Star Citizen – Year Four

Main Star Citizen – Year Four

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  • #1988

    xionicshockwave
    Participant

    I definitely understand your frustration and you are right to be frustrated.  All I am saying is that its a buyer beware thing with crowd funding.  You might get promised something but the whole idea behind crowd funding is to donate to something you believe in….not to buy a product or service.

    CIG promised things by a certain date and they failed to deliver, which is a problem definitely.  However, this doesn’t really mean that the game will never get made, ever.  It just means (like all games) that the official release is delayed.  Just about every big publisher has experienced delays up to two years (sometimes way more).  I’m just a little salty about the horrendous community management and engagement.  If CR can take a serious step back and say “Look guys because we expanded the scope of the PU, we will just have to release the game when its ready”.  Ubisoft recently did this with The Division.  Time and time again they said to the players “we’ll release the game when it’s ready”.  And even they made the mistake of hyping up The Division way too soon or didn’t anticipate the reaction they would get.

    Regarding their solvency….I really doubt they would be moving into a bigger studio and hiring people in pretty much every studio if they were running into money problems so unless you have something concrete outside of your own personal guesswork you won’t convince me of money problems.

    Playing the baby PU has given me a little hope based on the progress I have seen so far.  As long as they get their act together with community engagement and interaction I think they can probably restore some lost confidence by continuing to deliver the game (albeit very slowly).  And hopefully there will be no more Illfonic fuck ups as development continues.

    #1987

    MDrake SC
    Participant

    @ xionicshockwave

    We’re all having fun in some way.

    If you got into SC out of donation or charity, that is your choice and opinion. I bought in, contributed, pledged, preordered for a product, by an advertised timeframe, with additional advertisement for that timeframe… especially since I was there to see the fully funded $23 million mark. I pledged way before the $23, let alone 20 million marks. I have full LTI on everything at their original lower or lowest prices. I’ve been here to watch CIG remind that LTI is ending, ending soon, ends very soon, buy your Freelancer or Constellation and extras for variants to get your LTI… Oh, CIG is bringing back LTI for all new concepts…

    It’s called bait and switch sales tactics. Also, donations don’t get charged VAT, only purchases.

    As for your refund, well, CIG has outright begun denying refunds. The discussion has moved here. Basically, the General Discussion forum. You missed any chance, and it doesn’t sound like you’re a large backer. You don’t have much to lose.

    I really don’t understand how it is “petty” to call out CIG for spending public money. They have not released a product, they have not made any actual profit. If you want to go farther, the FTC already forbids the use of crowdfunded money for stuff not directly related to the project.

    CIG will continue making enough money from white knights and whales to keep going till February, and likely till March 2016. They have secretly fired staff to cut costs.

    #1986

    xionicshockwave
    Participant

    Hey Guys,

    Sorry for the delayed response but I have been Christmas shopping lol.

    @MDrake

    JPEGS – I understand that they haven’t delivered but I mean, its crowdfunding.  I didn’t pay money expecting any ship….I paid money because I had some fond childhood memories of playing wing commander with my Dad and remembering how cool that game was at the time.  So I funded it because I had some background with Chris Roberts and the game and while it says I will get a ship….I never expect anything with crowdfunding…I donated some money to a project I had a genuine belief in, which is really what crowd funding is all about.  That’s why I can’t really understand why so many people are spending large sums of money and then crying later that they don’t have their ship.  Its really a donation.  Now they are obligated to deliver what they promised according to the ToS but I mean the common understanding here is that this is a donation.

    I haven’t made a decision on my refund either way yet…I’m just a little frustrated at how long its taking.

    Furniture – I do tend to think that this is a little petty.  There is a very strong case for airplane/ spaceship furniture because that creates a creative environment for the psyche.  And this game is all about creativity.  When an artist surrounds himself with a project…it spurs creative momentum….I have seen this happen first hand (my old friend is an artist).  Inspiration can strike from any direction.

    The Lawsuit – I am totally not looking for intimate details on the lawsuit, I know how the process works.  I am simply looking for confirmation that a lawsuit has been filed.  That tells me that someone has something…so far I don’t think Derek has filed yet though.  Until that happens…I really don’t have anything solid to go off of to make a judgement either way.

    2.0 – I have been playing baby PU for the last few days and I have to say I am pleasantly surprised.  I was expecting way less given the recent huge delays.  My confidence really wavered with their decision to hand FPS over to Illfonic and watching that whole thing erupt into a mushroom cloud of suck.  But I have to say that I see some real progress on the game with this latest release.  Also, it appears they are switching over to a rapid deployment strategy now that the stream has been unified so that makes me feel a little better as well.  The flip side of that coin is that it does look like they are still two years out from a total and completed PU with the 30-40 discoverable star systems and all.  Although, I don’t really remember how many landing zones will be with each system if any.  But that two year estimate was based on when the dev streams were all separate.

