Author Topic: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.  (Read 1851828 times)

Serendipity

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1380 on: September 26, 2017, 01:55:23 AM »

You are an alt.

Wrong. Please try again. Then continue to assess what you believe to be true and realise you do not know shit.

Thank you.

Orgetorix

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1381 on: September 26, 2017, 02:01:19 AM »
Is it me or do people have weird views of what they think PMs do vs what we actually do. PM for a large mechanical contractor here, and not at all is our primary job the "well being" of our workers, yeah its a small part sure but our job is to push the project forward, enable our foreman, journeymen and apprentices to work with little to no hindrence.

That is exactly what I mean by a PM's primary job is the "well being" of the workers. Mainly a good Project Manager's job boils down to getting upper management off the back of the guys in the trenches, so that they can get the shit that needs to be done, up and running. Shielding them from the micromanaging bullshit coming from a dingle berry that has a hard time just dressing himself in the morning, let alone actually knowing what shit needs to be done, and how to get it done right, eg... Croberts.

Would you agree with that?

Quote
To take problems that come up and provide fast work arounds and coordinate with other PMs on how to best meet benchmarks. Also we are 100% responsible for financials, we have a bid, then we are trying to make 10% on what we bid as profit, we don't crunch every number but where stuff is getting charged and the overall financials are on us, accounting just writes the checks, if the project doesn't make money it's on us period no one else. Also if the owner (backers in sc case) ask for something extra, we coordinate with the actual workers then price it up for the owner and then do the additional work, we don't just accept that something is added when it isn't in our scope/contract, we acknowledge it, price it, receive the go ahead and do it. There is no guesswork when you are dealing with millions of dollars, if something is late/not on time, you need to figure out why, backcharge that motherfucker for the time they are holding up your men, which can be thousands.


Agreed, but would you post a vid on youtube throwing this all back on your foreman, journeymen and apprentices? As CIG/Erin just did with Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Choice & Consequences, the Mission System?
 
Quote
We are also intimately familiar with every single aspect, we know who is behind, who is ahead, who is pushing what and we should be because one contractor can hold everyone on the job up, costing thousands sometimes millions if its bad enough. Claiming that a PM in any sense of the word can be void of the basic knowledge needed to run the job is ludicrous, because then you aren't the PM at all.

I stand by what I stated, no one person can hold every aspect of a large project in their mind at one time. A good PM will certainly be intimately familiar with all the team's progress, on a larger scale.

Now my question to you as a PM for a large mechanical contractor is? Can you tell me the exact torque that was applied to every fastener that your team installed in the last week? Not what the specified torque was by the prints, but what every single one of your men applied to that hex nut, hex bolt, pan-head, fillister head, socket cap, button head, ect... What was the grade, diameter, and thread pitch of all of those fasteners, and was every single one within tolerance?

If you can't come up with that exact information, RIGHT NOW, then you certainly aren't intimately familiar with "every single aspect" of the project. That's absolute bullshit and you know it.

I just installed a servo motor on a machine as part of a R/D retrofitting project for my job, with another lead tech, to be rolled out company wide upon completion. When I explained what we had done to my supervisor, he got a glazed look in his eyes, while nodding in agreement.

I know full well that he doesn't have any "intimate knowledge" of what we did, and the hacks that we used to make it work. We hacked it to make it work, because that machine has to be running, due to scheduling, and we really didn't want to hear about it from him. All the while I have to work around him, by directly communicating to the R/D Project Manager at Corporate, because I can't count on him to do his job, eg... be a buffer, because he has no clue.

How do you think a situation like this affects me? He's been in the company for 22 years, but hasn't kept up with the times, and has literally no clue when it comes to the more modern equipment on the floor.       

Quote
IMO CR more represent an owner, while at the same time he has no PM except himself, so when he makes a change or demands something there is no actual person there to check him and say ok it's this much, it's this much time. He also plays owner in rounding blame down without probably fully understanding which parts aren't rolling correctly, and if the project fails financially it's not on anyone but him, he's playing both the supplier of cash and the handler which makes no goddamn sense.

What he needs to do is listen to and enable his leads to do their fucking jobs, do I know anything near as much as a 20 year foreman, fuck no, but I know the big picture, and if that guy gives me an estimate or tells me what he needs to get the job done on time and how we want to i accommodate him because he is there, on the ground doing the work with more intimate knowledge. I am over the top coordinating 50 or more things across many contractors including the GC so you learn to trust your leads, you're not there to do the work you are there to enable it to be done and coordinate everything together while meeting every benchmark.

