Star Citizen - The E.L.E.

[StanTheMan]

CIG have had loads of time, money, and even talent, it's good leadership that's lacking. This will all get blamed on Chris Roberts when the dust settles.

I would agree that...based upon what we know...CRs leadership has been less than stellar.

I think he is...or at least was...stuck in the 90s when he made key decisions and having been out of the industries for over ten years he simply underestimated the time and work and resources needed to create SC.

I think he made a huge mistake in choosing CE as the games engine.

I think he chose it because it was the prettiest engine around rather than the engine most suited for the game.

I think CR being CR, he saw the extra funding as a way to bring his vision to life....what began as a crowdfunding exercise to demonstrate to investors and publishers that there was serious interest in a Wing Commander type game changed into visions of the MMO style life simulator he is creating now. Only...he wasn't ready to develop that game, hadn't truly planned for it, and essentially just started making plans on the fly.

And I think that CIG are stuck in a cycle of their own making. They need continued investment from backers to complete that vision.....because the MMO CR wants can easily suck up $2-300 million for development alone, never mind hosting, publishing and marketing costs. I think they are currently in a situation where their income at best matches their spending. I think to keep that income flowing, they are having to spend time and money on ships and items and vehicles so they can be sold to bring in money now, even though they will need to redo those assets later, even though this will extend the development time. And I think this is a large reason why the work on the engine and netcode and flight model...all of which should be locked down preAlpha....is still unfinished.

Development time for ship sales is simply a higher priority because they need the money.

Had CR simply stuck to his guns, released S42 as promised and then just kept developing SC as a separate game, CIG would likely be in a far better spot today.

As it is....I suspect that their future income will vary, will go up and down but generally I think that the trend will be one where their deficit will continue to grow.

3.0 is their last chance I believe to demonstrate real progress for the backers. Even if they do stop issuing refunds, I suspect that won't be enough....I suspect that will simply buy them a few months of development.

CIG need to get their engine finalised. The good news is that that is probably what has been delaying 3.0. The switch to Lumberyard. But whether it is or not, the engine needs to be  finalised, the netcode finished and integrated and the flight model improved.

That way they can start working on S42 and get it released...which will open up a new revenue stream. They could also perhaps look at monetising their engine and the toolkit they have supposedly developed. Of course, I'm not certain how the sub licensing situation would work with Crytek and Amazon.

But blame CR? When he has such a handy scapegoat available?

Remember...we're not just concerned at issues such as why SCs engine and netcode isn't finished or why progress is so slow with no valid excuse coming from CIG.

If we can't support SC with all its flaws, then we must HATE. the project (capitals are important) and must be actively working to destroy the game.

CRoberts is an idiot when it comes to developing games.

I have never developed a piece of software in my life but didnt he just have to go and find some creme de la creme MMO developers a splattering of other relevant professionals, some promising students etc , put them in a room for a week and see what plan they came up with for a space game,   then implement it after some sanity checks ?

He could be selling all his JPEGS and fidelity as new content for an existing game by now.

[nightfire]

...put them in a room for a week and see what plan they came up with for a space game,   then implement it after some sanity checks ?

To be fair, his job as a leader was to come up with the plan, their job was to provide the sanity checks and the implementation.

However, the sanity checks got lost along the way, or he simply didn't listen. And instead of mandating "make it work first, polish it later", he asked for the exact opposite at every turn. That's why SC today merely is a glorified car showroom with a small backyard to test drive a few of the fancy cars, while others are being sold as glossy brochures. Being stuck in development hell as they are, they'll never get beyond that.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Orgetorix]

However, the sanity checks got lost along the way, or he simply didn't listen.

“I really do listen to everybody but then I make a decision and I expect my decision to be enacted,” Roberts said in response to the claims above. “When I really lose it, it's because people passive-aggressively don't [do what they’ve been instructed], and instead try to push their agenda, coming up with reasons why it needs to be this other way. That really, really annoys me because it just creates friction all the time. I like to have a lot of really good creative people around and I like them to contribute all their ideas but when I say we're going left instead of right, everyone needs to go left. It's not an ego thing – it's about the project. -Croberts

[Motto]

I'm guessing he'll run for president then after CIG crashes. He can step right into Trump's shoes...

[Kyrt]

However, the sanity checks got lost along the way, or he simply didn't listen.

“I really do listen to everybody but then I make a decision and I expect my decision to be enacted,” Roberts said in response to the claims above. “When I really lose it, it's because people passive-aggressively don't [do what they’ve been instructed], and instead try to push their agenda, coming up with reasons why it needs to be this other way. That really, really annoys me because it just creates friction all the time. I like to have a lot of really good creative people around and I like them to contribute all their ideas but when I say we're going left instead of right, everyone needs to go left. It's not an ego thing – it's about the project. -Croberts

Which is what he...as project lead...should be doing.

The question is whether his judgement to turn left instead of right has been correct.

