Star Citizen – Extinction Level Event

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  • #2916
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    For some time now, the events which I believe will lead to the catastrophic collapse of the project, and which have accumulated to become the Extinction Level Event, have been in full swing.

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  • #3131
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    WHY I BELIEVE THIS TO BE THE FINAL NAIL IN THE STAR CITIZEN COFFIN.

    None of the arguments people are making are relevant. And White Knights, Shitizens, and Shillizens are doing what they always do: obfuscate, attack, confuse, distort.

    These are what’s relevant; all the points from my latest blog.

    1) The game he originally pitched simply cannot be built once he increased the scope. Period. All the features already cut out, are evidence of this.

    2) The CryEngine which he chose to build the game with, is simply not capable of building it. And yes, even though they now have a custom version of it, that’s more about re-inventing the wheel, than it is about making sure the wheel is still round. The latter being the basis of using a core engine from which a custom engine is derived.

    3) Following my first July 2015 blog in which I made the statements I said as:

    Without disrespect to anyone, I’m just going to say it: it is my opinion that, this game, as has been pitched, will never get made. Ever.

    There isn’t a single publisher or developer on this planet who could build this game as pitched, let alone for anything less than $150 million.

    The original vision which I backed in 2012? Yes, that was totally doable. This new vision? Not a chance.

    The technical scope of this game surpasses GTAV, not to mention the likes of Halo.

    Do you have any idea what those games cost to make and how long they took?

    Do you know how many games which cost $50 million to make took almost five years to release? And they were nowhere in scope as Star Citizen?

    He wrote an entire missive and said this:

    You all know that already; you’ve lived that. You’ve seen Star Citizen evolve and start to come together. You’ve watched our atoms form molecules, our modules form a real, playable game (that you can boot up and play today!). There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!

    Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point.

    As with all his previous statements and promises, you can flush this one down the toilet too. Chris evolved to be more of a salesman, than a game developer/designer. And a patently dishonest one.

    How coincidental is it that – again – shortly after my latest blog dropped, and which I said this:

    “And as I have stated before, Chris being a dreamer, I don’t believe that he set out to scam gamers. However, the only right thing that he can do now is to come clean, explain to the backers what he can and cannot do, what went wrong and how, provide the financials to the backers who are entitled to it, and stop taking money for a project he knows all too well that he simply cannot deliver as originally promised.”

    He does this latest 104TC in which he reveals that the short-term goal is to deliver a MVP.

    So, really what we’re doing with Star Citizen is we’re working on the game, adding features for an incredibly ambitious design – I don’t think there is any other game that is trying to do as much as we’re trying to do.  So, degree of difficulty 11, not 10.  And, we’ll have what we determine is a minimum viable product feature list for what you would call Star Citizen the commercial release which is basically when you say, “Okay, we’ve gotten to this point and we’ve still got plans to add a lot more cool stuff and more content and more functionality and more features…” – Which by the way includes some of the later stretch goals we have because not all of that is going to be for ‘absolutely right here’ on the commercial release.  But we’ll have something that we’ll think, ‘Okay yeah, not everyone can play it but it doesn’t matter – you can load it up, it plays really well, it’s really stable, there’s lots of content, there’s lots of fun things to do, different professions, lots of places to go, we’ve got a really good ecosystem.’  So, when we get to that point that’s when we would say, “Now it’s not alpha, it’s not beta, it’s Star Citizen 1.0.

    That was probably his version of “coming clean”, except that, with his wanton arrogance, he decided to again engage in word play and misdirection; rather than just coming flat out and saying what needs to be said:

    I FUCKED UP. AGAIN. Here is how I’m going to fix it”

    4) He was given $500K, then $2M, then $6M. And during all that time, the statements made were in support of the game he promised.

    At $112M, five years later, there is no pre-alpha, alpha, beta, or RC build. They’re still at a POC tech demo phase. What they have is nothing more than a CryEngine mod. Don’t believe me? Right now, go to Steam and take a look at Angels Fall First. That UE4 game was built by a team of part-time indie devs; and it has more gameplay, and stability than Star Citizen. I dare not even mention Elite Dangerous.

    He was given over 56 times the amount of money he asked for. And wait, there’s more. During every stretch goal, he claimed that the amount raised would make the dream come true.

    At $65M, the stretch goals stopped.

    This would imply that he would have to deliver everything promised – upon release – with $65M.

    He currently has $112M and there is no end in sight, nor a viable product, or a ship date.

    Instead, now we have engineering debt which, with insurmountable technical challenges, can never be paid.

    That aside from the fact that the selling of JPEG ships, ships in hangars etc, amounts to a Ponzi scheme in which the next one pays for the first and then you get to the point where there is no money to pay for the pile up.

    Then the money starts to dry up. The end result is, as I’ve stated in my latest blog, the Extinction Level Event (a word play on a catastrophic collapse) that is now playing out.

    And part of this is also an engineering Ponzi scheme because this statement from that 104TC broadcast, alludes to him needing more than the $112M already given, in order to deliver on what was promised. So after raising $112M, and failing to make good and/or deliver on the promises for which the money was given, he now needs additional money in order to make good on those same promises made. Go ahead and tell me you think this is all OK.

    “But of course the team is going to absolutely continue working on it, just like if you look at World of Warcraft – they continue to add content and features all the time.  The same happens on EVE.  We will update stuff, so we’ll update the graphics, we’ll add new functionality, new content, new systems, coming across additional alien races – all that kind of stuff will be there.  So, we’re going to work on this as long as you guys let us or support us doing it, because the world’s huge.  There’s so many things to do out there.”

    5) A “Minimum Viable Product” essentially means that they could add shops (to sell more stuff, instead of actually adding relevant gameplay features) in the upcoming 2.4 patch, fix a few bugs, and call it a full and final commercial release. Why is this relevant? Well, once they released the shoddy mPU 2.0 back in Dec ’15, precisely as I said (in Oct ’15) they would, they started using that as an excuse to deny refunds, saying that it represents a “substantial portion” of the game promised. More here.

    That’s precisely what they’re now going to do with the first commercial release.

    6) Aside from the nepotism which extracts a large amount of money from the project and gives to family (Chris, Sandi, Erin) and close friends (Ortwin, Derek Senior, Nick Elms, Simon Elms) – all associated with Chris, and some (Elms bros) going all the way back to childhood, there has been lots of evidence of wasting backer money.

    For everyone who backed the dream, it’s simple economics to see that with $20M, a single studio can build a fantastic game. Even with third-party contractors.

    Instead money has been thoroughly wasted across the world with 4 studios and at last count, over 11 contractor (some of which are entire companies!) entities, all bringing the team count to around 300 (!!!!).

    – LA head office which does nothing but make propaganda videos

    – Austin which is now a shell of its former self with a skeleton crew

    – Foundry42-GER which houses ex-CryTek engineers which some backers were saying was the magic bullet to solving all the engineering problems. Back in July 2015, I said that was bullshit. Here we are. The custom game engine is still shit.

    – Foundry42-UK which he built for his brother (and which hosts Erin, Derek, Nick, Simon) like what happened decades ago with Digital Anvil collapse, is headed by Erin who they think (he will fail) is going to redeem his brother by delivering SQ42 – a game that i) very few backers give a shit about ii) has already been pre-sold; and which, in the economics of PC games, will never yield enough additional money to make a dent in finances. Aside from the fact that sources are telling me that it’s already shit.

    7) For the money (currently $112M) given, what gamers are going to end up with as a MVP, is probably a game that could have been built for $20M and in under 4 years. Just as I predicted here.

    And shipping an MVP, with funds (their worldwide estimated burn rate is pegged at around $3M per month) now drying up, invariably increases the risk of the project collapsing and him never delivering on any of the other promises. And that’s precisely how Ponzi schemes collapse.