I'll reiterate again, "Command structure is implemented for a reason. It creates levels of buffering. No single person, at this level of development, can keep the entirety of the project in focus, all the time."


And again, are the "benchmarks" you're trying to meet, are they really that important? Do those "benchmarks" really portray the effectiveness of your team?

Quote
PM isn't just checking your dudes making sure they feel hunky dory, if that's what people actually think it explains why so many people claim PM experience on resumes and have no goddamn clue how to actually run something. Just because you've seen someone do it and it looks easy, doesn't mean it was done correctly or it wasn't just the fact that the labor was some on point mofos who made you look good.

Your statement, right here, just shows why you need to reevaluate; how, and why, you're doing what you do.

The whole point of your job is all about getting those "on point mofos" to make you look good.

That should be the perfected end result as a PM. You keep those "mofos" doing what they need to be doing, and happy as a lark doing it, and you as a PM have done your job.

This is precisely why I added that summation to my post about the organic farmer. He's not focusing on the cow, and chickens. All he's really caring about is growing the grass that they all eat. When he grows right grass, then he's done his main job. The cows and chickens will take care of themselves when he's provided the right environment for them to excel.

Upper management will give you mad bonuses for achieving that kind of end result.

Quote
Trust me coordinating millions of dollars worth of work is not easy, specially if it's a hospital, the QC QA that goes into it is mind boggling and you lean heavily on those more intimate with working details,

Thank you for reinforcing my point on proper command structure. In a team centric environment you need to be able to lean on your coworkers, and know that they have your back.

Quote
but I know how quick it is to burn through money on labor, and CIG has 350+ employees. I mean 90% of a job is labor, and thats on multi million dollar hospitals with expensive ass equipment, no way in hell I can see 160 mill going this long with that many people working for him. It is though, so they are getting money from somewhere else

We won't know what the true state of the books is until the end. I would tend to agree with you here that CIG has well surpassed the $250 million+ mark at this point, and has literally dumped that money down a hole.

In summation, here's a couple things you might want to read. In no way am I saying that you're a bad PM. Far from it considering what you've said in your post, I would be happy to be on your team. You do "get it" in many ways.

I just like to look at it, that when you stop learning, you're dead. There is always room for everyone to improve. If you come at a problem, or life, with a state of mind that you know it all, you'll never succeed...

The Cost of Bad Project Management
A Guide to the Project Management Body of Knowledge (PMBOK® Guide)–Fifth Edition
The No Asshole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't


Moeis

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1382 on: September 26, 2017, 02:08:23 AM »

You are an alt.

Wrong. Please try again. Then continue to assess what you believe to be true and realise you do not know shit.

Thank you.

Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol.

Serendipity

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1383 on: September 26, 2017, 02:17:32 AM »

You are an alt.

Wrong. Please try again. Then continue to assess what you believe to be true and realise you do not know shit.

Thank you.

Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol.

I'm clearly multiboxing...

Orgetorix

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1384 on: September 26, 2017, 02:20:05 AM »

You are an alt.

Wrong. Please try again. Then continue to assess what you believe to be true and realise you do not know shit.

Thank you.

Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol.

It doesn't really matter, you're both cut from the same cloth, and both accounts need a ban.

Personally I've given you two study assignments that you have refused to complete.

If you or Serenstupidty were here to actually be engaged in a lively discussion, than you would. Having said that, all you can resort to is muddling the waters of any thread you post on because you have nothing more pertinent to say than "Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol."

Derek, other admin/mod, et al... Please ban these accounts, no further purpose is served by allowing them to continue to post utter crap in this or any other thread on this forum.

Moeis

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1385 on: September 26, 2017, 02:24:39 AM »

You are an alt.

Wrong. Please try again. Then continue to assess what you believe to be true and realise you do not know shit.

Thank you.

Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol.

I'm clearly multiboxing...

Haha. Haven't heard that term used since I stopped playing WoW in 2007.

Orgetorix

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1386 on: September 26, 2017, 02:29:38 AM »
Haha. Haven't heard that term used since I stopped playing WoW in 2007.

 :lesnick: :sandance: :garypop:HAHA. Circle Jerk...  :yarg::lesnick: :sandance:

 :derekpop:

Moeis

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1387 on: September 26, 2017, 02:31:03 AM »

You are an alt.

Wrong. Please try again. Then continue to assess what you believe to be true and realise you do not know shit.

Thank you.

Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol.

It doesn't really matter, you're both cut from the same cloth, and both accounts need a ban.