Looking back at his history on SC....

The original pitch for which he was developing was effectively S42. The MMO SC was an add on. Switching development from a WC successor to a MMO and effectively abandoning all the work done up to then was a mistake.

Choosing an engine based on its ability to be pretty....as I believe he did....instead of the engine most suited for the game being planned was a mistake

Keeping that engine once development had changed to an MMO style game instead of keeping quiet and developing a custom engine was a mistake

Farming out aspects of the game to third party developers while "updating" the engine and not keeping said contractors aware of said engine updates to the point most of their work was scrapped was a mistake

Continually underestimating the time and resources necessary to achieve his vision and providing release dates that were and are woefully unrealistic was a mistake

Continually focussing on needless frippery at the expense of core fundamental systems is a mistake

Should I go on?

On the flip side...a lot of what I dislike about what CR is doing and how might not really be "mistakes". They may even be...on their own way...necessary.

While CIGs claim that this game has unique scope, scale and ambition is patently ridiculous the truth is that he IS trying to develop a MMO style game. Those can be expensive to develop. SWTOR, a game very similar to SC in what it promises, took about $200 million to develop.

SC could easily cost $2-300 million to develop fully, were it to meet CRs vision. And that before hosting marketing and publishing costs

CR is likely aware of this...therefore he needs to keep the fundraising bandwagon rolling therefore a huge focus of CIG MUST remain on PR, marketing and sales. Hence...ship sales at the expense of core systems. Of course, that is also a mistake because people eventually ask for those core systems to be demonstrated.

[FredBloggs]

Let's not forget that space-toilets > Implementing the Game loops.

Yeah, seems space-toilets are the first thing to get implemented, the game be-damned.

[StanTheMan]

However, the sanity checks got lost along the way, or he simply didn't listen.

“I really do listen to everybody but then I make a decision and I expect my decision to be enacted,” Roberts said in response to the claims above. “When I really lose it, it's because people passive-aggressively don't [do what they’ve been instructed], and instead try to push their agenda, coming up with reasons why it needs to be this other way. That really, really annoys me because it just creates friction all the time. I like to have a lot of really good creative people around and I like them to contribute all their ideas but when I say we're going left instead of right, everyone needs to go left. It's not an ego thing – it's about the project. -Croberts

Which is what he...as project lead...should be doing.

The question is whether his judgement to turn left instead of right has been correct.

Looking back at his history on SC....

The original pitch for which he was developing was effectively S42. The MMO SC was an add on. Switching development from a WC successor to a MMO and effectively abandoning all the work done up to then was a mistake.

Choosing an engine based on its ability to be pretty....as I believe he did....instead of the engine most suited for the game being planned was a mistake

Keeping that engine once development had changed to an MMO style game instead of keeping quiet and developing a custom engine was a mistake

Farming out aspects of the game to third party developers while "updating" the engine and not keeping said contractors aware of said engine updates to the point most of their work was scrapped was a mistake

Continually underestimating the time and resources necessary to achieve his vision and providing release dates that were and are woefully unrealistic was a mistake

Continually focussing on needless frippery at the expense of core fundamental systems is a mistake

Should I go on?

On the flip side...a lot of what I dislike about what CR is doing and how might not really be "mistakes". They may even be...on their own way...necessary.

While CIGs claim that this game has unique scope, scale and ambition is patently ridiculous the truth is that he IS trying to develop a MMO style game. Those can be expensive to develop. SWTOR, a game very similar to SC in what it promises, took about $200 million to develop.

SC could easily cost $2-300 million to develop fully, were it to meet CRs vision. And that before hosting marketing and publishing costs

CR is likely aware of this...therefore he needs to keep the fundraising bandwagon rolling therefore a huge focus of CIG MUST remain on PR, marketing and sales. Hence...ship sales at the expense of core systems. Of course, that is also a mistake because people eventually ask for those core systems to be demonstrated.

And what people say they do and what they actually do are often very different.

Chris Roberts is on record as a monumental liar. 

There is no question about that and you can't shove it under the carpet and excuse it as "marketing" or anything else.

[Spunky Munkee]

Selling toiletries will raise revenues. Important to a game no doubt. People play games to escape reality for a bit. The last thing people want are the mundane annoyances that we have to deal with fees, toilets, hangar rents and any other costs he can tack on. No doubt he is way off track here but he is the boss and what he says goes.

he should have been a, one of the creative leads and a real competent project manager with relevant skills could have set him straight on what he should never promise because it's not achievable on a large scale.

Soon it will all be water under the bridge as this collapses under it's own corruption and lies.

[Kyrt]

And what people say they do and what they actually do are often very different.

Chris Roberts is on record as a monumental liar. 

There is no question about that and you can't shove it under the carpet and excuse it as "marketing" or anything else.

Hes as guilty of it as any PR agent or publisher. Most of what he is doing IS marketing and fund raising and a lot of people are happy to throw cash at him.

Its not any better when Activision does it or EA or Konami.

[Orgetorix]

Which is what he...as project lead...should be doing.

The question is whether his judgement to turn left instead of right has been correct.

I see where you're coming from here, but I fundamentally disagree with the premise that a project managers primary job function is to give directional commands. In my estimation a good project managers primary responsibility is the emotional well-being, and engagement of the team members on the project.

Having said that lets breakdown this quote from the perspective of a good manager vs. a bad manager, in this regard,

“I really do listen to everybody but then I make a decision and I expect my decision to be enacted,”

On the face this statement seems reasonable, in retrospect it is ridiculous because of the use of the single word "everybody". Any person managing a project on this scale will have delegated authority, and will respect that delegation. Command structure is implemented for a reason. It creates levels of buffering. No single person, at this level of development, can keep the entirety of the project in focus, all the time.

Disregarding this is a prime display of micromanaging, which is just another form of mismanagement of scope.

When a low level dev always has it in the back of their mind that they are directly answerable, at any time, to Croberts. It will adversely affect their performance.

“When I really lose it,

No manager, ever, should "lose it". A statement like this just tends to evoke visions of the lowly wage slave, browbeaten, and bullied by a tyrannical boss. Tyranny in the workplace, never, EVER, in the end, leads to lasting results.

it's because people passive-aggressively don't [do what they’ve been instructed], and instead try to push their agenda, coming up with reasons why it needs to be this other way.

Stating that the members of your team are "passive-aggressive" reflects more on your abilities as a project manager, then it does on your team. A good manager will always remember that human beings aren't robotic computers. Though, Garbage In, Garbage Out, still applies. A good manager will understand that computers don't get pissed off when they are fed shit, but people do...

A good manager will try to understand why they have team members pushing back. They will have humility when trying to understand the "agenda" and "reasons" why they're getting push back. Knowing that they can never fully understand a problem if they come at it from the perspective of "knowing it all".   

That really, really annoys me because it just creates friction all the time. I like to have a lot of really good creative people around and I like them to contribute all their ideas but when I say we're going left instead of right, everyone needs to go left. It's not an ego thing – it's about the project.

This last part is just awash in a bad managers Ego. Annoyances are a function of Ego, and perceived friction is fundamentally driven by Ego. Whining like a little child will not produce results. A good project manager would put on the bigboy pants, and do the best that they could to bring the team into harmony.

The question is whether his judgement to turn left instead of right has been correct.

The question isn't whether Croberts judgment in direction is correct, but whether his judgement in any respect of this project is correct.

edit. In summation a good project manager understands that the goal of the project is a by product of building an environment that will be eminently conducive to bringing that end goal to fruition.

The best example of this mindset that comes to my mind, is a doc I watched years ago about sustainable organic farming. The farmer was raising beef/milking cows and chickens. He would rotate pastures, cows first, then he would let the chickens into that pasture to pick through the cow manure, and eat the larvae, and seeds as they've done for aeons.

They spent a good amount of time going over his farm and all the benefits of his methods. At the end though he made a statement that was truly brilliant. He said, "I'm not raising cows or chickens, what I'm really doing is growing 15 different kinds of grass, that's my focus."

That right there is the difference between a good manager and a bad one. It's all about making sure the team has what they need to succeed. You can't force them succeed, but if you provide what they need to thrive, then they will.

[Motto]

I'd say that is a question that has been answered already.

[Motto]

My main task as PM is to prevend Sales from selling stuff we don't have/can't do for prices we can't live from  :supaburn:

 After that, my job basically runs itself  :D

[Wiggleitjiggle]

I was comparing what I do "building" something from the ground up with a budget and running the men to what he is supposedly doing which is also building something from the ground up, albeit i guess without a budget

[ChrisIhao]

I was comparing what I do "building" something from the ground up with a budget and running the men to what he is supposedly doing which is also building something from the ground up, albeit i guess without a budget

Great input in your post above here.

I guess another thing you dont do is to give yourself and other leaders (in CR's case; family and friends) big bonuses before even 1/50 of said project is completed.

[Spunky Munkee]

When he sold investors on his "Ascendant Pictures" "business opportunity" or scam as it became he took 20% right off the top of the investors money. He then borrowed 20% of the money back from the banks leaving the film profits as collateral. This loan was to replace the backers money. Now both the investors and the bank expect to reap the rewards of the profits but the bank is first in line.

In the end the whole thing fell apart, one of Roberts partners went to prison for it. Since we cannot see the financials we have no way of knowing what funny business is going on in this Star Citizen project. There are NO mistakes. I believe this project is doing exactly what Roberts and Ortwin expect and they probably pay themselves handsomely but refuse to let their backers see what is going on.

The amazing thing is that these fools are just cheering Roberts on. "Oh yeah I can't wait for my super diluted empty 3.0 patch. My life will be complete." Take my life savings uncle Robert!