    I think for now I am going to just tread carefully and keep a watchful eye on things.  I definitely don’t think CIG is at risk of bankruptcy or “collapsing” as Derek puts it but I tend to be more patient than most.  I want to see how well they learn from their mistakes.  Plus SQ42 looks like it will be a kick ass game.  It will be interesting to see if they can deliver it in 2016.

    #1948

    lir big
    Participant

    @Kristoffer

    “Regarding this entire inventory lists, I find that rather petty to be honest. Yes, CIG said all money would go to game development, but questioning their choice of lamps as too expensive? Really? How’s that any different than the gargantuan Orc statue outside Blizzard’s HQ in Irvine which has the same purpose – “we have money!”. If you follow the money trail it all comes from the people playing their games and monthly subscribing to them, it’s no different. We give CIG money to make a game the same way we pay Blizzard to play the games they’ve made. Who here gets do decide what can be labeled as going to “game development”? I mean, coders need coffee – so why not bring in the best coffee machine? Designers need light, why not buy the best lamp? It’s just petty so sit on the sidelines looking at every frame from their offices and putting price tags on their inventory and it really should be beneath this entire argument.”

    That kind of argument comes often with the SC defenders while it’s entirely false. CIG is playing with OUR money ,not with some traditional investors’s.
    Blizzard had earn its money by selling games and had never asked from crowd in the first place . I don’t recall Blizzard having a gigantic statue or AAA studios back in the days when they were developing warcraft 1 and were an unkonwn tiny company . CIG is at step 0 while Blizzard, EA, ID, etc etc are at step 100 with hundreds of millions of dollars they can do whatever they want with.  CIG wants to play at step 100 while they can’t afford, and yet they’re paying for high-end studios and stuff.
    So if you are fine with CIG spending YOUR and MY money on unecessary stuff, cool for you, but I’m not fine with it here.

    Again you can’t compare an healthy company like Blizzard that grew up all by itself ,with a crowd-funded company that has no back-up story and that is fragile by its very nature. They can have 10000 orc or jim raynor statues, who cares, they haven’t beg money from the crowd to achieve that.

    Why not bring in the best cofee or lamp ? Maybe because bringing in just the standard cofee or lamp should not affect whatsoever the workers efficiency? Maybe because having standard and comon stuff means >>> more money on dev? And as Mr.Smart said, crowd-funded project has to 100% put the money into development. High-end furnitures are not required within  a game development cursus. Hmm at my job I don’t remember having a 100000$$ cofee machine, the simple standard one is quite nice enough and do some nice cofee.

    #1947

    dsmart
    Keymaster

    @kristof

    still no refund? That actually makes me sad. Because I thought CIG was “owning up” to not living up to everyones expectation, and now that they blew past $100 million I thought they could lower the bar of what’s required to get a refund.

    They are doing it selectively. And more and more people are making it public now. This one is recent.

    Regarding this entire inventory lists, I find that rather petty to be honest. Yes, CIG said all money would go to game development, but questioning their choice of lamps as too expensive? Really? How’s that any different than the gargantuan Orc statue outside Blizzard’s HQ in Irvine which has the same purpose – “we have money!”.

    You realize that’s rubbish, right? This game is 100% crowd-funded and they are legally required to spend the money on the game; regardless of whatever misleading statements they made. Here in the US, the FTC, which is a Federal dept, makes this very – very – clear and specifically to crowd-funded projects. Spending that kind of money on expensive furniture, is not conducive to responsible spending which in turn will lead to the demise of the project before they can deliver it.

    And guess what, the AG of at least two States, and the FTC, have taken action against crowd-funded projects for spending money on things not pertaining to the project.

    And if/when this whole thing collapses, how they spent the money is going to be paramount to what legal action and remedies they face.

    Speaking of Derek’s statements – we’re down to 3 weeks left on the clock of Dereks guaranteed CIG bankruptcy , while CIG are 1 year overdue with “Wing Commander’s spiritual sucessor”.

    I never said anything about them being bankrupt. I said I gave them 90 days before they hit financial troubles. Yes, there is a difference.

    #1946

    dsmart
    Keymaster

    There’s over $10K worth of furniture in that shot. We have been following and posting about that for weeks now. It’s in my Twitter feed.

    As to my guidance about their operations, I had given them 90 days; which would expire in January, 2016.

    Sure they made quite a bit of money in Oct/Nov due to CitizenCon & the anniversary sale. But given their monthly burn rate disclosed by third-parties, all that does is buy them about two months or so. They have to make at least $3m per month to sustain development across four studios.

    So even if they are still around by end of Jan 2016, regardless, they will still need financial investment in order to continue being a going concern.

