Star Citizen – TOS

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  • #1479
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    UPDATE 16/06/10: And it came to pass that the new June 2016 ToS has been released with the latest 2.4 “patch” going live.

    Here is a handy comparison between the previous Feb 2015 v1.2 and this latest June 2016 version.

    I am working on a blog; but the highlights and implications of this new ToS are:

    1. They can deliver anything (e.g. Minimum Viable Product as I wrote in this blog) they like, and it doesn’t have to resemble anything promised and which you backed. Which means that everything you see here in the stretch goals – and which you backed – is now meaningless. Those concept ships which have yet to be modeled, let alone flight ready? They don’t have to create them
    2. They are under no obligation to deliver anything – like ever
    3. You are not entitled to refunds – for any reason – like ever
    4. They can ban your account – for any reason – delete it, and not refund you
    5. If you buy an account and they find out, they can terminate the account and not refund you. This is essentially to kill the Grey market (Star Citizen trades has now been removed from the Reddit subs), prevent people from buying accounts and/or holding CIG accountable etc
    6. The disparaging CS tagging (1, 2) that occurred just this week, gives rise to how they were seeking to identify backers outside of their website/services, in order to identify their accounts and terminate them – without cause (other than because you were a dissenter)
    7. They no longer owe backers any financial accountability for where the money went. This was one of the key points they used as a carrot during this funding. That, and the ability to do refunds. Both have now been removed.
    8. There is no release date for anything. The 18 month (which was previous 12 months in prior ToS revisions) time frame to deliver following the original Nov 2014 date, has been removed
    9. The new ToS is an agreement with RSI and not CIG as before. Considering that they have a bunch of corporated entities associated with this, the implications of this change are not yet clear to me. UPDATE: After speaking with my attorneys, we view this move as an attempt to shift liability (lawsuits, creditors, investors etc) from CIG, and to the subsidiary (RSI). This is a common tactic used when businesses are setup. In fact, it clearly explains all these entities associated with this project. So when this project collapses – as I am certain that it will, seeing as they can’t deliver it as promised – CIG (which is the parent) will be shielded from the lawsuits and liabilites of RSI. However, according to the law, in cases where fraud is uncovered, there is no such protection.
    10. They say you agree not to sue them – like ever

    In the meantime, if you ever want legal recourse, do NOT download the 2.4 patch and do NOT do ANYTHING on their site and/or services in which you are required to agree to this new ToS. The only way you are able to give expressed consent, is if you download the 2.4 game launcher and press the AGREE button. Visiting the website, sending them emails, opening support tickets etc do not convey consent.

    TO BE CLEAR: This new ToS only applies to i) new backers from this date forward who download the game and agree to the new ToS ii) existing backers who are presented (e.g. in the game launcher) with the new ToS, and which they have to agree to

    Since July 2015, I have been making a lot of noise about the ToS (which they have changed many times to suit their actions) and the fact that RSI/CIG are required to provide refunds and financial accountability to backers for failure to deliver the promised game, 18 months from the expiration Feb 2015 ToS v1.2. Those two clauses triggered on May 31st, 2016. And instead of abiding by them, they decided to create a new ToS which not only removes those clauses, but it also strips even more rights from backers who have thus far given them $115 million. A lot of Shitizens said I was wrong about the ToS interpretation, that I didn’t understand it, blah, blah, blah. Yet, with the latest 2.4 patch disaster hurriedly pushed to live (conveniently ahead of E3 which they recently backed out of attending), they have done precisely as I said and expected that they would.

    This is CIG. There’s always more; and it’s always worse.


    UPDATE 16/05/24: Sources are telling me that a new ToS revision is in the works and will be shoved through either in the upcoming public release of 2.4 or thereafter. If you ever hope to get financial accountability or refunds – two of the key provisions of the current ToS v1.2 – do not agree to it. On June 1st, backers have the legal right to both a refund and financial accountability as promised.

    Make no mistake, several things are in the works, and there are going to be legal ramifications – including the complete decimation of the arbitration clause introduced in ToS 1.1 by people who never agreed to that ToS revision.


    Everyone knows by now that since the shoddy and premature release of Star Citizen (aka Persistent Universe) v2.0 in Dec 2015, they’re now claiming that it is substantial update, so they’re refusing refunds.

    Below are all the different ToS revisions since the start of this project. The Kickstarter ToS would be active from 12-10-18 to 12-11-19 when the campaign started and ended there.

    12-09-13 // Original version from RSI website before they moved the campaign to Kickstarter. No arbitration clause.

    13-08-13 // v1.0, No arbitration clause. 

    13-08-29 // v1.1, Arbitration clause appears in VIII

    15-02-01 // v1.2, Arbitration clause appears in XXII

    NOTE: If you pledged on Kickstarter, then you are subject to their ToS, as well as the RSI ToS which was active after the campaign ended and you had to access their site to create your citizen account.

    According to their  ToS v1.1 of 08/29/13 they said if they failed to deliver within 12 months of Nov 2014 (the original Kickstarter estimated delivery date), they would issue refunds. At the time, this non-delivery period would kick in during Nov 2015.

    IV. Charges & Billing
    RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.

    Since that time, having already i) missed the Nov 2014 delivery date and ii) embarked on the increased scope (aka “vision 2.0”), thus extending the delivery date for the project, they surreptitiously made another changed in ToS v1.2 of 02/01/15 (which remains the current one on their website). The previous section was moved; and now reads:

    VII. Fundraising & Pledges
    RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date communicated to you on the Website.  However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a firm promise and may be extended by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you within eighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.

    And in the current ToS, here is a key section that ties into the above:

    VII. Fundraising & Pledges
    For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items, RSI agrees to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that you shall irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any Pledge that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above.

    The trigger in ToS v1.2 which will require (they won’t do it voluntarily) them to provide refunds and a full accounting, will expire 18 months from when they promised the project to be delivered on Nov 2014. It was set to expire in Nov 2015 as per the previous ToS. Then they extended it from 12 to 18 months. So the new expiration date is May 31, 2016 depending on when you backed the game and agreed to the ToS.

    However, it doesn’t matter when you backed the project; as long as you accessed their services (game, forum) and agreed to the ToS v1.2 revision when presented, you are subject to it. All previous versions would then be null and void. However, if you NEVER accessed their systems, and thus never agreed to ToS v1.2, then you are not only due a refund, but also due a full accounting as per the previous ToS versions.

    When it comes to dates…

    In the case of Kickstarter, it means the Nov 2014 date posted in the campaign.

    In the case of the original 2012 CIG website, it means the same as above.

    In the case of the CIG website, it means the dates such as this

    In this video interview from 2012 around the 8:50 mark, he again states that the game was two years out

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGE0_WSHGHc[/youtube]

    Gary Whitta:

    Chris thanks for joining us and seriously, congratulations on this tremendously successful funding effort, but I guess really now this is just the beginning of the actual difficult part which is building the game, when are we actually gonna see this thing?

    Chris Roberts:

    Ehh, well the… the… the FULL FINAL GAME will be approximately TWO YEARS from now but ahm, one of the advantages and I think the same is true on David’s Elite if… if you BACK IT EARLY, you know, besides being part of the COMMUNITY and the DISCUSSION, ah, and… and having your voice heard and seeing sort of what’s happening in the background so, you know I… we’re going to ah… you know, instead… we don’t have a PUBLISHER but you know what, we’re gonna TREAT OUR BACKERS the same way we would a PUBLISHER so when we get to a MILESTONE we’re gonna give them a SHOW AND TELL and all the STUFF and personally I’d rather do that to them than a publisher because I’m showing it to a hundred thousand people that really care about this and get EXCITED by it and so that’s kinda cool, but the other thing that you’ll be able to do is PLAY, ah, sort of the EARLY BUILDS and the way I’m… the way I’m sort of STRUCTURING is I’m trying to, ah… test out components of this overall bigger UNIVERSE along the way so I don’t just drop everything all at once so in TWELVE MONTHS TIME you’ll be able to play the SINGLE PLAYER… ah I mean sorry, sorry… the MULTIPLAYER DOGFIGHTING ALPHA which won’t be the full PERSISTENT UNIVERSE and it won’t be the single player game, but it WILL BE basically all the ships that you’ve PLEDGED FOR, think of it more like WORLD OF TANKS… and we’re gonna use that to ah… BALANCE THE COMBAT, uhm… you know, FINE TUNE it with the help of the community, and ah… try and see you know, exactly STRESS TEST how many people we can get in an instance at any one time and then, ah, you know… about SIX TO TEN MONTHS after that we’ll do a sort of BETA of the SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN which is SQUADRON 42 and then finally the FULL PERSISTENT UNIVERSE BETA to sort of ah, you know… gonna be about TWENTY MONTHS OR SO AFTER NOW and the LIVE RELEASE SHOULD BE ABOUT TWENTY FOUR MONTHS… but of course you know, there… it… there may be plus or minus a month here… well not minus… plus a month or so, on that… on the bigger thing at the end… but I’m PRETTY CONFIDENT about the DOGFIGHTING ALPHA IN TWELVE MONTHS

    SUMMARY:

    Hangar module <— released Aug 29th, 2013

    Dogfighting (aka Arena Commander) module Dec 2013 <— alpha released June 4, 2014

    Star Marine (full blown FPS module) <— canceled

    Social/Planetside module <— alpha released Aug 30th, 2015

    Persistent Universe Beta by August 2014 <— alpha released Dec 11, 2015 with 1 star system & 1 planet – which you can’t fly to

    Squadron 42 <— no show

    Full Final Game live release by Dec 2014 <— now 18th months past due, and with barely 10% of the promised features implemented

Viewing 32 replies - 33 through 64 (of 91 total)
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    Replies
  • #3732
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    You already know that you shouldn’t download the game launcher in the 2.4 patch update, as that’s the only place where you will agree to the new ToS.

    Someone (married to an attorney), put up a video. You should watch it.

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJK3sfZVIcM&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

    #3731
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Yeah, that’s false. Please don’t do that here. The $20K Espresso machine was bought new. And the Restoration Hardware furniture didn’t get stolen from office space they rented. Are you serious right now?

    #3730
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    Interesting.

    I bet that special door that looks like one in SC cost them something though.  That  doesn’t look like a Carino’s door  that I’ve seen <G>.

     

    #3729
    Hyco Cam
    Hyco Cam
    Participant

    I believe the Hill Country Galleria office in Bee Cave, TX has new tenants.  Around Thanksgiving time there was a listing for 14,000ish sqft of office space in building A, office 250:  http://www.hillcountrygalleriatexas.com/space.php   The space was listed as available either June 1st or July 1st.

    That listing is gone, but these guys still have the space advertised: https://www.thesquarefoot.com/tx/austin/13420-galleria-circle  (Kind of the zillow of commerical space, lagging behind the times a bit.)

    On a bit of a related note.  The Restoration Hardware Aviator series of furniture that folks love to harp about didn’t cost CIG anything, if my memory is correct.  The previous tenant in Galleria space was Fired Up, Inc., the main office for the 170 or so Carino’s Italian restaurants spread across the country.  Carino’s went into Chapter 11 and when they did, more or less moved out of A-250, leaving everything behind.  Some of the stuff left behind included the kegerator and the Restoration Hardware furniture.  When Sandi realized people were watching Wingman’s Hangar and she was missing an opportunity to be a star–that is when Mike Morlan and crew got kicked to the curb, the show moved to LA, along with the set furniture.

    #3728
    Martijn Otto
    Martijn Otto
    Participant

    The list from Derek shows only 2 RSI names, all the others are CIG. So moving everything formally to RSI International UK (and then killing all the others CIG companies) might be their way to move money out of USA / sight. Especially if they create a whole new entity in the UK.

    The above mentioned TOS however, states this:

    “To exercise the right of withdrawal, you must inform us (Roberts Space Industries International Limited, Freedom House, Church Street, Wilmslow, SK9 1AX, United Kingdom, [email protected]) of your decision to withdraw from these Terms of Service by an unequivocal statement (e.g. a letter sent by post, or e-mail) during the Withdrawal Period. You may use the attached model withdrawal form, but it is not obligatory.”