Personally I've given you two study assignments that you have refused to complete.

If you or Serenstupidty were here to actually be engaged in a lively discussion, than you would. Having said that, all you can resort to is muddling the waters of any thread you post on because you have nothing more pertinent to say than "Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol."

Derek, other admin/mod, et al... Please ban these accounts, no further purpose is served by allowing them to continue to post utter crap in this or any other thread on this forum.

That quote you bolded is no different than someone making attacks on me by saying they made an analysis using software and then saying it also came out as feminine. Then 2 other posts where one person stated they determined the same thing about feminine, and another post laughing saying I would get triggered when I saw it.

Also since I got a warning and took the time to find out what I said that was considered as an attack so I can make sure to not do it again, only to be attacked on a regular basis on these forums.  I did everything in my power to make I didn't say something that can be considered as an attack, only to be attacked myself.

I was having a conversation about ascendent pictures stuff that only resulted with being accused of being someone else.  And then your post in which you contributed nothing either.
Ban us and all it shows us hypocrisy.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 02:34:54 AM by Moeis »

Serendipity

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1388 on: September 26, 2017, 02:53:05 AM »

You are an alt.

Wrong. Please try again. Then continue to assess what you believe to be true and realise you do not know shit.

Thank you.

Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol.

It doesn't really matter, you're both cut from the same cloth, and both accounts need a ban.

Personally I've given you two study assignments that you have refused to complete.

If you or Serenstupidty were here to actually be engaged in a lively discussion, than you would. Having said that, all you can resort to is muddling the waters of any thread you post on because you have nothing more pertinent to say than "Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol."

Derek, other admin/mod, et al... Please ban these accounts, no further purpose is served by allowing them to continue to post utter crap in this or any other thread on this forum.

Stop being mean to us you nasty person you. How about we get back to discussing this ELE that appears to not be happening in this ELE thread shall we? Discussing us and whether we should be banned or not isn't really on topic.

I realize an echo chamber is a safe and comforting place online when so many others don't share your warped perspective on reality but it's healthy to challenge yourself now and then, I recommend not banning us and enjoying the lols we bring with our blind stupidity. Quick, point and laugh at the idiots.

Orgetorix

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1389 on: September 26, 2017, 02:53:29 AM »
That quote you bolded is no different than someone making attacks on me by saying they made an analysis using software and then saying it also came out as feminine. Then 2 other posts where one person stated they determined the same thing about feminine, and another post laughing saying I would get triggered when I saw it.

Also since I got a warning and took the time to find out what I said that was considered as an attack so I can make sure to not do it again, only to be attacked on a regular basis on these forums.  I did everything in my power to make I didn't say something that can be considered as an attack, only to be attacked myself.

I was having a conversation about ascendent pictures stuff that only resulted with being accused of being someone else.  And then your post in which you contributed nothing either.
Ban us and all it shows us hypocrisy.

Where is my hypocrisy? I've engaged with you at length through PM's. You've not responded to my post's and only superficially responded to my PM's. I gave to you two assignments on subjects to review and you declined to do so.

I responded to Serenstupidty on multiple occasions, and my only response from him/she/it, was an outright deflection, and twisting of what they had originally stated.

So no, there is no hypocrisy here. The Admins/Mods have been more then fair in dealing with both of you. You both have done nothing to further any discussion in this forum in any meaningful way.

If you want to truly add to the discussion at hand, then honor my initial requests.

"Your lesson assignment for tonight is to read up on Ponzi schemes and cross correlate them to the funding model of Star Citizen. I won't require any work to be turned in, because always remember, your most valuable education is that which you learn through your own self guided curriculum.
"

"Lets take this on a factual basis. You provide links and a full explanation of where Derek Smart has been totally confirmed wrong, based, mind you, on just the facts. Once you have submitted said references, eg... links. I'll respond and show you where Chris Roberts has outright lied, and just to be fair about it,  I'll only confine my references to his lies from the period of GamesCon '16 - GamesCon '17."


Moeis

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1390 on: September 26, 2017, 03:06:04 AM »
That quote you bolded is no different than someone making attacks on me by saying they made an analysis using software and then saying it also came out as feminine. Then 2 other posts where one person stated they determined the same thing about feminine, and another post laughing saying I would get triggered when I saw it.

Also since I got a warning and took the time to find out what I said that was considered as an attack so I can make sure to not do it again, only to be attacked on a regular basis on these forums.  I did everything in my power to make I didn't say something that can be considered as an attack, only to be attacked myself.

