Star Citizen – General Discussions

Main Star Citizen – General Discussions

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    Ranger Man

    You certainly have that right.  It’s a “I am the center of the universe” attitude and no common courtesy.


    Stan Porky

    Indeed and we have a growing % of people that think quashing discussion by accusing people of being trolls etc is the way reasonable humans should behave.

    Ranger Man

    Any normal person would realize that post fits neither of those categories.  He just asked a question and wanted what CIG said they would provide.

    However, when you are wanting to stifle anything negative I guess that works.  Dictatorships, cults (religious or otherwise), companies, that don’t want hard questions ask all have rules like that.  Rock the boat, dare to think and you are out.  “Management knows what they are doing, just do what you are told’,  in religion anyone questioning them is a tool of Satan and the attacks prove they, the institution are right.  However, they fail to realize that questions and dissent are valuable and necessary if handled correctly.  The questioners and dissenters point out flaws in the organization and can be valuable in making corrections to help stay in business.  Those who ignore them usually fail as cults or businesses.

    Given these rules have been there since day one it makes me think CIG just wanted sheep to fleece.



    Rule 9 is their STFU and GTFO short-form script for quashing any dissent or questions raised about the project and/or dev practices.

    (a) Posts discussing rumors or misinformation, including the posting of rumors and/or personal opinion as fact, are not allowed.

    (b) Posts designed to rile up or divide the community and spread unrest, including FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) are not allowed.


    So much for THE PLEDGE “So do we get the financial accountability now?” Closed for Rule 9

    $115 million raised according to their not-so-accurate funding page, yet any questions about financial accountability gets squashed.


    Ranger Man

    Not familiar with rule 9 as I haven’t been on the forums since late 2014.

    Reading the thread demonstrates how, well stupid for want of a better word, some people can be.  What a total lack of understanding of the terms, when it was due, and living in the CIG bubble of all is well.  Although this thread did have one or two  others who stated the question needed to be asked so maybe the light is shining through for some!


    Since people keep asking me about this, I have excerpt it from my blogs. There is also a forum thread detailing the surreptitious ToS changes.


    First, read the FTC bulletin, Getting Your Money Back

    If you feel that you have been misled when you backed the Star Citizen project after Oct, 2012, and you want a chance to get your money back, the FTC has setup a special department that deals with crowd-funding complaints. You can fill out this form. Then select “Internet services, online shopping, or computers” then “Online shopping”. You can read more about that over here.

    Cloud Imperium, LLC
    12322 Exposition Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    [email protected]
    Tel: 310-275-1300

    All Robert Space Industries / Cloud Imperium Games offices.

    You can also use this as your summary. Edit as-needed:

    “Cloud Imperium Games has collected in excess of $100 million in crowd-funding money by selling game related items of varying value from $10 all the way up to to $15,000.

    The game was promised to be delivered in Nov of 2014. However, thus far, only about 10% of the content they promised and received money for, have been delivered. Also, they have since vastly increased the scope of the project from what was previously promised; and they have gone on the record admitting to this.

    They also changed the original Terms Of Service which would have required them to provide full refunds and financial accounting for the project if they failed to deliver by the promised Nov 2014 date. This change extended the term from Dec 2015 to May 2016.

    They continue to raise money for the project despite never having met a single promised milestone.

    After previously removing some features promised and which most backers were in favor of when they backed the project, they continue to remove features from the project, just reducing the value of the project. As recently as January 2016, they removed a key module, Star Marine, which was heavily promoted from the start of the project in 2012.

    Like a lot of other customers,  when I requested a refund, they denied it. They claim that a recent 2.0 tech demo which they released in a buggy and incomplete fashion in Dec 2015 (exactly when the original accountability term in the ToS was to be in effect), constitutes a substantial release of the promised game. Given how much is missing from it, that claim is patently false and they are using it as an excuse to actively deny refunds. This despite the fact that they promised two games; Star Citizen and Squadron 42. And as of now, we haven’t received any part of the second game.

    And in a typical fashion, Squadron 42, which was part of the project, has recently been split and now being sold separately to the general public.”

    Note that even if you are not a backer of this project, make no mistake, you have every right to call into question anything you suspect is tantamount to consumer fraud of any kind. That’s why there are numerous resources online for specifically that purpose. And you don’t have to be a backer or whistle-blower to do it. The FTC goes after companies all the time. Here is an entire public listing of their efforts and remedies.

    Direct from the FTC:

    The Commission files a complaint when it has “reason to believe” that the law has been or is being violated and it appears to the Commission that a proceeding is in the public interest. Stipulated orders have the force of law when approved and signed by the District Court judge.

    The Federal Trade Commission works for consumers to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices and to provide information to help spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint in English or Spanish, visit the FTC’s online Complaint Assistant or call 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357). The FTC enters complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to more than 2,000 civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad. The FTC’s website provides free information on a variety of consumer topics.

    Also, the Consumer Legal Remedies Act (CLRA) is a California statute that seeks to protect consumers against unfair and deceptive business practices. It identifies various unlawful practices in the sale or lease of goods or services to a consumer, including:

    1. Misrepresenting the source, certification, origin, or quality of goods and services;
    2. Advertising goods or services with intent not to sell them as advertised;
    3. Representing that a transaction has or involves rights, remedies or obligations that it does not have or involve, or that are prohibited by law;
    4. Representing that the consumer will receive a rebate, discount or other economic benefit, if the earning of the benefit is contingent on an event occurring after the transaction; or
    5. Inserting an unconscionable provision in the contract.
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