    So RSI UK can be reached via e-mail with an CIG address. So killing all other CIG companies probably won’t hold up in court…

    #3727
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    Got the usual Past 14 days, blah, blah.  Filed it with the others.  I’ve contacted the FTC, my credit card company to see if I can still get a refund, and the firm recommended by Derek so we’ll see .  At this point I’ve written off my Grand Admiral stuff but anything I can do to add to the list of complaints will help.

     

    #3726
    SJ Parkinson
    SJ Parkinson
    Participant

    Took me a while (I went through 70+ websites yesterday looking for stuff), but I finally found it. The UK address is in here. http://pastebin.com/WDQDaNzT

    It’s the EU version of their ToS. I saw the changes from the US address to the UK address. Saw the comparison doc showing the international ToS update change, but I can’t find it. Pretty sure it was linked through Reddit, but all my Google searches take me to the US ToS version compare.

    With their (legal) pull out from Texas, it is conceivable they are transferring operations overseas (or at least minimizing exposure) away from US jurisdiction.

    RSI is a separate legal entity from CIG. CIG collected the kickstarter funds so if they transfer ops over to RSI then pull the plug on CIG, that’s it. All the KS money goes *poof* and you have to sue a dead company without assets. A legal version of three card Monte.

    If they transfer ops to RSI UK, then pull the plug on all US legal entities, the US customers are well and truly screwed unless they want to mount an international lawsuit.

    Purely theoretical, but why have more than a dozen companies globally? Does not make sense.

     

     

     

    #3724
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    I don’t think so. Where did you hear/read this? They already have offices in the UK for the entities located there.

    #3722
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    You can apply for a protest permit from whoever the governing city, county, whatever is, and then publicize it via newspaper and TV stations and social media.  It would call attention but someone would have to organize it, get the permits, then conduct it.  It’s of interest to a small group but if it makes local news it’s one more thing making the issue public.  Then there is social media so footage filmed with camera’s etc. could be spread via social media such as a Facebook page like StarCitizenScam and a website.

    Well I’ve file another complaint with FTC about the TOS, am working with my credit card company to see if I can get refunds, and have contacted Morrison and Lee mentioned by Derek in  one of the posts.

    Funny thing happened.  I went back to my emails from CIG/RSI – I kept all of them dealing with my orders – and when I opened one it had a big read bar across the top with “This message may be a scam.”.  Close as the message is not but the game is.

     

    #3721
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    You are right and that’s one thing I like about the EU.  They have some tough consumer protection laws unlike the US where companies can loot and pillage the consumer.  Unfortunately, unless we get someone willing to do Pro Bono or take a cut (even if it’s zero) of whatever is rewarded the US people are shafted.  Again that’s our legal system in that it favors those with deep pockets who can afford litigation and the expense that goes with it.  Good plan for them to flee the US until they can find another haven with no extradition and weak consumer laws.

    The SC cultists are unbelievable but that’s true of any cult or organization that builds fans like that.  They go down believing it all and it’s always someone else’s fault – Satans, Derek, or someone else.  I never knew Derek had so much power that he, one man, could take down a company with over $100 million <G>.  I think CR has created a more fanatic cult then Jim Jones or any of those we’ve seen.

    I’ve filed new BBB and FTC complaints but all that does it get it on the record and if enough have filed it will get someone’s attention.

     

    #3720
    SJ Parkinson
    SJ Parkinson
    Participant

    EU consumer protections only cover people in the EU.

    It screws any Americans unless they want to sue them in the UK (which they can’t do if they agree to the new ToS). Also takes their corporate presence out of FTC jurisdiction. I suspect the US holds the vast majority of customers and this means CIG / RSI can keep that chunk of money without any blow back.

    The SC Reddit are still in complete denial. I see all sorts of accusations for dsmart alts’s, but suspect many sandi alt’s working their FUD. Same old “Can’t be right, but even if it is, I’m all right with that” BS.

    If the US Feds don’t move soon, the US accounts will be emptied.

    #3719
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    You are right.  Short term it might allow them to  hide a lot and give them time to figure out how to hide the rest.

    It has all the marks of a business whose owners are getting ready to run with the bank account. The employees show up one day to locked doors and an out of business sign.

     

    #3718
    Martijn Otto
    Martijn Otto
    Participant

    Yes, but if they don’t have to report over the time before switching to the UK, they could hide a lot of money from the backers

    #3716
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    That might  be  a mistake.  Much of Europe has much tougher consumer protection laws then the US and as Derek has pointed out there is mandatory financial reports they have to file.

     

    #3715
    SJ Parkinson
    SJ Parkinson
    Participant

    They are also changing their official address to the UK. Out of the jurisdiction of the FTC would be my guess.

    #3713
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    The new ToS has a switch of corporate entities from CIG to RSI; and it is not yet clear what is going on.

    Then yesterday it was discovered that, back in May (the same month that certain conditions in the previous ToS were set to trigger), Cloud Imperium Games LLC, the only entity operating in Texas (where the down-sized Austin live ops team is located), filed a certificate of withdrawal as a Foreign Limited Liability Company * in the State of Texas.

    *Foreign or Out-of-State Entities FAQs

    My foreign entity has decided to close its office in Texas and will no longer be doing business in the state. What do I need to file?

    If the foreign entity will continue to exist in its jurisdiction of organization, but will just cease to transact business in Texas, the entity may withdraw its registration by filing Form 608 (Word 106kb, PDF 74kb). Unless the foreign entity is a nonprofit corporation, the certificate of withdrawal must include a Certificate of Account Status from the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts.

    You can create a temporary login at the site; then search for doc # 669908670003 or filing # 801701457

    As they did file a Form 608, this means that they’re not converting that entity to a Texas corporate entity.

    All of this is curious because that Austin office was rumored to be down-sized and ultimately closed a few months back.

    Now we have learned that Erin Roberts (who heads F42-UK) was just in Austin. Is this just some procedural entity cleanup/consolidation, or could they be in the final stages of closing the studio? If so, where are they going to handle live ops for the game? Certainly not in the LA office, since only a bunch of clowns (no offense to those who aren’t culpable to this shit-show) work out of that vanity “head” office, while the teams doing the gamedev, are mostly located in CIG-Austin, F42-GER and F42-UK.

    More to come as we continue digging into this. Since the new eye-opening ToS conveniently appeared over the weekend, and going into E3, there isn’t much to go on.

    This new ToS, coupled with what I am now hearing from various sources, tells me that we’re now in the End Times. Which is precisely why I had written both Extinction Level Event and Condition Red blogs about the on-going situation.

    This is CIG. There’s always more; and it’s always worse. 

    #3698
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    List of Star Citizen related corporate entities

    1. Cloud Imperium Games Corp, West Hollywood, CA
    2. Cloud Imperium Games LLC, West Hollywood, CA
    3. Cloud Imperium Services, LLC West Hollywood, CA <– The one is interesting. It is found on BBB, but is not in the CA Secretary Of State dB records
    4. Cloud Imperium Games LLC, Santa Monica, CA
    5. Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC, West Hollywood, CA
    6. Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC, Austin, TX
    7. Cloud Imperium Games UK Limited, UK
    8. Foundry 42 Limited, UK
    9. Foundry 42, Germany
    10. Gemini 42 Entertainment LLC, West Hollywood, CA
    11. Gemini 42 Productions LLC, Santa Monica, CA
    12. Roberts Space Industries Corp, West Hollywood, CA
    13. Roberts Space Industries International Limited, UK
    14. Twin Brothers Production Inc, West Hollywood, CA
    15. Twin Bros, Germany
    #3712
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Yeah, it’s one of the points in my OP. We don’t know the significance of this just yet.

    #3710
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    There is a recourse I haven’t heard about yet – as far as I know of. : A sitting protest for accountability at CIG’s headquarters frontdoors.
    I’m asking to the fellow US backers , would it possible to organise such a protest in an official way ; maybe even have some media around ?

    #3705
    Sean Tomlinson
    Sean Tomlinson
    Participant

    I didn’t think they had the fish working yet…

    #3704
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Participant

    If I am understanding this correctly

    -If the ships you pledged for currently exist in the PTU no matter how fucked up or offspec they are, then you get no refund

    -Fuck your right to financial audits
    -Fuck you Gray market
    -We can ban your account for whatever reason(including for activities in non-RSI/CIG websites) and you get no refund
    -If you don’t agree to this new TOS you can’t play the game you could play and pledged for previously.

    The last two seem incredibly anti-consumer and inflammatory.  That is going to piss off people with money to burn on lawyers.  I can’t see how this doesn’t dump gasoline on the fire.  Why does this TOS not only apply to pledges going forward.  They are retconning TOS and denying access unless you agree.  That sounds like extortion.

    #3703
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    Now we’ll get the no refunds because of blah, blah, blah.

    What are the legal implications when you have paid for SC as a backer and then they basically take away what you bought.  For retail it’s like they came and took your CD away.  There must be some legal ramifications to banning and not allowing you to play the game anymore.

     

    #3701
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Don’t worry they perfectly know how much money you have in. The whole stuff when they ask you about is blahblah bullshit.
    In other words, as for now, you could just send an email to CS saying “Former ToS goals not met. Requesting for a refund. have a good day”.Period.

    #3702
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Now this list makes sense . How many dirty shirts you have CR?

    #3696
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    So, if we want to connect and check our account to see what we have we’re screwed because if we accept the terms we can’t resell them on the gray market or ask for a refund.  It’s been so long since I did anything I don’t remember all the models I have.

    #3686
    Martijn Otto
    Martijn Otto
    Participant

    Somebody noticed this too:

    “Do you also find it interesting that the new ToS doesn’t even seem to mention CIG anywhere only “RSI” and “RSI Services”?”

    But backers paid CIG, not RSI. This change has to be part of a another scheme, but I don’t see how yet…

    #3681
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    They can deliver anything they like, and it doesn’t have to resemble anything promised and which you backed. So once they release the MVP, that’s it. Done. Goodbye. Thanks for all the fish.

    #3673
    Martijn Otto
    Martijn Otto
    Participant

    Yeah, the bubble is finally about to burst. The new TOS is a desperate attempt by CIG/RSI to hold on to all the received money without ever having to give it back or account for it. And by signing in on their website you already agreed to the new TOS. Endgame is up folks 🙂

    “YOU AGREE, THEREFORE, THAT YOU WILL NEVER ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM OR SUIT AGAINST RSI, ITS PARENT COMPANY, DIVISIONS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, OR ANY EMPLOYEES OF ANY OF ABOVE, WHICH IS RELATED TO OR BASED ON, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO; (I) A CLAIM THAT YOU “OWN” ANY VIRTUAL GOODS IN THE GAME, (II) A CLAIM FOR THE “VALUE” OF VIRTUAL GOODS IF RSI DELETES THEM (AND/OR TERMINATES YOUR ACCOUNT) WITH A REASONABLE CAUSE AT RSI’S SOLE DISCRETION”

    “However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a firm promise and may be extended by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time.”

    “you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items”

    “You acknowledge and agree that the Game and the pledge items delivered to you may differ in certain aspects from the description of the Game and those pledge items that was available on the Website at the time of your Pledge.”

    #3672
    MDrake SC
    MDrake SC
    Participant

    The desperation has grown substantially.

    Alpha 2.4 is now released. With it, is an updated TOS.

    The new TOS can be compared with the older ones in this Imgur link. Essentially, CIG is trying to make consumers sign all their rights away. It won’t work in the EU or Australia, but the USA backers may not be so lucky.

    Elite Dangerous forums have begun talking about it here.

    Reddit is here. Has the Imgur link.

    And the CIG forums here… before it is locked.

    I am so damn glad I got my Grand Admiral refund. I’m gonna let Derek do a proper analysis of this messy TOS.

    #2322
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster
    #3654
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Star Citizen 40K AUD / $27K backer whale gets refund!

    Reports are coming in that an Australian backer has managed to get a large refund from CIG. No word yet if he got the full amount refunded.

    This is the same backer who, after the Goons found CIG creating disparaging tags for its backers, found a tag in his CS account; amid accusations by Shitizens of doctored images.

    You can read more about that here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1soosem

    So if you are in Australia (and I would guess New Zealand too) and want your money back, GO GET IT!!!

    #3606
    Backer42 Backer42
    Backer42
    Participant

    Dont’ forget “gray market” traders who never downloaded the game and aren’t really interested in video games. For them rsi.JPEG is another Bitcoin.

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