in the consumer protection laws. There is no other way to deal with this, except by opening precedents that would create a situation of easy abuse of companies to consumers, ignoring any possibility of legal issues.

    Obviously, as the companies are not acknowledging that, specially CIG, the consumer only will make they do what they actually have to do to respect the consumer rights, in a court of law.

  365. Ahhh, SLAPP suits, ever the tool of the guilty. I’m so happy the Escapist gave CIG the finger. And well done on your part as well,, Derek. It’s always nice when a scumbag trying to bully people with the law get their comeuppance. It’s simply a shame more people weren’t aware of Roberts history of failure and this whole farce never would have happened to begin with. I’d imagine we’ll probably see a few divorces out of this by the time it’s all said and done.

  366. The thing is. While he did something wrong, I am certain that fans probably attacked him in some points while the mods looked to the other side.

  367. The point is that people, in general, assume that the expensive game is the better one. So, that is how they look to this.
    And the lesson learned is related to the fact that people keep giving money to Roberts for a “better” game, while in fact, their game is worst than others that were made with less money, and IF they had focus, probably they would make a better game too, much better than Elite. It does not help you give infinite money for someone that have no idea what the best to do with that money.

  368. it is up to CR to show his work. He is hiding, shifting dates. Promising a lot but delivering little. this will be the second indy game, and crowdfund I have backed, and the second one i have been burned by (Code Hero was the first). Crowdfunding will Never see another dime from me again. That is the damage DS is fighting against.

  369. Ha you should have been selling your services to banks in 1999. They were hiring back COBOL and FORTRAN programmers like they were the second coming of Jesus to fix all their Y2K problems. These guys were definitely fossils and were commanding ungodly consulting fees. That was their lottery I suppose.

  370. they’re consolidating staff. That’s actually fairly disturbing for a few reasons

    1) You’re always going to lose people because not everyone is going to stay o rmove to the new location, etc
    2) You’re going to waste time/money/energy on hiring new people to fill the positions (assuming you’re trying to maintain headcount)
    3) Then the ramp up time for those new people is more time you’re wasting than keeping existing employees

    Doing a restructuring is a big time/resources/money sink. Even if at the end it ‘looks’ the same, you’re way farther behind simply because of attrition and getting new people into your pipeline and functional takes time.

  371. I this case the scam is more in reference to the inability to deliver the product promised.

    They are TRYING but given their burn rate (money going out vs money coming in) and the reported reserves they have, it seems unlikley they will be able to deliver.

    Derek Smart has never said that CIG are scammers with regards to actively decieving users to get money. However he feels that the current trajectory and game it would be impossible to achieve the goals stated given the technical and financial hurdles. And that they are making signficiant managerial blunders that are further jeapordizing the project

    One can look to DNF as an example. The main issue with DNF was accountability. 3DRealms was swimming in money. Their royalties/revenues from previous Duke games was so much that they could afford to do whatever they want. There was no publisher to hold them accountable to various business/technical decisions. They were free to change directin, change engines, etc. Constantly moving. But more or less in a circle. Bad managmeent and technical decisions made the project go nowhere constantly until they finally ran out of money and died.

    In the similar vein no one thinks CIG nor 3DRealms were ‘scammers’. But they did make catastropihcailly bad decisions, a lot of them, that caused their ultimate demise. the parallels are there.

  372. Now I see why you think Star Citizen is borderline unsalvageable. Aren’t AC and SM technical building blocks for SQ42? From what I understand, they’re testing grounds for the gameplay featured in SQ42 – the way the Hornet flies in AC is how the Hornet will fly in SQ42.
    The PU seems to be a different beast as there will be many different things going on that won’t be present in SQ42.

    I don’t know if scrapping all that (everything that isn’t a PU exclusive) is viable or feasible at this point.

    Though, this should be noted with the fact that I am not a game developer or producer. There are people far more qualified and able to give a far more informed opinion than I.

  373. The problem is: What you see in Elite Dangerous is all there is. I play both games. And even with my triple screen setup, EDtracker and my HOTAS playing ED got boring after noticing there is simply NO CONTENT. The technical base is solid, but its assets that cost money.
    Braben is planing 4-5 add ons. Each will cost about as much as the base game. So you have to spend about 240 pounds for the complete game. And not just high rollers, but EVERYONE who wants to play ED with all the content.

    And you don’t mind that?

    And it would be nice to inform your 10 friends that only a fraction of those 90 million went into what you showed to them. (Don’t gimme “There is no more”, even my 71 year old mother could research more content that hast already been made for SC)

  374. David: Yeah, we debated that last night and that was the case. It wasn’t clear why/when he got the probation. Hence the confusion.

  375. I guess it would depend on how that works? Like say I buy/pledge/etc my Phantom today. But I want things all rich people want like seats made from seal skin, an elephant ivory tusked cup holder, diamond encrusted rims etc. So I place my order and then RR says “Well you know our sourcing for seal skins is a bit light, we might delay your Phantom by 5 months” “Man that fiasco with that lion on the Internet really dried up our ivory supply, its probably going to take another 3 months” “Look we’ve been trying to steal the Hope Diamond for a efw months but Danny Ocean isn’t coming through, probably be another 6 months”

    IF, and its a big if, RR is making best effort to deliver your order but cannot due to whatever circumstances that are ‘reasonable-ish’ are they liable? I mean say a game is delayed 1 year that’s not super awesome but its not totally unheard of. I guess what is the line between “honest mistakes and things out of you control” vs “criminal negligence” that would be actionable by law?

  376. Lestat: Companies post job openings all the time as a sign of growth. It’s standard practice. It doesn’t mean that they ever intend on filling those positions.

  377. I know! Why, I heard that the real reason for the delays and non-deliveries was because Derek Smart personally went in to RSI’s code database and converted all of the Star Marine code to FORTRAN. He also peed in the water coolers. And kicked a puppy. Under no circumstances is the actual company producing the game responsible.

  378. You are right about 3)
    Nobody gives a flying fuck about pure mission based space shooters and all time console low is what killed high end gaming for the last ten years. That long 360/PS3 lifecycle made multiplatform games look like trash for the last few years.

    If the pitch had been 1) and 2) then the pledging would have ended after Kickstarter. No high rollers would have pledged, meaning no high fidelity at all.
    Even me and my 12 clan mates would not have backed more than 30 bucks, maybe not backed at all.
    I jumped on SC because my expectations are healthy low (Privateer Style gameplay with multiplayer, 1PV and FPS)
    And I don’t care how long it takes. If I wanted a game to be delievered fast I would stick to games from Electronic Arts.

    I am glad you are criticising the whole project. Not because I think you are right, but because everything that is revolutionay and new attracts critics.

    Your blog is proof to me that CIG is on the right track.

  379. While interesting just to play devils advocate, I mean you can play Elite so its going to look better now matter if you whipped me with cow intestines while playing Elite. I mean your comparison is fair with regards to trying to make a comaprision between two products that are as close as possible. But I feel also that it can be interpreted the wrong way,

    I mean does GTAV ‘look’ like a game that cost a zillion bucks to make? Well yes and no. I could make a comparison between two games and probably come up with a scenario where the more expensive game can look poorer by comparison. Like GW2 looks waaay better than most MMOs out there. But it cost less than most others. But those are design decisions of fidelity vs player population, etc.

    Note not saying SC is in good shape. But your poll while interesting does have some flaws in it. I do agree that general ‘polish’ is going to make a game feel better and thus more expensive if given a choice. From thta perspective Elite is going to have an advantage since its an actual released game.

  380. You know he did not get banned for this post, but for this one: “Sheeps like you are the problem.”
    (No namecalling, please, personal attacks are a forum Rule 1 violation.)

    So I don’t really see a problem in keeping a friendly atmosphere.