I was having a conversation about ascendent pictures stuff that only resulted with being accused of being someone else.  And then your post in which you contributed nothing either.
Ban us and all it shows us hypocrisy.

Where is my hypocrisy? I've engaged with you at length through PM's. You've not responded to my post's and only superficially responded to my PM's. I gave to you two assignments on subjects to review and you declined to do so.

I responded to Serenstupidty on multiple occasions, and my only response from him/she/it, was an outright deflection, and twisting of what they had originally stated.

So no, there is no hypocrisy here. The Admins/Mods have been more then fair in dealing with both of you. You both have done nothing to further any discussion in this forum in any meaningful way.

If you want to truly add to the discussion at hand, then honor my initial requests.

"Your lesson assignment for tonight is to read up on Ponzi schemes and cross correlate them to the funding model of Star Citizen. I won't require any work to be turned in, because always remember, your most valuable education is that which you learn through your own self guided curriculum.
"

"Lets take this on a factual basis. You provide links and a full explanation of where Derek Smart has been totally confirmed wrong, based, mind you, on just the facts. Once you have submitted said references, eg... links. I'll respond and show you where Chris Roberts has outright lied, and just to be fair about it,  I'll only confine my references to his lies from the period of GamesCon '16 - GamesCon '17."


The hypocrisy would be banning us for posts like I mentioned in my post.

Also I am not going to get into a conversation that I believe could lead into people thinking I am attacking.  Also I am not going to dive into old crap from the years past that I have no doubt you guys have already heard before.  Instead I will comment on new stuff when I feel like it, instead of moving backwards.

And really the people showing to be so obtuse are some of you people here.  I say something and sometimes you guys go into a reply to it like I said something else.  For example, when I said that having a new TOS coming out is not breaking news, and you guys start arguing with me like I was trying to make an argument about the contents of the TOS or the past TOS, when in fact I was not making any kind of argument about that at all.  You guys could not come close to understanding the difference between arguing about not being surprised there is another TOS change vs arguing about what the contents would be or what has changed in the past.

You also seem to ignore the posts where I stated I was wrong about something, or where I agreed with something from you guys or brought up something myself (like predicting the bug counts will shoot up again).

I really do no think you really have read what I have been saying, but instead invented in your own mind what I have been saying.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 03:23:09 AM by Moeis »

Spunky Munkee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1391 on: September 26, 2017, 04:14:45 AM »
In any Star Citizen forum if we engaged in this nonsense we would probably get banned at the first or second reply or get the thread locked as soon as the mods noticed or the mod was begged by a shitizen to ban us.

I think this has gone on long enough. If it counts I second or third a motion to ban this guy(s). Regardless if this is one or two shitizens they sound the same because they are cut from the same cloth.
I keep clicking here and it's like a bad movie that drags out and you are just hoping to see something come of it.
Nothing will ever come of talking with either of these two accounts, or heads of the same body.

Ban em. If you can ban their IP please do.

As soon as another ass clown who uses the same method shows up ban them too.

Backer42

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
  • Refundian
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1392 on: September 26, 2017, 04:23:14 AM »
If you or Serenstupidty were here to actually be engaged in a lively discussion, than you would. Having said that, all you can resort to is muddling the waters of any thread you post on because you have nothing more pertinent to say than "Oh noes, we are on at the same time.  Let's see what other hypothesis they come up with.  Lol."
She got baited and she literally confirmed using multiple accounts by doing this. She is too stupid to realize, how this looks to a sane person.

Motto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1023
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1393 on: September 26, 2017, 04:24:31 AM »
I am hesitant about that. Not being able to post here just because you disagree with Derek is basically the same behaviour those guys are doing. However, since Moeis and Serenstupidity both fail constantly to discuss accuratly, it might be best to ignore them discussion wise. Let them say what they want to say, so we have points to discuss with them after CIG has collapsed. I for one would like to see them eating their own words and see how they spin it.

Backer42

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
  • Refundian
Re: Star Citizen - The E.L.E.
« Reply #1394 on: September 26, 2017, 04:25:59 AM »
I am hesitant about that. Not being able to post here just because you disagree with Derek is basically the same behaviour those guys are doing. However, since Moeis and Serenstupidity both fail constantly to discuss accuratly, it might be best to ignore them discussion wise. Let them say what they want to say, so we have points to discuss with them after CIG has collapsed. I for oen would like to see them eating their own words and see how they spin it.
Paid shills disappear after collapse.

Because ... you know ... they don't get paid anymore.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk