Star Citizen – General Discussions

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  • #3482
    Hyco Cam
    Hyco Cam
    Participant

    The challenge will be getting backers to click the accept button.  Wonder what CIG has devised.  What could get backers to click?  A free ship?  CIG seems too cheap for that.  Maybe a free outfit?

    But what I really wonder about–how long until CIG starts to work the gambling angle for funding.  There was a write-up/bit of research into what makes people spend money in F2P.  Wish I had saved the link…  Anyhow, the premise was the more you introduce ways to tap into the gambling the higher the spending.  Something like a raffle for an Idris.  Or some kind of card pack–collect so many of a certain card and redeem for a Javelin, etc.  Might be just the hook to get folks to accept the new ToS–click here for you chance to win an Idris…

    On a related note, on other forums I got into a discussion about what kind of scam Star Citizen is.  Someone called it a pyramid scheme.  I corrected them and mentioned it was more a ponzi scheme.  To which I was flagged as that not being accurate.

    Then it occurred to me:  Star Citizen is a Shiponzi scheme.  Feel free to use.  🙂

    #3484
    Kaizer Scythe
    kaizer scythe
    Participant

    Hi Derek, there are some spammer on some of the threads, i think going by the name of http://www.dereksmart.org/forums/users/rohnsonmario/ there are no report button so i post this manually.

    #2811
    Stan Porky
    Stan Porky
    Participant

    It seems plausible that they would give up on SC “for now” and focus on trying to rescue SQ42.  I could see them getting away with it for a while too until something major breaks  x 3-4 (the minimum i think it would take for a large enough section of the SC backers to get the sinking feeling and panic to set in)

    Star Citizen Trades on Reddit may be busier than usual soon…

    Thanks again for the heads up.

     

    #2810
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Participant

    So how many more bugsmasher episodes do I have.  Only video content of theirs I actually like… That and Skelton.  He is hilarious to watch.

    #3488
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Thanks. Once in awhile they slip through. Looks like NoSpamX has taken care of it.

    #2812
    J HOW
    J HOW
    Participant

    Can vouch for the technical issues, some of the things I’ve heard have been terrible from the programming / engineering side. Some I’ve heard has been over the last month or so from people looking for jobs from CIG they applied at my place of work. We are already seeing the negativity at being associated with a failed project as we did not hire any who had applied.

    Trouble is because they failed to fix the underlying platform wide issues they now have a severe technical debt. Their engine is practically kaput as no one knows exactly what does what as the experienced staff have already left and no one has full documentation. I was skeptical of various things I had been told about the UK office (more so some than others), I did not think some were physically possible to break Cryengine in so many “wonderful” ways to cause some of the issues they are seeing. The engine is I understand it is layers and layers of tentacles stacked on top of each other as part of “features” added into the engine but no one has looked at how they all work together – assume it’s a complete mess similar to their server and architecture components. To make matters confusing they refer to certain features as modules of the engine and refer to features-of-features also as modules code side.

    Some things I couldn’t verify or refuse to believe were:

    • Refactor is a keyword within CIG to mean looking at the code, sorry that’s not the word means and having difficulty believing it
    • Parts of the modified engine have no documentation as to how it interacts with the base of the engine or the API to how a client interacts with a server and vice versa
    • Some branches only compile successfully on certain dev machines and they don’t know why
    • Their programmers or engineers usually have to trawl through code to find specific modules which have no standard naming convention
    • There is no internal standard naming convention for features-of-features for modules
    • Some underlying base code has changed so much some previously working assets and previously working code no longer works (had heard this is specifically to do with the FPS module), pretty much the two options were to either maintain two code bases or start again
    • Some days some engineers are disheartened they fail to write any new code and “refactor” old code to maintain a CVS quota (which is apparently an arbitrary number based on commits per-line)

    Taking the above with massive pinches of salt it still looks bad, again they are applying for new jobs for a reason so some of it may likely be true but can’t validate it. I’m wondering to see if it matches what you or someone else has.

    #3759
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Yes. I reported about it around that time. Also, “Cloud Imperium has invested around £15 million in its UK business so far.

    #3760
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Yeah, I have reached out to my AMD contacts to see if anyone knows about it; and if they have the PDF.  Hopefully I will get some answers soon.