  381. So here’s a question. How is he ‘destroying the game’

    He’s so far posted some blog posts. Which last I checked doesn’t magically suck money out of a project nor cause code to magically implode upon itself when you do a nightly build. CIG could just ignore them. And nothing happens. He just keeps posting stuff. CIG can keep chugging along. They don’t have to engage him. They don’t have to listen. They can keep making the game. So first explain how a bunch of blog posts are supposedly ‘destroying the game’.

    Then lets look at hte only ACTUAL actionable thing going on. The legal request he made. Right now the only thing they legally needed to do was write a response to the legal notice. Which is like a few hours of work for a drunk paralegal to write up. The game continues to get made. Its not like they said “STOP EVERYTHING”. Again other than basically hiring a para legal to write up something, how does that ‘destroy the game’?

    Lets further assume that the legal action is successful and they have to do an audit. Ok. So basically a the top executives have to spend like 2-3 months going through an audit. The internal accountants are going to have long nights. But again, the legal action doesn’t require CIG to stop developing the game. Other than the top execs being busy and the accountant losing their minds, the game itself is not really impacted. I mean its not like Star Citizen doesn’t have a TON of stuff to actually do you know. Like all those jpg ships that aren’t even modelled yet. Or the net code. Or SQ42. Or literally everything in the game. Again the programmers/artists/etc don’t have to drop everything while the audit goes on. The game can still get made because the legal action isn’t about a copyright claim or some other thing with the game itself. Its just an audit.

    So again how is that ‘destroying the game’, if you’re under the assumption that
    1) the game is in good shape
    2) the game is going to be delivered on time
    3) they have enough money to complete the game

    If you’re insisting Derek Smart is going to ‘destroy the game’ then one or more of the 3 conditions above has to be in very very bad shape. Please feel free to pick which one or ones are the reason why. Because if all 3 are there, then the game cannot be ‘destroyed’ simply by an audit.

  382. This was on the thread at The Escape and for me, kinda sums it all up nicely:

  383. If it comes out and the scores look good I’ll definitely buy it. I really hope it comes out. But there are serious issues that need to be addressed, and accountability and transparency is the ONLY way to get there. Unfortunately the only way for that happen is for Derek to take them to court to force action.

    #BlackKnightsMatter #RespectTheBackers #Accountability #Transparency

    Too many hashtags?

  384. giogetmoney is a very useful tool for CIG. In like of Chris and Ortwin’s response as well as the rabid fan base he’s also a good reflection for the kind of people who back Star Citizen… vigorously.


    Haters gonna hate.

  385. But it still doesn’t explain how Star Citizen can still be a scam. If the money is simply being mismanaged, then that sucks but it isn’t illegal. Crowdfunding has risks that the buyer is made aware of when they send in their money. CIG collapsing would be a failed business venture in this case, not a scam.

    In order for it to be a scam, Chris Roberts would have had to have never had the intention of releasing a finished game. Why would he spend so much money on the project if this was the case?

  386. That’s why Derek said no publisher wants to buy CIG. They would have to take responsibility for CIG’s 90 million dollar liability.

  387. I’m a backer of star citizen from 2012 and i have big hopes on this project but lately i feel cheated.
    I do not remember where i read that cig is recruiting more staff, it is not illogical?
    I mean if they are running out money why the hell are they recruiting! They should cut spending!
    Derek you heard about that too?

  388. if you think the SC product is a poor one why not create your own and compete? If the SC product ends up being a 90 mil pile of dirt the bar is low and you can make a 50 mil master piece? Where is your competitive idea Derek?

  389. Ogre: I agree. There should be NO personal attacks against ANY employees of this company. All they’re doing is the job they were hired for. There is no love lost between Ben Lesnick and I, but I don’t badmouth him either.

    If you see anything of the sort in blog comments because they slipped through moderation, please post the perma-link in a message and I will review and remove.

  390. kxmode: That’s pretty interesting. Especially considering the whole idea behind selling ship “concepts” which aren’t even on schedule to be build for months to come.

  391. John: It’s interesting that you think “making great games” is my whale. It’s not. Clearly, you know nothing about me. Nor my games or the revenue they’ve generated these past decades.

  392. It’s one thing for you guys to attack the company directly, perhaps Chris Roberts, but it’s ridiculous, and I think Derek would agree, to attack individual employees. None of us are qualified enough to make a statement about an individuals personal skill set, and it’s getting a little crazy and ad hominem when you guys want to pick them out and say things about them. Derek Smart is going after CR and his company, the employees should be considered innocent. You guys need to stop this, it’s dangerous and harmful. I’d hope Derek would agree.

  393. Baldric: There is nothing that they can do to change my mind, other than comply with the three demands that I have been asking for. Those being:

    1) Complete forensics accounting
    2) Refunds for those who request it, and automatic refunds on Nov 2015 as per their ToS, due to non-delivery of the “game” promised
    3) Realistic timeline for the completion of the project. Even if it’s in 2018, I don’t care. They just need to go on the record with dates they can be held to

    I am not going to make design suggestions because

    1) I don’t have access to the design docs, so I have no idea wtf they’re doing
    2) That would imply that they have the tech to execute on the project

    If I were somehow the head of RSI/CIG tomorrow, this is what I’d do:


    1) Fire Chris Roberts, Sandra Roberts, Ortwin Freyemuth effective immediately. Note: Erin Roberts remains where he is.
    2) Strip all three of all shares in all companies (aside from Ortwin’s previously established companies used for this project e.g. Twin Bros GmBh which has been doing some refunds)
    3) In exchange for 1 & 2, construct an agreement whereby the company would not pursue legal action against all three if no evidence of fraud exists or later uncovered
    4) Work with the FTC on a reasonable plan to alleviate whatever it is they’re planning on doing as per their investigation
    5) Hire a competent person with experience heading multi-studio gaming companies
    6) Layoff all non-essential personnel and maintain the 3 (US, Frankfurt, Manchester) studios essential to the short-term goals
    7) Further cost cutting by hiring experienced third-party contractors to handle critical work
    8) Create a plan for the game’s production, communicate that plan to backers


    01) Halt any/all production work on Arena Commander, Star Marine, Multi-Crew, PU 2.0. No more updates. Maintain as separate branch until further notice. See #7
    02) Replace the CryEngine3 netcode with a more robust and massively multiplayer capable middleware solution such as either ReplicaNet or RakNet
    03) Focus on Squadron 42. Strip out any dependencies on Star Marine, Arena Commander, PU 1.0. By retaining the core functionality of what’s needed for and crucial to SQ42, it cuts down on the resources required to maintain these differing code bases and allows SQ42 to go full bore ahead.
    04) Focus on building the Social/Planetside module for those areas that are pertinent to the SQ42 story line. Nothing else.
    05) Focus on building ONLY the assets (ships, planetside, weapons etc) crucial to SQ42
    06) If SQ42 requires fps modes to move the storyline forward, either strip (since SM is required) that, or strip all non-essential items from SM module to the bare essentials
    07) Setup a ghost team (4 people) to come up with a plan for Star Citizen (includes Hangar, Star Marine, Social/Planetside, Persistent Universe)
    08) Hire a third-party contractor to build a parallel XB1 and PS4 branch for SQ42. Some backers are going to cry foul. They’re inconsequential to the big picture; so ignoring them is better than arguing. They’re going to still be pissed; but they’ve been lied to so much already, my guess is that some truth and hard decisions would go a long way. Alternate sources of legit revenue is better than selling goddamn pictures of ships!


    1) A PC/XB1/PS4 stand-alone mission based SQ42 with space combat. And depending on storyline, stripped down elements of Star Marine, Social/Planetide. Note that SQ32 is already using the flight dynamics model from Arena Commander anyway.
    2) A separate more manageable Star Citizen project with an open world MMO environment. Anything (hookers? farming? alien languages? – seriously?) that even looks like a pipe-dream, get rid of it.
    3) A lot of pissed off backers.

  394. Osiris: I’m only bad to people who a) don’t like me b) don’t like the fact that I’m the one blowing the whistle on this fiasco

  395. Ben: Yes, if it implodes, they get to keep it. HOWEVER, if the implosion is bankrupty; then no, it all goes into the bankruptcy for the court appointed trustee to auction. Anything that is company property is handled this way.

    If the three officers (Chris, Sandra, Ortwin) get sued, and they lose, they will be liable for damages. And if they file bankruptcy, then some of their assets go there as well.

  396. Scott: No, I don’t believe what they have produced thus far is worth $80m. That’s where financial accountability comes in.

  397. Hi Derek,

    I’ve gone on record to say I believe the way CIG sells ships is exactly the same way Rolls Royce sells their Phantom. Here’s a summary…

    Nobody walking into a RR’s dealership can buy a 2015 or 2016 Phantom on the spot. Each car is hand-built and made-to-order by dozens of specialists. Like Phantoms, CIG ships go through 40 difference specialists until it arrives nice and shiny in your “garage”. The buyer is typically placed in a queue and given an estimated delivery date. At this point the buyer is pledging for a Phantom. However, nobody in their right mind would call this a pledge. For all intents and purposes it’s a purchase.

    I would argue that buying CIG ships is a purchase because the method is nearly the same, and perhaps made worse because CIG never provides their buyers with a delivery date.

    If the conclusion can be made that buying a RR Phantom is a purchase then buying CIG ships should be classified the same. If Rolls Royce takes buyer money and three years later never delivers a car is this not the same as what CIG is doing with their early concept ships that have not been delivered (e.g. Starfarer)? Before I got my money back I had a $170 Starfarer in my collection that to date has never been delivered.

    Purchasing a CIG ship should come under several California State and Federal-based consumer protection laws. If Rolls Royce is fined greatly for non-delivery then at the very least CIG should be liable for non-delivery of ships.

    What do you think?

  398. At this point the white knights are so used to downvoting any mildly dissenting voice on Reddit, and upvoting whoever can drink the largest glass of Ortwin Freyermuth’s bathwater, that this is all new territory to them.

    Also, they were told there would be no reading involved. I mean, they don’t like math (“eeew, what would we do with CIG’s financial information. I don’t understand it, so I don’t think anyone should have it!”), so why would they like reading comprehension?

  399. I thought Escapist did real investigative journalism like any other media outlet investigating a brewing story would. How are they unbiased?

  400. That’s pretty much what happened to me. 24-ban then a 7-day ban for basically expressing a dissenting viewpoint. The Mods were only too quick to silence me.

  401. I was refunded $930 so I can speak from personal experience. You only get refunds for the things you bought. In my case this also included monthly subscription fees. If you were gifted items I don’t believe you will be refunded those items for obvious reasons.

  402. Hi Raphael. I believe I can help explain. When you have a moment please visit . That will explain the reasons behind why CIG can be on the verge of running out of money while simultaneously having money. It’s basically boils down to simple math.

  403. I am not saying this because i want others to follow me. I really appreciate the risks Derek Smart is taking here. I strongly think that the fanboi mentality of gamers has blinded so many players that they cannot see the disaster that is coming.

    Not only will the failure of SC be a huge hit to all those backers, it will disrupt and possible kill crowd funding of games in the future, damning future indie developers.

    Gamers need to come together and demand that this sort of out-right fraud is not going to be tolerated anymore.

    I went to steam and purchased LoD-Tactics, and the MMO LoD. This for me is the least i can do to show support to the one person (Derek Smart) willing to make a stand against the demise of crowd funding (Chris Roberts / CiG-Rsi).

    Thanks again Derek, i know i will be accused of “Hero Worship” or something worse, but i really don’t care, i see what you are trying to do here and i appreciate it.

  404. Aegis(?) Vindicator for $175. Hmmm. Well, combat ships sell the most. At that price, it competes with the super hornet. Right within the sweet spot to make the most unit sales and cash. Likely $2.5-3.5 million “funds” raised depending on flash/concept sale duration.

    CIG is desperately trying to copy the success of the Vanguard heavy fighter sales. If it’s true they are reusing parts from other Aegis ships, well, no shit. Vanguard is Aegis too.

    Gonna guess vanguard-like cockpit, 2nd seat for a gunner, wings closer in style to a retaliator, ship size in-line with hornets, twin engine medium fighter. A spacey F-14 would sell a lot.

    Lore-wise it can be a middle of campaign ship; gladius/hornet, to vindicator, to F8 lightings and vanguards.

    Hey Derek, if you manage to get pictures/descriptions to spoil the surprise, that would be hilarious. Your twitter will have so many foaming-mad folks. Reasonable people will realize you speak the truth.

  405. Curtis:

    Captain Ahab (DS) is a fictional character in Herman Melville’s Moby-Dick (1851), the monomaniacal captain of the whaling ship Pequod (3000AD). On a previous voyage, the white whale Moby Dick (CR/CIG) bit off Ahab’s leg (DS’ ego/super-ego), leaving him with a prosthesis made out of whalebone. Instead of leading the Pequod (3000AD) on a whaling voyage for profit (making great games), Ahab seeks revenge on the whale and casts his spell over the crew-members to enlist them in his fanatical mission. When Moby Dick is finally sighted and hunted down, Ahab’s hate robs him of all caution and denies him revenge.

    Moby Dick drags Ahab to his death.

  406. for the record I hate the grey market and everything it represents. But it exists completely outside of CIG’s control.

    Best case scenario you get a ruling forcing CIG to prevent the trading of ships (aka no more ability to gift a ship). People will just sell accounts. You can’t stop it no matter what you do to CIG.

  407. I do realize that indeed. People do tend to cry “cult” when a group of people get together and share a profound belief in something that the mainstream do not believe in. I am ok with being called a cult member. I get it. But it does not diminish my faith in CIG

  408. Point in fact, it will never be enough. Most of us plan on backing the game financially for many many years. Maybe not to the tune of 3 million a month, but we plan on keeping the game running and the employees paid. Sure there will be down sizing and lay offs, as is the nature of the business.

  409. I realize that “state citizen” was a typo, and I’m really not trying to be low-brow, but is it possible that your subconscious was trying to tell you something?

    I believe in the game too. Just not with Chris Roberts at the helm.

    There’s an Onion video (might still be on Youtube) about a 90+ year old neurosurgeon, doing brain surgeries with his hands shaking and nurses pointing him in the direction of the operating table.

    Would you want him operating on your loved ones?

    If you believe in the game, like we all do, deep inside you know Chris Roberts not only doesn’t have what it takes to complete it, but in fact has a track record indicating exactly that.

    Someone here does need to go away, and it’s Chris. CIG needs a strong leader, and about double the money and time. Then maybe we’ll see this thing before we die.

  410. Hi Derek,

    I’ll be real honest, I haven’t played any of your games and I don’t have any previous interactions with you in any way. Your reputation did precede you and it wasn’t a great reputation. I have really only seen your blog and twitter since this Star Citizen fiasco started. Admittedly I am a backer, so with a dog in this race my opinions will be biased by my hopes for Star Citizen.

    For the record I don’t really like the way you have handled this situation, I feel that some of your concerns and points are quite valid, but I feel that you have undermined yourself with an aggressive attitude and an arrogant tone. On the flip side I haven’t liked the way CIG has managed this situation either, similarly adopting an aggressive attitude.

    I want to ask a hypothetical question, assuming that CIG do not comply with any of the demands in your original letter to them, is there anything that they could do that would change your mind about Star Citizen and CIG? i.e. could they show you enough progress (and/or release the game) to satisfy your discontent with the product. Or will this forever have put you off CIG games?

    I have also seen you criticize a lot of the design choices but haven’t seen you suggest any alternative courses of action. So hypothetically speaking, tomorrow morning Derek Smart is in charge of SC and CIG, what is your five to ten step plan to right the ship and get the project back on course? I know you think it will never come out, but I’m more interested in how you would approach fixing the project woes.

    Anyway thanks for reading, if you do read this.


  411. Hello,

    May I pose a question? I’m confused.

    What I don’t understand is that on SC forums any discussion revolving SC and your opinion is negated on the grounds you are bad. Why are you considered bad? This opinion of yours provided here is critical but reasonably so. I don’t know what your relation to Roberts is, but what I see happening, and what you have said here seem to align.

    I backed SC in the first few days of Chris Roberts’ campaign on his webpage. I’ve only ever played Freelancer that apparently he made ( I didn’t initially know that).

  412. If I am not mistaken backer money was used to buy expensive ass camera equipment and setup a MoCap studio. They will get to keep those assets when this implodes correct?

  413. It’s simple, follow the money. Do you think it actually cost $82 Million for AC, Hangar, Arc Corp and a couple of Demos?

  414. “They don’t need a champion. If you want to be somebody’s champion”

    Wrong. The Avengers need Hulk!

    And people should stop to provoke him more. Or…

  415. Which always was a case of CIG breaking consumer rights when banning people for that, as I posted a few comments above:

    “3-) Warn other consumers — comment on the creator’s profile on the crowdfunding site.”

    That’s what FTC suggest people to do. But CIG, in its own crowdfunding platform, denies his right that the Federal authorities say that people can do. And notice that they have this right to alert people when they think that the thing is a scam. And that guy did not make even that.

    This is all wrong. CIG is doing wrong and ignoring their responsibilities to respect consumers. Hopefully Derek and more people sue them so CIG be put in the place that they deserve and give the example that is necessary for the future of crowdfunding.

  416. 1. Nice title meme there, but you do realize that Loki, while his immediate plans for Earth fail, doesn’t exactly “crash and burn” in The Avengers, right? He even takes the throne in the next Marvel cinematic universe movie.

    After spent some time in the jail, Loki did that. First he went to jail 😉

  417. No, because in the moment that someone “gifted” their packages to other people, they are ‘giving up’ of the money that they put in the project. And who assumed that account gifted, did not pay anything, so, have nothing to refund.
    This is a very common situation in this project. A huge number of people did not pay a dime for it. They were all gifted by backers/whales who bought many accounts to give away for free, in the hope to promote the game. This money, CIG never would need to refund. And I think that its a lot actually.

  418. Did you ask Chris Roberts, Sandi Gardiner, Erin, Ortwin, about their salaries and comissions? Ask them. If they answer to you, honestly, you will understand the lack of logic of your argument… Specially if you remember that CR quote “I just want to make the game that I want to play”, or those about “Greedy publishers”. lol
    And this is just one way that they can deviate a lot of the money from the project to personal matters, and pretend that spend all “in the project”.

  419. I made a test. I told people that never heard about any of these games, that one of them is a $90m Arena PvP Space Sim and asked them to guess which one:

    This one:
    or this one:

    Tried with 10 people. From different countries/cultures, all gamers but that never saw one or another game. I tried to with another 10 which actually know both too. Everyone elected the 2nd as the “$90m game”, because, obviously, assume that the “Better” game would be the more expensive one, in cost and time. Unanimous.

    When I told to the 1st 10 that they were wrong and that the 2nd was made in less development time with less money than the 1st, they were shocked.

    Lesson learned: More money, more time, more quality, better game? Bullshit! It depends of who got the money. Pointless effort that those SC fanboys keep doing. They are only making sure to destroy their own project. Specially with ED been effective/result oriented/fair business as they have been.

  420. I’d like to remind people that a pledge, legally, means that should a project that people have pledged money for fail, it’s an accepted risk. It’s a pledge, NOT an investment regardless of your personal definition.

    I invest my time and money into things, doesn’t mean I call my personal life, affairs, activities etc “Investments”.

  421. So if you can’t even explain how this works, then why should anyone take any of your allegations seriously? You stopped writing your comment because you realized that it’s impossible to explain.

    The only possible way your argument could work is that Chris Roberts is a scammer, but is bad at scamming and lost all his money. I find that rather unlikely.

  422. If you read thoroughly, you will see that previous blog’s “con” part is just an interesting comparison to how con works, and not an accusation of scamming. If you read the series thoroughly, you will also see what actual accusations are about.

  423. Agreed. I just cannot wrap my head around why this game is being released in “modules”. It’s like if someone is making Super Mario Bros., but instead of a few levels to hop around in for an alpha, they release one “module” where it’s just Mario and some bricks to break, and then one where all you can do is jump on a few enemies, then another where all you do is travel through pipes. No one would take that project seriously.

    As bad as some Kickstarter and Early Access projects have turned out, there are others that were wildly successful. Shadowrun Returns is a good example. The Shadowrun franchise has some rabid fans with deep pockets, and had Harebrained Schemes not been a competent studio they could have done the same thing that RSI has done. Thankfully they took the sensible rout and promised a small scale game that was just primarily a level editor. They had plenty of fans screaming that the game was just too small and they should go bigger and more robust, but the team held firm and did what they knew was possible and released it in just a couple years.

    After that then they began to expand the game. Even their stretch goals were sensible, they were primarily things that were already doable in the game that was planned (like new classes and levels) not entire new features! As a result, they were able to raise millions of dollars in just a few hours with their Battletech Kickstarter based off of their winning track record. No one doubts they will deliver what is promised.

    Prison Architect is another great example. Congrats to those guys who just released V1.0 Yesterday! They not only delivered what they promised, but added new features that no one expected! They were able to do so well because the released actual monthly dev updates with actual content, not that bullcrap that RSI puts out claiming how much progress they have made without actually releasing anything to back it up. Take note guys! This is how real indy devs are succeeding in the crowdfunding world.

  424. Apparently some people don’t know how to read.

    You see the notice above this box? It means that your shit-posting is never – ever going to appear here. So why bother writing an entire paragraph that only my poor social media person is just going to delete during moderation, and I never get to see?


  425. Jeremy: you made me lol. But seriously, I don’t believe that anybody wants this game to fail. The reality is that it’s just too late to save it. The point of no return was reached a year ago I think.

  426. Raphael: I started to type up a comment to explain it to you. Then I gave up and decided to make a sandwich instead. Maybe someone else can explain it to you.

  427. Malcom: sorry, I’m not offering $149.96 for DLC. That’s wrong. Each of the LoD “Tactical Advancement Kit” contains different items. They’re just optional items in separate discounted bundles. The least you could’ve done, was, well, maybe just read it?

  428. Aside from the fact that you’ll borderline attempt anything, including slander, if it means that you don’t have to admit you’re wrong. By the way, you know you can be held legally responsible for the broad assumptions you’re throwing around, right? I didn’t know if that had crossed your mind or not. Your lack of references or any way to actually check on what you’re assuming coupled with any potential loss in business for CIG can spell out a massive lawsuit against you.

  429. As far as I can tell, the only people who become this obsessed with something are those of a butt-hurt nature. Backers (I being one) gave their money freely, understanding the risks involved. To turn around on someone who you supported, because they aren’t fulfilling the “dream” we all knew this to be, but hoped for yet, is about as dumb is gets. Also, personal investigation or not, you can only take ownership of the money you put into it. To attempt to lead some retractive revolution in an effort to get a bunch people riled up as though you are their personal savior is just dense. Let it play out and see what happens or take your money back. You’ve claimed you can’t take your money back, yet there are hundreds of those who have already… so again, you’re clearly just trying to rile everyone up and make some “friends” in the process. You started your own website to house all of this, if that doesn’t scream “ego” I don’t know what does.

  430. @Leeford Think you’re missing the point. The point is that if someone promises a game. They get what they want and ends up with 90$ and still can’t get a viable product out the door. It doesn’t matter if you throw another $90M at the screen. You can’t get rid of incompetence with more money. Having a vision is fine, but you need competent people to build that vision and you need to trust the people that you have. Currently it sounds like Mr. Roberts wants to be part of all the decisions being made and fire people for voicing their opinion that doesn’t comply with his wishes.

    That is if the above information is correct. But I mean if RSI didn’t have anything to hide, they would be more transparent I would think. I mean if someone would go at me like this and I didn’t have anything to hide I would invite the suspected parties and assure them and not go on the counter-offensive. C&D letters is in my opinion a desperate action for desperate times.

  431. To be fair: Till about the 20million mark he always said he would subsidize the crowdfunding with additional investors money. Only then did he say “ok, we don’t need that cash anymore”

  432. People want this game to fail and there going to do everything they can to make it happen so they can say they were right from the get go like a messiah and make personal gains.

    Everyone knows the est. time of completion for this project is going to take longer than promised all that matters is the end result.

    PC needs this game fuck you gaming industry!!!

    Thank you Crytek for making Cryengine!!!

    Derek I have no allegiance to either faction(all this tension is making factions) except PC and the other humans that enjoy the same thing.

  433. I listened to a podcast where she describes doing an MBA at an Australian uni with her describing what appears to be a secondment to UCLA.

    Presumably her MBA would be from that Aussie Uni not UCLA.

    At the end of the day the quals dont matter (other than showing dishonesty) when you have her on record describing her experience.

    They might have a very good HR manager but he/she would be towing the line and enjoying the professional experience of trying to manage poor HR practices from senior staff, minimise damage, educate etc.

    Where is the CIG PR dude in all this ?

  434. Is it just me or this blog post seemingly contradicts the previous one? If CIG are on the verge of running out of money, then that means that they aren’t scamming people. What kind of scam leaves the scammers bankrupt? However, if Star Citizen is a scam, then they can’t be going bankrupt because they aren’t spending their funds on the game, but merely appropriating it for themselves.

    So, is Star Citizen a scam, or simply a project doomed to fail? Make up your mind.

  435. Hi Derek.

    Many people are claiming that you or anyone who believes that Star Citizen is doing wrong things, disrespecting consumers, are doing a wrong, are been evil, have “an agenda”, or is a troll. They actually have been doing that for years with any person who wants to prevent other consumers to lose their money with this project. They even go to levels as claiming that would sue people for defamation.

    But the thing that escape of all these ignorant people is this…

    The FTC advises backers that if you learn about a crowdfunding scam:

    1-) File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission.
    2-) File a complaint with your state Attorney General.
    3-) Warn other consumers — comment on the creator’s profile on the crowdfunding site.

    As all these people can see, in the #3, you, me, or any person who believes that there is wrong doing behind the doors of CIG with backers money are recommended by the Federal Authorities to warn other consumers and comment on the creator’s profile on the crowdfunding site.

    And the thing is, Cloud Imperium Games will ban people, from their crowdfunding platform that they created, from the forums, or comm-links, that is the place when you can comment (the creator’s profile) to get money from people, when they dare to try to warn other consumers.

    So here we have another thing that Cloud Imperium Games is doing wrong. Are avoiding the consumers to pursuit with something that the Federal Authorities recommend the consumers do.

  436. Perhaps he also blocks exists at certain times to stop employees trying to escape tantrums and witch hunts

  437. CIG and CR et al need to be robust enough to take this where it is malicious or not.

    It isnt that complicated, it is foreseeable and a professional outfit should be able to deal wit hit in their stride.

    Where is the professional PR in CR and Ortwins responses. Deliberately absent to drum up more Pledge sales – unlikely.

    We have respected legal commentators reporting the folly of CIGs threats of legal action – not the whole story but an important consideration for those refusing to cast a critical eye in CIGs direction.

  438. I am delighted Derek is sticking the boot in here. Whether or not you agree with the tactics and methods someone had to. IF the game launches in a decent enough timeframe and specification having a kick up the arse may well have been a major contributor.

  439. So 90 million turns into 180. And when will it ever be enough? Is the SC backer cult willing to risk another 90 or so mill on a project that’s only produced concept art, maybe some ships, and a few tech demos to this date? Hey maybe in 4 more years they’ll add a few more tech demos and a browser game too! Then it’ll be “They just need another 180 mill promise!” I’m also pretty sure they don’t have 1 million backers, maybe a bunch of whales that equal 1 million pounds.

  440. Oh i see it is from source. Thanks for clearing that up. These machines usually make both espresso and cappuccino 🙂

  441. If you ask for a refund, do they only give you one based on the items you bought personally, or on any items you have in your hangar that you bought from a third party and were gifted to your account? Considering those were paid for by other people, would they even be able to process the refund?

  442. Well, I guess this is “the end” for my commenting here as well. At least I’ve seem to have managed to dissuade some people (hiya, Derek!) from throwing around the word “public money” as much in contextes where it’s completely misplaced 😉 Everything else has been said and written.
    Just two tiny things:
    1. Nice title meme there, but you do realize that Loki, while his immediate plans for Earth fail, doesn’t exactly “crash and burn” in The Avengers, right? He even takes the throne in the next Marvel cinematic universe movie.
    2. Just leaving this here:
    Not least because of this quote: “And this brings me to my larger point: the time to sit down and judge whether this has all been worth it will be after the game is released. I know this is a novel concept, but trying to review art (and whatever you think about games I think it’s clear that a great deal are works of art – to a greater or lesser extent) before its finished is an exercise in futility.”

    I’m not going to wish you good luck in this, Mr. Smart, as I believe our interests are diametrically opposed.

  443. Who is “up to the task” when Chris Roberts is on the helm?
    By the way, It was funny when they tried to promote themselves at the beginning, claiming the use of Agile methodology, even showing some scrum-style meetings in their shows.
    And now we know that Roberts, basically decides everything or anything, micromanage, approve things and later disapprove what passed before, which basically, is totally against the entire mindset necessary to follow Agile properly. You can’t follow Agile without the Agile mindset.
    The thing is… I am trying to find if there is a single thing that Chris Roberts made or make right in this project. I am still trying to find something. 3 years later I found nothing so far.

  444. “but I disagree with your reading that blanket refunds are due on this date. In particular, I pledged only 1 year ago, when estimates for delivery were close to what they are now, why would I possibly expect a refund and under what pretense would anyone ask for one on my behalf?”

    1-) They mislead consumers through several baits and lies and acted in bad faith, which invalidates their TOS entirely;

    2-) The own Chris Roberts, CEO of Cloud Imperium Games, to promote himself and to claim honesty, came to the public and said that everyone that does not want to keep in the project will get their refunds back. In the moment that he went to public with such statement (And taking an advantage from that, because that makes people believe that he is a good/honest guy and the company is acting in good faith), that becomes a promise, no matter what is in the TOS. Because if its not, it was, again, just another instance of false advertising which falls again in the case #1.

    In summary, everyone that backed this project is entitled to a refund. Don’t get who is dumb enough of not knowing how to and under what basis to ask.

    “As an outside agitator demonstrably advocating for others to break their solemn promises to me, are you liable to me for tortuious interference of our contract?”

    CIG breached their contract. They made that choice. They assumed the risk. So now, you are trying to say that CIG can breach the contract all that they want, but consumer does not become entitled to anything? Obviously, you are wrong, because that would mean that the contract is simply meaningless.

  445. I really don’t get it if this is their marketing plan. Let’s take a quick look at another alpha release game. (I am not trying to advert for them, just using this as a comparison.) Space Engineers has been in EA for a couple years now. The game is not without bugs, but certainly is playable and fun. They have done very little in advertising other than word of mouth (free) posting on their own sites and blogs (very cheap) and attending a couple of cons/ doing interviews. (not cheap but they don’t attend every event known to man or make their own special events either) They have sold over 1 million copies and have not even left alpha yet and have done this with zero controversy (other than the typical white knighting that seems to pervade all gaming groups now) and have spent very little to do it.

  446. “Derek if you are pursing Legal action against CIG you are threatening every single backers investment.”

    The means do not justify the ends. You can get the best damn space sim ever, all that you want. But Cloud Imperium Games must to pay for the abusive behavior with several consumers and by misrepresenting many things, including the objective of crowdfunding.

    It’s an horrible precedent and must to be fought against, if gamers want a consumer-friendly environment, specially in crowdfunding ventures, instead cults and “famous” devs hiding behind themselves, to make all kinds of unilateral changes in the deals made.

  447. White Knights don’t seem to think maintaining multiple branches of code has an overhead. They think the cost is low. These are people who claim to have worked on larger projects than Star Citizen. I say they are full of shit.

    I am actually a developer. My shop branches from Main for individual projects since we may have more than one project going simultaneously but different release dates . Everything gets merged back to main. Its all fine and dandy when you are not making changes in different branches to the same code. Shit hits the fan when you do and our source is no where near the size of theirs. Lets not get into CryEngine updates. What branch that go in?

    White Knights won’t even admit there are three branches(Main,Star Marine, Demo). CIG tries to hide it but it is all there if you know how to read. Merges are a clusterfuck pain in the ass. That too is in the damn monthly reports.

    Everything the nine “informants” have said is supported by the content of the monthly reports and Star Marine status reports. No amount of PR can hide that.These imbeciles lack reading comprehension.

  448. “Keep in mind. I don’t think you want to prove anything to anyone. But you did decide to make this matter public. As such I imagine your goal is to warn people.”

    Not about the lawsuit. I guess his goal is to alert people to avoid losing their money due the project been FUBAR, regardless lawsuit.

    The lawsuit is more because CIG made that personal. Seriously. You go there, try to ask clarification for a company that promised you something, and you are entitled to have clarifications (despite idiots saying that you are not), and instead clarification, the company try to burn your image in public, to offend you, to humiliate you and to encourage people to harass you.

    What do you think that would be YOUR reaction? What conclusions you would take, based in all that you already know or noticed, plus the overreaction of the company?

  449. That sounds borderline sycophantic. You realize this is why people call it the Cult of Star Citizen, right?

  450. And who is telling the truth? No one has produced any shred of evidence at this stage. All there is past endeavours, you’re only as good as your last project.

  451. Writing blogs/tweeting inevitably takes you away from other things – it’s a question of how often it does, obviously (replying to your comment is taking me away from something more productive, I’ll admit). As an outsider observer, you do seem to pour considerable time into the anti-Star Citizen campaign (taking legal action isn’t a trifling matter, after all) – but… it’s true, I don’t know how much of a time sink it is.

    But that’s not my point, really. You describe this as your hobby. Why on earth would this be your hobby? Have you really exhausted all other options, all other positive experiences? Have you truly arrived at a state where this is the most important and valuable thing you can do with your time?

    Do you play an instrument? If not, learn – it’s a salve for the soul. Listen to music. Read some books. Get a dog. Bake cakes. Walk, cycle, play sport. Play the video games you enjoy. Branch out into board games. Watch TV. Draw or paint. Take up gardening. Make models – and that’s just the ‘selfish’ stuff.

    Disgruntled SC backers can stand up for themselves; they can post on forums; they can request refunds and make a lot of noise if they’re refused. They don’t need a champion. If you want to be somebody’s champion, there are millions fleeing for their lives or being slaughtered in Syria – they need a champion or several. Wouldn’t that be a worthier cause? Wouldn’t a great many things be?

    I don’t believe I described you as dishonest – I honestly don’t know if you are or not. I’m just baffled as to why you’re acting in the way you are, with the vehemence, the drive that you are. If it’s not anger, what is it?

    It’s your completely choice obviously – I’m just curious.

    All the best,


  452. Hi Derek,
    I had hoped there was more to it. But what you have said is bad enough. So basically the people CR surrounded himself with and now have surrounding him have 0 experience.

    I take it the Austin guys did the AC/Hangar and the only reason it got done was because it had the core of the hardliners who wanted to create a game but where dumped. Since CR was out in LA most of the time.

    And why Ben moved out to LA. It is just staggering that he knows all of it about CR and the $ yet keeps the forums + press free of negativity. I had a couple of run ins with him when I questioned some things and then the moderation started on me.

    It is just a sad situation.

  453. 80% of who? People from the forums.
    All their forum polls are worthless, because you know, are the people from the forums (whatever people not satisfied won’t stay that for too long).

  454. As someone who is deeply aware of your sordid history in the game industry, I admit to dismissing you as a ranting, jealous idiot initially. Your games are terrible and I find you abrasive, mean and incredibly egotistical. I’m not your biggest fan. But I admit I was harsh in my criticisms of you and for a time it did blind me to your true intentions.

    I cannot deny your consistency in this issue and the reasons why you’re continually escalating. CIG have handled this terribly and you smell blood. I admit that this entire thing has left me scratching my head, but no matter how hard I try, I can’t condemn you for this. You’re right in that if things were going as smoothly as they said they were going, they wouldn’t have reacted as badly as they did. But I argue that they are simply ill equipped in dealing with the likes of you. A guy who knows how the internet and public discourse works. You operate on the fringes of the law to get what you want, ever careful not to misstep while you work to unravel your rival’s operations leaving them exasperated and angry. They knee jerk and claim you’re personally attacking them and that you’re jealous and whatnot, digging themselves a deeper hole because you didn’t actually say any of that.

    I am unhappy with the realization that they’re becoming the bad guys in this battle because I love their game and I’ve put 500 bucks into it. In saying that, I admire your consistency and tenacity and attention to detail. I don’t believe you have all the facts but that doesn’t matter. You know how to sway opinion and pressure people into giving you what you want and that’s admirable, especially in this case. Thanks for that.

    I do want to ask you one thing though. This whole 8 million dollars remaining bit, which I personally find laughable, how would your sources know this? Are they in upper management or finance? I’ve been working at my company now for quite a while. I’m a senior employee. I still don’t know how they spend their money. All’s I know is they get upwards of 40% of my salary in government subsidies every year… :/ Yes I know I’m singing the same song as CR did in his letter, but it really is a valid point, and one I immediately sided with him on because of what I know about this industry.

    I also find your comments on this game being in development for four years… not dishonest perse, but untrue. CIG was founded in the middle of 2012. The KS campaign ended the end of that year. The game has been in active development for close to three years. Not four. And throughout all of that, they didn’t have 261 employees. I find the promises they made laughable and unrealistic, sure, but I don’t think they’ve squandered or embezzled the money because a.) there’s no evidence, just rhetoric and b.) their progress has actually been pretty damn amazing.

    Anyways, we’ll see what happens in the coming months, Derek. If this game succeeds, I won’t rub it in your face ;p. But I will hold you to what you said about congratulating CIG and saying you were wrong. You do that, and I promise to suffer through Line of Defense and throw some money your way LOL.

  455. Wouldn’t that be a convenient excuse to take the money and run… “Ongoing litigation has forced us to cease production of Star Citizen indefinitely”. Sounds like the perfect plan…

  456. Mr Smart,

    I’ve played the alpha in its most recent form and I have to say, I’m incredibly impressed with the attention to detail they have put into just this thus far. There does seem to be serious quality control. I highly recommend you find a backer and give it a whirl.

    Also, can you please explain to me how your business practice differs from Robert’s?

    You condemn the time its taking his team when you responded to similar concerns on your game on your steam forum with “it’ll be ready when it’s ready.”

    You condemn his charging money for ships. Granted your asking price for your base game is much more reasonable (down from its original $100), but you are still offering $149.96 in DLC for a Beta.

    Thank you for taking time out of work on your game to read my response.


  457. I dislike you, really I do but that Ben, dunno just something about him I really dislike. He’s pretty clueless, half the information he spouts is false. I think my Microwave would be better qualified. I honestly don’t think he has half a clue – he’s just there to be the novelty cute love-able fat guy, I don’t trust him one bit. You can see It in his eyes, he’d screw you over as quick as he’d eat a cake. Hell, he has screwed most people over, he’s in charge of what ships get sold and probably how they get sold (we can all agree they’ve done some horrible selling methods)

    The amount of times they’ve sold hull limited ships again after promises not to, yup that’s all his doing.

  458. Well…if CIG can’t build it with 90 million, we will give CIG another 90 million. And if it takes a 16 core supercomputer to run it, I sure am going to enjoy building THAT machine. You know something Derek? Even if you are correct in all of your assertions and have zero faith in the project, you do not seem to account for the nearly 1 million backers who are sharing the same vision as Chris Roberts. We will have our game if we have to carry CR around the moons of Nibia and round the Antares Maelstrom and round perdition’s Flames before we give him up!

  459. Hi Derek.

    Thanks for your reply.
    Completely understand the pre lawsuit “dance”. But are you still in that dance? From what I understood that dance had already finished before The Escapist article. So have you already filled the lawsuit? And if not, how much longer do you think it will take?

    Keep in mind. I don’t think you want to prove anything to anyone. But you did decide to make this matter public. As such I imagine your goal is to warn people.
    It would help us all, if we had some kind of proof that you’re not just playing politics. That you are moving forward with this.
    Don´t get me wrong please. It is the same thing for CIG and threatning a lawsuit to The Escapist.
    If they just make a threat and don´t sue, their image will image will be impacted as it will seem that they aren´t sure they can win in court.

  460. You explain very briefly what the grey market is but make no explanation of any kind as to why it is illegal.
    And even if it is illegal you can’t stop the Grey market anymore than you can stop file sharing.

  461. Headdie: Hiya, thanks for reaching out.

    I have been following those threads. As you’ve probably noticed by my absence there, I tend to post in very few places nowadays because I don’t have time to engage in attacks. Which is why my blog comments and my own forums; even my social media fees, are moderated. Some people simply cannot engage in discourse without attacking others. I grew too old for that crap.

    You made a very good point about the investment. As a gamer, I am torn by what is going on and what I know I am left with no choice but to do. Unlike Ortwin, I don’t have a record of making empty legal threats. Those are just a waste of my time. If we don’t reach an agreement whereby we meet somewhere in the middle of this, and they convince me that all is well, I’m going to take legal action. It really is that simple.

    I can 100% guarantee you, the minute that this ends up in the legal system, that’s pretty much going to solidify that I was right all along, and it will cause the immediate collapse of the project and all its corporate entities if they are still a going concern at the time of the events. I have access to a lot more than the general public is aware of and I think that RSI/CIG know this by now. And all they’re doing is playing a very expensive game of chicken with me. They will lose.

    The other day, I was composing a proposal to all you gamers (not the rabid White Knights) who are at risk of losing your money on this. It basically asks you all to stop funding the project and to ask for a refund when you can. When you look at the whales still funding it, you can easily see that they can offset the loss to refunds. So let them stick it out. The conservatives need to get out. Especially now that my next goal is to cause the complete and catastrophic collapse of the illegal Grey market. I can do it. And I will do it.

  462. I might’ve made some writing blunders and threw off my nuances. But you did answer the exit strategy. It’s mean of me to say this, but I look forward to it.

    I thought, and still think, Chris was very genuine at the start. Then cash came in. The rest you alluded to in your blog.

    No idea where my refund is atm. If they start making it harder, I’ll let you know.

  463. Joao: Don’t believe everything you read on Internet forums by clueless nitwits. In the past two decades I have taken legal action against various publishers and individuals. It’s all there in the public record. And I prevailed in all of them simply because I never – ever – engage in legal action unless I was 99% confident that I was right, and would thus prevail. Which is why those who know me and see this issue I am pursuing, realize that I wouldn’t be doing it if I wasn’t confident that I would prevail.

    I stopped paying attention to that 4 vs 3 yr argument because it is foolish. It’s been 4 yrs. Chris and others have come right out and said that they were “working on it” one year prior to KS.

    I am game designer and lead engineer, when I spend a year working on something, I don’t trash it all, then start over. e.g. Even with LOD, we spent a year (2010 to early 2011) working on built-from-scratch custom engine. In the end after I did an evaluation, I realized that we were just re-inventing the wheel. I made the call to scrap it, take the financial hit and go a different route. That route ended up being the licensing of lots of middleware to cobble together to build a robust custom engine. And even with all that work, we didn’t scrap everything from the previous. We migrated a lot of that code, and of course we kept all the content since they weren’t affected. The only down side to doing that was the content was tailored toward the original game design and graphics pipeline in the previous engine.

    As to the lawsuit, that’s not your call to make; and I’m not out to prove anything to anyone. There is a forum for everything and there are legal procedures in place.

    And no, it hasn’t been three months. It wasn’t until the end of Aug that the first demand letter was sent. You don’t just march into court to sue someone, especially in a matter like this, without first opening dialog with the other side. They responded, we responded back. It’s a dance. That’s how legal issues work. And even in my recent email to Ortwin, I was still trying to find a way to avoid any legal hassle; even in the face of his ludicrous (I just lol at those) threats.

    As I have posted in the blog, I tried to have that dialog with Chris numerous times. He refused to engage and so he left me with no choice. I think this has been made clear in the blogs. You might want to read them again.

  464. I really wonder what sort of tickets CIG has to deal with most of the time. There isn’t really a game for them to support so players are not getting stuck under the map or being harassed by other players. Perhaps they are predominantly related to gray market ship sales gone bad and refund requests? It’s either they are dealing with the above, or they only have a handful of customer support staff who may have other roles. I believe Sandi helps with tickets from time to time and may even oversee that department.

  465. I’m a Kickstarter backer who three years ago gave money to RSI/CIG for a Freelancer 2.0. It’s now three years later, the scope was changed after taking my money, and worst of all we have essentially nothing to show for it other than a P2W arena mode. I’d rather play the original Freelancer than what is presently available in the form of Star Citizen “modules”. The original TOS promised an audit, that is what I want. Audits keep people and companies honest, especially when they’ve raised nearly a hundred million dollars of public funds.

  466. MDrake: Yeah, I have an idea of they cost. They are super expensive. Which is part of the ludicrous financial burn. But those ships look so cool though, right?

    I don’t believe that Chris set out to perpetrate a con. What’s transpired has all the makings of a con. Pretty much the same way that the rabid White Knights are acting like Scientology cult wannabes. Once you engage in a pattern, if you look hard enough, you will find a similar pattern in society that you can attach to it.

    RSI/CIG are not fine. I have said this since July. People are coming forward saying the same thing. Anyone who doesn’t listen, that’s on them. It’s not like this is the first time a game industry studio has collapsed.

    The thing about this is what I alluded to in my blog. No matter the exit strategy, they will be held personally accountable even if the entities are all LLC. Improper conduct, malfeasance, fraud – are all actionable against the officers, regardless of what happens to the LLC.

  467. Considering that as a backer I spent a lot of time getting limited quantity ships, programming my custom Warthog controls via XML, I sure as heck had no voice on the forums for 2 simple reasons – LTI for any cash pledges and Chris Roberts has failed before.

    Well, LTI don’t mean shit now. And Chris has once again demonstrated his amateur CEO behavior in public light. This is Freelancer 2.2. The .2 for the “letters.”

  468. me: Actually as the lead community person (with zero prior industry experience btw) he is the community face for Chris and Sandra.

  469. In my hypothetical scenario they would be suing CIG and the Publisher which gave CIG extra funds and resources in order to release a game with a reduced scope. Obviously if CIG were to collapse in 2016 with no outside investor(s) to save them, the legal situation would be much different.

  470. MoSmart: my point was that this was not the game they pitched. Back in 2012, they said they would make – this same game – for $6m. Still no game. And that’s because he increased the scope to the point where it takes longer to do, while building the tech. However, the key part is that if you mismanage the funds, the people etc, the money you had suddenly dries up. So if you could’ve made the game was $20m, you find out that through all these problems, and the revelation that the “dream” was profoundly ridiculous to begin with, the real costs come to light. Hence my projection of $150m.

  471. snarf9988: well “not production” (aka “release”) implies either “alpha” or “beta”. Hence the point I was making. That’s why all the stuff they have been showing, have yet to be pushed to production (released to backers) for playtesting. They are created as tech demos in a controlled (specific HW and networks capable of running it) environment such as they would back at the studios.

    Remember that they have source code license to CryEngine3. So they do have the capability to off-loading various tasks to specific cores. It’s not rocket science to lead engineers (such as myself) tbh. What I’ve gathered is that there is a ~20 ms delay somewhere in the nodes that’s causing a problem. That translates to the sort of hiccup you would see if you were running a multiplayer game and experienced lag.

  472. Jake: It’s hard to understand my motivation, but I covered it right there in the opening section of the blog. Truth be told, I’m not angry (it’s not an emotion that comes to me easily) at all.

    Also, I’m not doing this for the emotionally invested. I am doing it for those who don’t have a voice, were duped into this – and primarily because they made it personal. I have all my faults, but I am neither dishonest, nor vindictive. Right off the bat, they made it about me, trying to turn attention away from this issue in an attempt to change the narrative.

    Also, I don’t see how writing blogs – in my spare/ample time – ends up taking me away from other things. You do realize that’s how hobbies work, right?

  473. kxmode: I won’t publish our findings nor will I be doing a blog dedicated to that. I don’t feel that it’s relevant. What’s relevant is that in a lawsuit, I’d have to prove these claims. And since I can, that’s pretty much where it ends. And in any such lawsuit, her responses and the evidence will be a part of the pleadings, and in turn, the public record. So anyone can pull up the court records decades later and see it all in there.

  474. I have to say, I’m left questioning BOTH sides in the argument. (Also I am a backer, so I have a personal interest in seeing it succeed.) On the one hand CIG has just had delay after delay which leaves me more and more suspicious as the months go by. But on the other hand the parties persecuting CIG in this sordid affair cannot be described as at all unbiased. This whole mess just stinks.

  475. HI,

    I am posting as a member of the Freespace Hard-Light community. As you can imagine given the combination of what SC is, who CR is along with your own past contact with the community. (We still feel you would not be the right person to continue Freespace (even if that was possible at a reasonable price with Interplay holding all the cards now)), that aside the general tone of hard-light is shifting from one of mixed response to one of guarded support for your efforts to find out what is happening with the SC project, a number of our members put funds into the pot and to see the information that is coming out along with the nature of the formal responses is greatly concerning.

    Take care of yourself sir and I hope something can be salvaged from this mess.


  476. Hi Derek,

    As you pointed out in previous posts, you’re taking legal action against CIG.
    But a couple of months have passed since you’ve stated that. And three months have passed since your first post. As you know, some critics point out that you have a reputation of making legal threats but never pursuing them.
    – So other than your word, can you post a copy of somekind of documentation such as a scan of the complaint form that you have filled?
    Don´t get me wrong. CIG also makes their own claims and sends legal threats. In your blog you point out that those threats mean nothing. What about yours?

    From a neutral point of view both sides arguments are valid.
    In your blog you make the following comment : “My estimates, based on cash on hand reports, had pegged them lasting around 90 days.”
    So why don´t post those reports? You posted other info after all?
    I fail to understand why you and by the way, CIG, have no issue sharing the legal threat letters in public, but fail to disclose the actual evidence supporting their arguments.

    I don´t know if one side or the other is right. Perhaps there is some truth in both sides. But given the seriousness of the accusations, people need to back them up with actual evidence.
    Derek, you bring up a good question in your blog post.
    “Where did all this money go?”
    You said it yourself in several posts. 260+ people working across 3 main offices worldwide + outside contractors.
    But instead your answer in this blog post is “in 4 years they have nothing to show”.
    The obvious reply to your comment from CIG is, “doing a good product takes time. “. And I also notice that you keep on mentioning 4 years instead of 3 years like most other people do.
    Well, it may also seem to be a bit unfair to consider the proof of concept phase year one, since they didn´t even start hiring people up until 2013.

    My point here is that what you’ve been mostly sharing an opinion. Like countless others.
    The difference here is that you are absolutely sure your view is the correct one. You have no suspicion. You are certain. Not that different from the SC white knights you mention in several posts.

    And the only thing I am asking you, as someone open and interested in your opinion, is for you to post the evidence that you claim to have that support your claims.

    This has gone too far. Please do us all a favor and prove that you are serious about this. Prove that you have irrefutable evidence of wrongdoing. Post the documents you have proving CIG illegal activities. Post the document you have filled for the lawsuit.

  477. Derek I have been content to let you sit back and spout your bullshit recently simply because your invited to your own opinion. But taking legal action against state citizen is something else entirely. You seem to have this vendetta against CR simply because he is achieving what you have never been able to. Countless times you have wrote this blog posts talking about how star citizen is going to fail and all the time have never once been able to provide hard evidence to this. Each blog post is a egotistical jealous boast about how your game ‘line of defence’ is so much better. Yet after playing it myself, I can promise you the star citizen alpha is in more playable state than your game. Its more enjoyable as well.

    Derek if you are pursing Legal action against CIG you are threatening every single backers investment. We believe in this game. And we wouldn’t have backed the project if we have had any worry. We are not children. We don’t need people like you parading around like some valiant knight pretending to fight our corner when in fact the only thing your doing is putting all of our hard earned money in danger. So do us a favour. Go away, fix your own bloody game. And focus on your own game rather than slander other peoples.

  478. Interesting enough is that I filed for a refund three weeks ago and the only thing I got in response is five emails in which they claim that they are swarmed by support requests and can’t respond in a timely fashion to any of them. So they are just stalling or they are really swarmed, either doesn’t look good.

  479. I am curious the about role of Ben in all this. He is the public and forum face for Roberts.

  480. Derek, do you know anything about the code merging that resulted from a code branch split? Is that one of the things in game dev that is a waste of resources?

    Do you have a ball park estimate of how much it takes to contract Hollywood artists for concept art? Like say, Ryan Church since he was the most prominent in the early days for the $25 Aurora, $225 Constellation, $1250 Idris corvette/frigate.

    Assuming Chris is not a con-man, but simply very arrogant and extremely into presenting an image, would he be crazy enough to enact this strategy: not reduce CIG burn rate substantially, fire older experienced artists to hire new low-pay greenhorns with 4 studios, present more videos to spur more pledges?

    Basically, he will try and maintain an image that CIG is fine, people are working, new videos for more money, and minor-tiny progress with the game tech foundation via remaining engineers. Essentially a suicide run just to preserve an image. Once near failure, simply declare bankruptcy, it’s all over for space sims. Blame Derek, media, haters. Chris and Sandi leave with money at the cost of reputation.

    I ask b/c I am very curious what the CIG exit strategy can be. Defy and your legal teams need to do things slowly, but there needs to be a way for consumers to identify warning signs. Chris may be crazy enough to not let any warning signs through, hence suicide strategy.

    It’s no longer accountability with me. It’s their exit strategy with