    And since the whales are all probably tapped out by now, coupled with the state of the mini-PU 2.0 which shows clear evidence that the game, as promised, is still several years away, their next push after December stream/sale this week, is going to be SQ42. But even so, they still have a big problem in that over 700K people are getting that for free.

    Like all things related to analysis, it’s not a perfect, but I still believe that something huge will happen to this project in 2016.

    As to lawsuits, there is a very good reason why I don’t talk about that anymore, following the 11/30 expiration of the ToS in question. And I am not going to comment on that any further.

    As for RSI/CIG, they’re not going to sue anyone as that will open up a massive can of worms; all of which will lead to their financials. They know this very well.

    #1944

    MDrake SC
    Participant

    CIG is giving refunds to folks in the EU. Mainly thanks to the EU consumer protection laws which are stronger than the USA equivalents. I’d rather not talk about my refund situation at this point.

    CIG could have chosen to use more cost effective furniture… but they didn’t. Here is a $400-600 lamp that I’ve seen in CIG streams or shows. Cannot find an easy picture with it, but last time I saw it was in Ben’s office. Here is a $1,900 desk, notice the whole wing of an airplane theme…

    View post on imgur.com

    All of that airplane style furniture… is not cheap. They are nearly all from the overpriced Restoration Hardware catalog. Chris has always cared for style over substance, just look at the HUD for any of the ships. He’ll have expensive stylized furniture for his offices, even when cheaper and just as functional furniture is available. Chris has no respect for backer money. He’ll spend, waste, whatever he feels like to sustain an image of success.

    If Chris had released a lot more content by now… like 5 missions of SQ42, or maybe the Caterpillar or Starfarer ships, or maybe refueling, mining, exploration mechanics… then it would be somewhat OK to have all that expensive stuff. Since the project is way behind, there are constant sales, and a recent series of constant patches to get 2.0 out the door… Things are bad at CIG. Desperate even.

    The next livestream will have Javelins and Idrises for sale. Gotta get 2.0 out to show that enough of a game exists, and encourage folks to spend cash.

    Derek is slowly changing his tune about CIG crashing by January, with the newest number at $11.35 million. I was right that CIG would be able to make enough money per sale, from the whales, to keep going till at least March 2016.

    It’s really a matter of when Derek can reveal details about his lawsuit. While I hope it is in December, I suspect end of January as more likely at the earliest.

    Don’t forget. Chris and Ortwin threatened the Escapist with a lawsuit. Where is that lawsuit? Why did the Escapist just shrug off CIG’s threat? It’s because CIG is in deep trouble, and the Escapist called Ortwin’s legal bluff.

    #1943

    Kristoffer S
    Participant

    @MDrake SC , still no refund? That actually makes me sad. Because I thought CIG was “owning up” to not living up to everyones expectation, and now that they blew past $100 million I thought they could lower the bar of what’s required to get a refund.

    At the same time, you have to remember that no game developer would give you your money back any more easily than CIG! I had to fight for my refund for the new Deus Ex game when they launched their bullshit website to get more preorders. Eventually I got a refund, and they publically admitted “we fucked up!”. What I’m trying to say is getting a refund is by no means a consumer right you have after the two weeks (I think?) “no questions asked”-refund time period is up. If you’re a Kickstarter backer, like myself and Derek was, you may have a case though.

    But I really do hope you get your refund!

    Regarding this entire inventory lists, I find that rather petty to be honest. Yes, CIG said all money would go to game development, but questioning their choice of lamps as too expensive? Really? How’s that any different than the gargantuan Orc statue outside Blizzard’s HQ in Irvine which has the same purpose – “we have money!”. If you follow the money trail it all comes from the people playing their games and monthly subscribing to them, it’s no different. We give CIG money to make a game the same way we pay Blizzard to play the games they’ve made. Who here gets do decide what can be labeled as going to “game development”? I mean, coders need coffee – so why not bring in the best coffee machine? Designers need light, why not buy the best lamp? It’s just petty so sit on the sidelines looking at every frame from their offices and putting price tags on their inventory and it really should be beneath this entire argument.

    I don’t have the figures of what their Santa Monica studio cost in rent, considering the location it should’ve been rather expensive and one can hope that’s why they built a new office. Because in my head I was screaming “wtf you doing? trying to get 2.0 as bug free out as possible AND moving offices!? when I heard about it”. But this is another one of the unknown that might get public of Derek gets his will. Another thing that might get public is Derek’s statement of the Roberts buying a new house and cars with backers money, that’s a really serious accusation and if true might very well ruin all reputation that’s left. And it’d certainly tip me over to ask for a refund – if it’s really true.

    Speaking of Derek’s statements – we’re down to 3 weeks left on the clock of Dereks guaranteed CIG bankruptcy , while CIG are 1 year overdue with “Wing Commander’s spiritual sucessor”.

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