    #3489
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    My guess is they will do it the same as before. They will introduce it with either a public patch release (e.g. 2.4) or some other way. New account creation is already the first method for new backers/purchasers. Either way, it’s coming – and I can’t wait to see what they put in it.

    Yes, it is closer to a ponzi scheme than to a pyramid scheme. But Shiponzi works too. 🙂

    #2813
    Josquin Des Prez
    Josquin
    Participant

    If even half of this is true, then we can indeed expect a spectacular implosion.

    #4152
    Times Poster
    Times Poster
    Participant

    Thanks, for the article. It’s always refreshing and eye opening to see how much they lack behind their timeline. Meanwhile I am not even sure they can deliver SQ42…

    There was this recent Bengal Carrier footage shown and the guy talking said something about “coming together”… Seriously? I mean at this point in time this carrier should have been finished. I fully assumed this carrier would be part of SQ42, but now some people are rumoring this carrier was never meant to be in the campaign, because “you’ll have the Idris”. They must be kidding… Afaik, CR mentioned, that you progress in the campaign by starting in a smaller carrier (Idris), and are later shipped to larger carriers (and most likely the Bengal Carrier). What the fuck is this…

    Aside from that, the Bengal Carrier looks the same as in the kickstarter trailer. As if they’re trying to serve the same dish again after 5 years to make people excited again. But what is the difference? Where is the progress? I see none. This is getting ridiculous…

     

    Btw. Derek, in my browser (Firefox 45), this giant topic General Discussions is a pain to load. It stutters for at least 2 minutes, loading all these images and videos. Maybe you should add a new section “General Discussions 2” or so… or maybe it’s just the browser which sucks.

     

     

     

    #4153
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Hello,

    If you’re reffering to the last ATV  and about the Bengal KS vanity ship, my bet is that they’ve basically shown the making of the next s42 Gamescon trailer-cinematic . Wich is what they’ve all been doing for 4.5 years : making shiny bright cinematics for conventions and luring people saying is ingame engine footage. Oh and mocap holidays for CR and SG of course.
    And wtf was this ‘shipshape’ promotional segment with Nick Elms.

    #4159
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Hmmmmm . For real, it’s now plain cult. It is not like we didn’t know about the odd managment method SG and CR use though. Remember Sandi saying something like ” Chris is the only one that can make/think this vision, without him there’s no game’ . He’s the only one, only him, him only can do. and she’s been the best at seeing that since we know well when. Odd.
    What’s her background? Everything she fracking say (aside from beeing totally stupid 99% of the time) tend to lead to think about scientology, ACN, Herbalife, or any other cult/scheme buisness.
    She had to learn all that somewhere.

    #4160
    Joe McClintok
    Joe McClintok
    Participant

    Derek,
    I asked this question a week ago but I think you missed it.  With 300 employees averaging $75,000 each (that would be CIG’s cost not the actual employee annual salary which I expect to be lower since the bulk of their staff is in Europe), that brings them to 22.5 million a year just in payroll.  Now add in the cost of buildings, equipment, furniture, the MoCap studio and actors, contractors and the salary of the top guys and them blowing through 30 million a year like you said is quite reasonable.

    This brings me to my question…  What will they do to bring in money next?  How do you think they will try and increase revenue?  Ship sales are down, whales are starting to tap out and even if they launch SQ42 at the beginning of next year (which is most likely not going to happen), the majority of people who would be interested have already purchased it.  If they actually do launch the regular game which we know won’t happen, again, the majority of people have already purchased it.

    My opinion is that something big is coming beginning of next year revenue wise.  Either they add something to the PU and start charging a monthly sub fee or they release SQ42 and require people to purchase ships or mission packs.  They cannot continue doing what they are doing, they must be burning through more than they are getting and even if they launch an actual product, they already cashed in on the majority of the sales.

    Something has to change in their revenue model for this mess to continue and with Chris basking in the spotlight, I know he will pull every trick in the book to stay there.

    #4157
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Hotsauce ShoTYME
    Participant

    Wow just wow.  It’s not just the cult thats toxic but the entire damn company is toxic to the industry. Holy fuck.

    #4158
    MDrake SC
    MDrake SC
    Participant

    @ J HOW

    Dang. Someone at CIG might be scared of you. Very low key, yet in the industry and area. Simply keeping minor tabs on things.