    8) When I recently stated that Star Citizen (PU) was in maintenance mode, some people just scoffed. That’s precisely what’s happening now as I said here. This plays into the MVP state whereby some bug fixes, features (e.g. shops in 2.4) designed to raise money rather than implement core features, will be implemented. The engine is FUBAR. There is no getting around this. And there is nothing they can do to fix it because right off the bat when Chris increased the scope, he put the game completely out of the engine’s scope.

    Quoting from a Reddit AMA he did back in 2012 shortly after raising $2M on Kickstarter, in which he said:

    “The difference between this and Fable is that it is intended as an online continually updated and developed game, rather than a fixed amount of functionality and content that will go onto a disc. So all the features may not make it for day 1 but we will bringing on as much and as many as we can over the life of the universe.

    There will be some features that will not make it as I’m sure some of my ideas wont work out once we start testing them with real users, and there will be some I haven’t talked about will be in the game that everyone will wonder how we could have ever conceived not having.

    Part of the reason of doing this with community involvement from the start is to make sure the people that will be affected by some early choices have a voice int he process. Perhaps its feature A or feature B at launch. Backers will get a say in which feature is more important to them. Its not a perfect process but I think it will be the bets one for the long run – and as a lot of people have noted just a sub set of some the proposed functionality will be pretty awesome and I’m not going to stop until we get it all (that makes sense from a fun / payable / balancing standpoint)”

    That was before backers gave him $112M to deliver on the dreams. The very nature of stretch goals. Anyone using this statement to mean that he knew all along that everything promised won’t be in the game upon release, is an idiot. Note that this statement was also made BEFORE he significantly increased the scope of the game after the KS and fundraising continued on the RSI website.

    Aside from that, in this FAQ for the game he stated thus:

    The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period.

    That “two year time period“, was to be Nov 2014. A date that came and went. And at that time, they had raised over $65.5M.

    9) The current ToS 1.2 in which they promised to do refunds and provide financial accounting for failure to deliver the product as promised, after being extended by six months from the original promised date of Nov 2014, expires on 05/31/16. They won’t do either of those.

    This should be the biggest sign that they have no intentions of delivering anything as promised, and that all Chris has said since day one, was designed to extract money from gamers, while delivering a fraction of the dreams he promised. Paying $100 for a box you could have bought for $5.

    10) Failure to deliver on what they promised – and for which they got $112M – is 100% illegal according to Federal law. There is absolutely NO argument about this fact. And it has nothing to do with crowdfunding, though that has its own Federal rules and guidelines.

    ==============================================================================

    And the fun part? As per ToS 1.2, anyone looking to sue over this, has to go through arbitration on their own.

    There can be no class action lawsuit arising from this as long as you bought the game, downloaded it, and agreed to that ToS.

    The only legal action to ever come from this, is if either the Feds (FBI or FTC) or States (Attorney General) take action, or some enterprising attorney finds evidence of malfeasance, fraud or similar, and files a standard lawsuit. Then everything goes into discovery, and backers finally figure out what happened to their money.

    Make no mistake, this farce WILL end up in some form of legal action. What form that will take, is what is currently unknown at this time.

    I personally do NOT believe that they will ship any MVP version of Star Citizen (PU), let alone SQ42.

    I personally – without a doubt in my mind – believe that the project, as we knew it, is DEAD. And anyone still giving them money, deserves to lose it. All of it.

    #3139
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Yeah, the thing with MWO is that, even with all the crap that got thrown their way, they managed to deliver a game that people wanted and are playing.

    Star Citizen is never – ever – going to get that far. Like ever.

    #3138
    Hyco Cam
    Hyco Cam
    Participant

    I knew that I had heard minimal viable product before with another fiasco.  How could I forget.  It was like a torch was passed from Russ Bullock to Chris Roberts back in that 2012.  I believe it was the summer of 2012 when PGI made the announcement they would be releasing the minimal viable product for MechWarrior Online.  PGI and MWO got skewered for the announcement.

    Maybe a silver lining.  MWO is still with us, four years later.   Interesting to compare the two games and the reactions from the backers.  The F2P MWO by CIG standards has some very affordable mechs.   Something like $5 to $15 a mech.  Hindsight makes me wonder if PGI shouldn’t have been charging a fortune.  Seems once folks get $500+ into a project they sure don’t want to admit when things are looking bleak.

    #3137
    Starchip
    starchip
    Participant

    I know, this shit show can only get better right?

    #3136
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Don’t worry the counter-strike actors are ready to play. We are now at the ChumpRun point. CIG executives won’t get away with this.

    #3135
    SJ Parkinson
    SJ Parkinson
    Participant

    Just read the CIG forum post for the 10FTC and it’s incredible the amount of people in denial.

    Can we download the CIG forums in their entirety before they disappear. Then five years down the road when these same people are on other boards and voice an authoritive opinion we can post their CIG history and just laugh at them and their ignorance.

    But we’ll have something that we’ll think, ‘Okay yeah, now everyone can play it but it doesn’t matter – you can load it up, it plays really well, it’s really stable, there’s lots of content, there’s lots of fun things to do, different professions, lots of places to go, we’ve got a really good ecosystem.’ So, when we get to that point that’s when we would say, “Now it’s not alpha, it’s not beta, it’s Star Citizen 1.0.

    CR thinks he will go from the pre-alpha tech demo he has today, skip alpha and beta stages then declare this is Star Citizen 1.0 to satisfy the “delivery” of the KS project. Soon to be followed by a corporate bankruptcy with golden parachutes all around for the execs.

    I know it took the Feds 48 years to arrest Bernie Madoff, but seriously this needs someone in authority to investigate this now before the rats scramble off the sinking ship.

     

    #3134
    Flo Ryan
    Pica
    Participant

    Is there a way for the backers to at least get the created content open source in the end?

    That way, from the ashes at least something might be salvaged that might go to space .

    Nobody denies that the ships are beautiful- though flawed by the concept of having fps-physics in the same realm – they should have instantiated a miniserver every time a player leaves a ship.

    Last but not least- its just a game, and games have been played on people since the dawn of time.

    Weather someone sinks his money in a old fashioned “wallstreet” ponzi scheme, or a “spacestreet” ponzi scheme, this is not the end of the world.

    He who gets the dread Pirat Roberts Ship Package posted to Github, shall recive praise 😀

    #3132
    Joe McClintok
    Joe McClintok
    Participant

    Not my best work but still funny

    HERE

    On a side note, I am shocked at all the faggot fanbois who come to your site each day.  If they are such fans of the game, why would they come to your site here?  They display true cultist behavior and come here to find your sources so they can discredit them just like the Scientologists do.  It is actually very scary when you think about how many weak minded people are in the world who are so lonely or without purpose that they will do anything for the person or project that gives them one.

    #3130
    Artur Darda
    MTB-Fritz
    Participant

    My personal standpoint is on Mr.Smarts side not necesseraliy due to the informations he provide but mainly by the reactions and informations CIG provides. I cannot help to admit tho that Mr.Smart certainly helped to highlight CIGs shortcomings and failings.

     

    The whole thing has degenerated into a mud slinging war from both camps making neutral observations increasingly difficult.

     

    As I said….I made up my mind but I can transfer into people who dont know the first thing about this project. For them its very easy to get confused by the sheer MASS of material at hand plus…asking critical questions about almost ANYTHING is met with hostility and belittlement by the SC crowd. CIG must be aware of the toxity of its community as its ever present on the forum AND gets public light as well. While publicity usually is a good thing I d dare to say THIS kind of publicity only helps in turning away newcomers and their money which CIG is very dependant on.

     

    Yet….they do nothing to control the flames and hate. This alone speaks volumes for me.