    #4155
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Yeah, the forum plugin for WordPress is horrid. That’s the issue. I am planning on setting all the forums to read-only this weekend and installing proper forum software.

    #4156
    J HOW
    J HOW
    Participant

    After a lot of silence on the part of CIG once again there has been *something* poking the hornets nest in Manchester. Picked this up from a game devs meet and greet,

    This I have been unable to verify despite my best efforts:

    Some workers are currently tight lipped in regard to ongoing work of the project which is obvious but for a different reason. They are trying to discover leaks which are apparently unrelated to Derek Smart rather information leaking from the studio on their ongoing work. Not too sure what they mean by unrelated, this apparently ties in to their customer service team. It has been speculated their management team is merely suffering from paranoia and likely jumping at ghosts for whatever reason. From the sounds of it they are trying to prevent future leaks rather than deal with information already out there.

    This I can confirm as somewhat genuine, although I am still skeptical:

    Some developers have been asked informally not to attend game developer events outside of CIG or to have contact to other people in the industry, other game studios without approval from management. This seems to tie to the point above from a different source which offers some small amount credibility. To me it sounds more like a cult than a UK company.

    These are genuine after speaking to third parties at a few of the meet and greets,  and another company:

    They are attempting recruitment drives again in Manchester, sadly they have managed to piss off some recruitment agencies in the process over constantly changing requirements, long delays at responding to possible hires, odd informal background checks on new hires to verify they are who they say they are, odd reference requirements for positions which are driving one recruitment agency half mad. Along with arbitrary requirements on possible hires which change last minute, sometimes it takes CIG 2 weeks to respond.

    Some other local companies are upset and unhappy that CIG got a large part of the funding pie from the local council. It seems they stumped up more money than they should have from the local government which meant other companies did not get an equal or entirely their share. This is in reference to CIG creating UK jobs and business which some other local game development studios are understandably upset over.

    #4161
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    They have already started doing it.

    The regular ship sales, the push for subs as I mentioned in my latest blog, as well as the focus on shopping which is going to end up with people having to buy UEC to spend. They have absolutely no other ways of raising money to finish this game.

    SQ42 isn’t going to do anything because the majority of those who want it, already entitled to it. And with the likes of COD:IW, MA:E etc all coming out, there is no way in hell they are going to make enough money from SQ42.

    Mass layoffs are coming. That’s a foregone conclusion.

    #4162
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    Yeah – none of that surprises me in the least. And there’s a lot more than that going on in the background.

    ps: If you are not on my Discord channel, please get in touch with me there using this invite (0sasVA7SRFEX9raG) code.

    #4042
    Backer42 Backer42
    Backer42
    Participant

    I just received an advisory/post deletion on Frontier forums for quoting PM harassment by some SC nutcase (without doxing anybody, because it doesn’t matter). They think it’s against their forum rules. I think forum rules made protect harassers are wrong and need to be changed. Harassment needs to be exposed. Yes, I know public discussion of forum moderation is against the rules either, but I don’t think this applies here.

    BTW: I got called a “filthy goon”. What is this?

    #4043
    SJ Parkinson
    SJ Parkinson
    Participant

    As time goes by, “filthy goon” will become a badge of honour you’ll be proud to wear.

    #4040
    SJ Parkinson
    SJ Parkinson
    Participant

    Woman sues Microsoft in California in small claims court for Win10 fiasco and wins 10K.

    Know any disgruntled SC backers looking to get their money back in that state? Looks like a viable outlet as no lawyers are allowed.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/27/woman_microsoft_windows_10_upgrades/

    #4041
    Dsmart
    dsmart
    Keymaster

    In case you guys hadn’t heard, Darian Vorlick has left. This guy did 8yrs at Blizzard, left and went and did 2 yrs at CIG.

    ps. Everything’s fine though; nothing to be concerned about. At all.

     

     

    #4038
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    @Martinj Otto

    Indeed, that’s what we’ve been asking to ourselves for sometimes too. you raised a great point wich is part of the few unanswered mysteries :

    _ Are there really 300+ employees?
    _ Are there really like 1 million backers ?
    _ Have people really gave 116 millions+$ to CR,?
    _  Is the funding chart real ? at least we know that one to be fake for sure, because it went down once and back online numbers had changed lol.
    As for the formers, we can’t prove but we believe them to be fake.

    okay let’s assume they really have 260 people working there, this is my opinion :

    _ A good share at dev team : ships design/f42, crytech team, whatever myriad of specific tech team CR had thought of.
    _ A  good share on the mocap stuff  seeing how important it is to CR eyes
    _ A share on promotional stuff
    _ A share on an oversized community team : they couldn’t play the censorship card and control everything on their website + monitoring backers activities elswhere without a good share.
    _ 15 corporates companies in wich the eventual employees would work in.

    Hmmm so yeah, either wtf have they been doing, or they are not 300 working there, and that would explain a lot.

    #4039
    Martijn Otto
    Martijn Otto
    Participant

    A lot of money will have been used for all the offices and (computer) equipment and of course, there is overhead like Finance, Payroll, HRM, IT, Secretaries and Assistents et cetera. Not to mention the big wages for the executive producers and managers, and last but not least, Marketing & Sales 🙂

    I’d really, really, reallyreally (really? yes reallyreally) would like to see a financial and a staff breakdown. And then see how much actually has been spend on developing the game. Probably 10% of the total “budget” with maybe 40 actual developers or so. Maybe when CIG/RSI finally collapses we get a look…

    #4036
    Zyll Goliath
    Zyll Goliath
    Participant

    “GOONS”strikes back on “The Goon TV”…enjoy have a fun&PLS. SHARE!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibXlipy1tPU

    #4037
    Lir Big
    lir big
    Participant

    Very nice ! always good when you guys take the time to dig what CR has said then compare. BatGirl could use your video as she was wondering why us , fracking trolls, are trolling Startrollizen.

    #4034
    Joe McClintok
    Joe McClintok
    Participant

    Derek,

    Even assuming they have cut costs to average only 25 million a year in costs, it still brings them to having less than 30 million left (assuming they continue to be funded at current levels) at the end of this year.  How long do you think it will be until Chris announces that the current build is officially a MVP and starts charging a monthly sub fee?

    They have to do something soon to bring in more money.  Even launching SQ42 wont bring in much since most people have already pre-purchased it.  We are years away from them ever being able to launch the game with even 50% of the promised features so they need to do something.

    I feel that something crazy will happen in the start of first quarter 2017 like them charging a sub fee to access the PU.  Ship sales are not cutting it and them introducing more unique items like the space bike only add more time to the games development.  What do you see happening to bring in more revenue, assuming they actually continue to operate?

    #4035
    Joe McClintok
    Joe McClintok
    Participant

    Had some free time and threw up another video.

    https://youtu.be/5GsZ0Vqedg8

    #4032
    Martijn Otto
    Martijn Otto
    Participant

    Can’t help but wondering, what have all those (300?) developers been doing then these last couple of years?

    #4033
    Ranger Man
    Ranger Man
    Participant

    Originally the 300+ probably started on developing WC New but then got bounced around between whatever CR’s hottest thing de jour was never getting to finish anything.  Then as time went on and deadlines got missed the panic level got higher in the Ivory Tower office and the developers were chasing multiple conflicting directives.  That is those who were good developers.  It appears many are not very good or new to it and they have been spending all their time wondering why people don’t have heads and drop through walls, etc. with no clue on how to fix it. Of course at some point many of the good ones are gone.  And as time went on, say late 2013 or early 2014 developers probably got replaced by graphic artists who could create jpegs to sell <G>.

    Things run in cycles in that x style of game gets very popular then eventually y takes over, then z, then back to x.  I believe SC was first pitched about the time the space sim cycle was starting to ramp up again.  I know I’d been messing with my old WC and Star Wars stuff via Steam or DOSBox from my CDs and when SC was pitched as a WC taking advantage of technology today that was exciting.  I think the other companies like Activision knew that was what people were wanting so they started planning on COD:IW around then, too (say 2011-2012) as space would be the next logical place for COD to go to.  Mass Effect has always been in space.  So here we are three years later and COD:IW is ready for release and Mass Effect: Andromeda to follow shortly with No Man’s Sky.  I bet their alpha’s weren’t as bad as SC current release <G>.

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