     

    This latest interview by Chris Roberts only confirms what I m thinking. He is incredibly vague about what he actually means by his statements leaving the definition and clarification to the community which actually does just that (as seen in the thread link) so emptions come up again and split the whole discussion into “us versus them” groups. Something Chris Roberts could ve avoided from the start by being clear and open in his statements. I mean the guy READS from a transcript for gods sake and STILL he fumbles around with lots of pauses and “ah….”s. I wonder if its blank pages he holds in his hands.

    If I would be invested into the game and have considerable resources put into it…..then yes I would also see his statements of confirmation and overlook his funbles.

     

    I am not tho so the blatant “run-around” of hot topics and vagueness of informations are extremely obvious to me and also extremely annoying when all I want is crystal clear informations about the game itself. There is none given. The only thing thats pointed out (by the community I d like to note) is the PU…..which is ANYTHING BUT reassurance that the game is in any state to be released, makes progress or best…..a “good” game convincing me to pay them hard cash.

    Back to Chris Roberts. He sees this. Hell…he even became so involved at several points that he lashed out personally so the argument of “CEOs have better things to do then to handle this minutia” is utter BS to me. He does care what people think. He monitors (or let monitor) foreign forums and sites in order to track down hotspots and follows the public awareness of his game. And STILL he decides to present himself and the game the way he does.

     

    This is “proof” to me that the situation at hand (toxic community, constant redesigns, handling of matters be it refunds or otherwise) is made by DESIGN and them being very CONSCIOUS of what they are doing.

     

    I ve been following SC from the very start and read I dont know how much about the whole thing. I certainly dont consider myself “clueless” even tho I didnt pledge (lol) or play the “game” yet. There certainly are enough videos out there highlighting and investigating enough of it to enable me to make up my mind. Chris Roberts and CIG “lost” me very early on due to their management and speed of progress. The very early excuses like “we do have the money now but we need to build up our own studios first so be patient” sounded exactly like that even back then…..excuses. Its been YEARS since then and “progress” if you can even call it that has been embarassing.

     

    Nowadays I simply follow the whole thing for amusement only. Its hillarious how “blind” people can become to simple logic and how artfully words can be used (by either side) to make an argument.

     

    Above all I see Chris Roberts….HIDING behind his “fans” (really guys…you are a cult….look it up) just surviving and waiting out the crisis. He WILL crash down…..no doubt about it. I m simply worried he ll manage to get a “jail-free” pass eventually and a lil annoyed at how long it takes for some big animal like “Star Citizen” to finally die.

     

    As CEO it would be in his power to direct awareness of his game. After all hes obliged to it….”trasnparent development” and all that you know. Yet he continues to NOT give any definite answers and doesnt present himself like a person who knows what hes doing.  I m saying he knows exactly what hes doing because he knows (probably him and only a couple more people) in what state his game really is. So he plays for time and tries to drag out the inevitable as much as he can.

     

    That day will be EPIC 🙂

     

     

    P.S. if you find any typos or grammatical mistakes you can keep them. English isnt my native language.

    #3129
    Stan Porky
    Stan Porky
    Participant

    They have shut that thread down quick enough…

    #3128
    Stan Porky
    Stan Porky
    Participant

    What they are going to do is extend the ship melting and buyback options so they can shitcan a lot of the professions and simplify the economy – to try and keep backers sweet while they wait the upto ten years for CIG to put those features in with the “stretchgoals”.  So say goodbye (for now) to all those large ships like the Orion, Endeavor etc etc …

     

    This will limit the jpegs they can sell somewhat, but they will no doubt just make the 2-3 man mining, science, transport ships etc the focus of sales for a while until they figure out what else to scam out of people.  That and getting people to buy an Idris that wont be capable of being melted back into the other large profession ships…

     

    And all that AI … say goodbye to that – nothing about “minimal” says I can have 10 AI characters I can control and interchange between…..so there will be nothing to do with multiple ships in game other than park them up as unsweated “assets”.   If they ever allow you to actually sell ships in game to other players the prices will drop off a cliff because people wont want to have so many ships.

     

    #3127
    Hyco Cam
    Hyco Cam
    Participant

    Well the BDSSE has grown to the BDMVSSE.   CIG speak of course.  The Best Damn Space Sim Ever has expanded and grown to a lesser product—the Best Damn Minimally Viable Space Sim Ever!

    A quick check of the forums and you’ll learn it is what CR has been telling backers they will get since 2012.  Nothing has changed….  **puts hands over ears***  **chanting lalalalala***  Everything is going to be peachy!  Spring is here.  Don’t go to the beach.  Don’t make that car payment this month.  Go buy a $340 spaceship.  That coffee service in Santa Monica isn’t going to pay for itself!

    More telling.  The 10 for the Chairman Q&A sessions are history.  Just like the stretch goals, someone must have pointed out to CR that week after week he was talking about all this stuff that was going to be in his game.  Now after two years of Q&A with nothing to show, either CR decided the hole he has dug is deep enough or the finances are such that production needs to be curtailed.

    #3126
    Starchip
    starchip
    Participant

    The final stretch goal = Minimal viable content. “Ship in the hanger” the final feature.

    #3125
    Starchip
    starchip
    Participant

    What is BDSSE? I lost track of those terms.

    #3124
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Someone that wants to kill people with AIDS so it’d be a solution to eradicate it? Someone that wants to kill ‘minorities’, or simply people with different religions ? That wants to rape women and girls ?
    Nazi is more than the name we gave to those monsters back then, nazi is how someone can even come to think this way. No sane person would use these as joke. This is fucking terrifying. Its nazi , everytime you want.

    #3122
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    They fracking can’t say you haven’t said it . As they WILL apologize to the backers, because some of the media have been misleading actors here/ DSwasright.com

    #3120
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    This will soon be the School Case for any future game developer ;
    Also it may not be as hard hitting as we have speculated for crowdfunding because I hope this will help to create :

    1 ) maybe some kind of international customer protection instances related to crowdfunding, or anything that has some authoritiy and that’d be neutral/3rd party.
    2 ) hopping kickstarter will now put safeguards and will be paying attention to the biggest sensible crowdunfed stuff ( yes, they did their job, thats why the 1) for third party control power, cause once official funding campain is over, kicksater has no power whatsoever) .

    I know the issue is each country has its own laws, and regarding any Internet matter, it is really hard to get some worldwide ‘law’ of some kind get applied everywhere, and respected by everyone. I dunno. I just hope crowdfunding won’t get hit as hard as we think it will.

    #3115
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    I my over three decades history, I’ve never seen such a case of sunk cost fallacy and cognitive dissonance rolled up in one neatly tied up packet. It’s uncanny.

    #3114
    Steven Cooper
    letitfail
    Participant

    A minimum viable product feature list.  I love it!

    Should not be too long now for me to make a reasonably accurate timer counting down to the end. Of course if CIG wants to do honest marketing (well, in a relative sense) they would put up a very visible notifications before and during purchasing that not all promised features will be available on ‘full’ commercial release. To be honest I haven’t checked but I hazard the guess there are no such banners. Feel free to rake me over the coals if there are such things. Warning: obscure fine print no one reads does not count and I have doubts about that as well.

    So the community reactions? People are concerned, however if you get your shovel and go digging into the sludge…

    Well the shitizens seem to be operating on the basis that this all means most if not all their treasured features will be included. Still BDSSE! Misses! Chis is just ‘tempering expectations’ and that ‘the truth is being twisted’. The holy good word CAN NEVER be twisted I suppose.  Ah, how amusing it will be when reality catches up to even those hopeless cases and they are shitting themselves blind in rage.

    #3113
    Kristoffer S
    Kristoffer S
    Participant

    There still is no Uppsala Maffia, it’s a fictious name given by the swedish tabloid to 2 criminal people, that does not a maffia make. But in your way of exaggerating facts, it fits perfectly being able to connect CIG with “maffia”. That it’s poor company to keep, absolutely, but still …

    And sure I was speculating. But I said that it was “my conclusion” so made it clear I was speculating. You are speculating and stating it as fact or something you’re 100% sure on. You predicted CIG would start falling early January when you said “I give them two months”. They are still at it.

    #3112
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    [quote quote=3110]Is this part of the “extinction level event”, or am I missing something? The only thing going extinct so far are my brain cells while wading through this “commentary”. [/quote]

    No. The E.L.E is in full swing and in fact, a part of came to light in the latest 104TC

    #3111
    Starchip
    starchip
    Participant

    SOON TM

    #3110
    Josquin Des Prez
    Josquin
    Participant

    Is this part of the “extinction level event”, or am I missing something?  The only thing going extinct so far are my brain cells while wading through this “commentary”.

    #3107
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Absolutely; I mean look at that :
    10 for the chairman, last question.

    Edit : they’re even talking about this on  the forums.

    Fiasco after fiasco it’s been a great week.
    Please CIG MOARRRRRR of this 😀

    #3106
    Starchip
    starchip
    Participant

    “Its going down… its going down hell fast…”

    — random nerd speak

    #3105
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster
    #3103
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    @Kristoffer S

    @stoff75

    The point Derek “lost me” was when he tried to connect CR & CIG to a non existent mafia, that was pure gold (atleast for a Swede)

    Wrong. It’s a fact that the four execs that I named in the Gizmondo farce were connected to it; seeing as they, well, worked for that very same company.

    My one conclusion as to why Derek is still going on even when the points have been made and CIG failed to step up to the plate is he wants to be damn sure there isn’t some wealthy investor out there thinking of sending a few million their way but when doing the due diligence would definitely find his or her way here and back out. That’s the only thing that makes sense at this stage. If so… well played 🙂 The most disappointing thing in the drama isn’t that Derek is necessarily right about the things he’s predicted and written – it’s that CIG is failing to step up to the plate and just prove him wrong. But they can’t which by default gives Derek more creed

    Wrong. Again. I have voiced my reasons over and over again. In fact, I even had my attorneys put those reasons in writing, and sent to CIG so there is a written record of it.

    You spent time writing up that entire missive, pointing the finger at me for speculation, conjecture etc. And what do you end up doing?

    #3098
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    UPDATE3: Then on 16-04-18, this slur (12) ended up in the feed of yet another CS personnel over in the UK. The Tweet was subsequently deleted.

    #3097
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Since the forum where this was posted is sometimes pay-walled, I am going to quote it because it’s perfect.

    note: The “job tourist” mentioned, would be Jared Huckaby aka Lando

    [quote]I’m not saying we were well-behaved netizens back in the day, I’m saying Ben isn’t a creep, we were children when we made those websites, and all our in-joke bullshit should be taken with a grain of salt.[/quote]

    But you fail to make the distinction between the fact while it is immature ramblings, even when taken out of the context in which they were said, they are far from appropriate at any age.

    In Ben’s mind this is like when some celeb posts on twitter about some embarrassing style they wore back in the 80’s. He fully expected people to laugh with him as if he didn’t know better….at age 25. If this was just the spider facts page that would be the case.

    Ben as a person is quite literally a mile wide and an inch deep when it comes to have any substance to his self worth.

    Sure he got the short end of the stick as a kid but then no effort was really made to get him out and about and socialising with people and so he retreated into a safe space that he hasn’t really been able to leave. I also get the feeling that he’s been so wrapped up in cotton wool that he has quite the case of arrested development going on.

    Him dropping out of college only just shows he has trouble doing things without some sort of adult assistance. And this still appears to be the case regarding him having to move states to work on SC.

    He found the WC community as the one thing that accepted him and attached himself to it like some desperate leech and has spent the better part of twenty years obsessively immersing himself to the point where it’s defined the only self worth he’s ever known. As a result he becomes cocky and arrogant slowly pushing out other community leaders with such vitriol, even rejoicing in their deaths, till only he is left to run the ship of fools.

    To make things worse this behaviour gets validated as he’s eventually rewarded for his years of service as being the public face of his idol’s latest creation.

    You’re talking about a person who at that point is verging on borderline shut-in and lives off a menial admin job at a school while writing up news posts that hallucinate potential sequels from nearly forgotten game franchises of the 90’s. Now he gets paid to sit around in cushy digs with free food to live his dream – and the tragic irony is that’s literally killing him.

    On top of that he’s given the controls to a new community from the ground up and sets up ridiculous rules about what can or can’t be posted and mandatory polls dishing out the law at every moment. Plus he’s an individual who has very little solid experience outside his comfort zone to deal with sensitive subjects in a proper way.

    Of course he runs into the dilemma where you have backers who are just as broken and even more so as himself (see WulfKnight).

    People so ostracised from social norms that they try to buy themselves some sort of community acceptance in the thousands of dollars expecting some sort of say in the creation of a dream video game or even buying people ships to try and gain their affections.

    So to save the company coffers they get a light slap on the wrist for posting CP while valid concerns get banished to the wasteland as there’s only so many hours in the day and free doughnuts to eat and sitting around watching all the Star Wars movies on company time.

    Keep in mind this the public face of a company that has been publicly accused by former employees of racist and discriminatory hiring practices, done at a whim because the person hiring subjectively picks and chooses people based on broad assumptions of their personal grooming. Yup, someone wasn’t hired because she was claimed to look like someone who doesn’t shave down there.

    And then you have the self described “job tourist” who claims he ran a baseball team in his teens yet until someone put the clippers to him looked like a hobo they’d let in. Said hobo leaked 34gb of game assets onto a public FTP, including a working build of the game and somehow kept his job.

    TL;DR

    90’s video game obsessed manchild gets wrapped in cotton wool and refuses to grow up and take responsibility for his actions that are now damaging the reputation of the company he works for. Said company too afraid of community reprisals and potential loss of money to fire him.

    #3096
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Participant

    What are we going to buy from them?  They have no real product.  We have already given them money so there is no way for us to “vote with our dollar” in this regard.  Do you think CIG will start doing refunds now if you put you don’t want to back a company with a racist fucktard as it’s public face?

    #3094
    Joe McClintok
    Joe McClintok
    Participant

    I can not believe sites like MMORPG.com are covering this up.  The thread with this information was closed and no reason given.  Heaven forbid they let anything negative about a game company get discussed, it might interfere with their ad money.  I can not believe how far that site has fallen in the last decade.  Redesigning the site and forum to allow more adds and less space for posts wasnt bad enough, then they introduced ads for beauty products and clothes at Target.  Now they close a thread that discusses proven racism of a CIG employee?

    And they call themselves game journalists…  More like “anything to get more ad money writers”.

    #3093
    Cliff Walton
    Cliff Walton
    Participant

    Honestly, given that character and trust go hand-in-hand, I have to say the comments from “a younger Ben” are absolutely repugnant and using the modified “affluenza defense” (I really didn’t know this was poor behavior at the tender ages of 21-25 because my parents didn’t teach me basic human decency) and calling it “sometimes mean humor” is just as repugnant now as it was then.  Really, after all this time the best you can do is call it “mean humor”; humor!, not racist, demeaning commentary I wish I could erase and apologize for, no, it just us kids having fun!

    So, we know there is a character flaw (and it’s a doozy!), what about trust?  If this is what the guy was thinking about vague “other people” he didn’t know, what about the CIG community?  How much truth and honesty can be expected from a “mean-spirited” racist?  How much genuine respect can we really assume he has for people?  He was always glib and sarcastic and now we know there are deeper, darker roots to his commentary.

    Sandi should prove her chops and get this guy out of the CIG lime-light and put him in some dark corner where he can’t besmirch what little trust and confidence that backers have that the people working at CIG are of the highest caliper with the best intentions.

    “mean humor”, so that’s what we’re calling racism these days?  Beam me up Scotty…

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