Star Citizen - The E.L.E.

[N0mad]

Welcome to the group  - hang on in there I'm sure they'll get back to you.

[N0mad]

Looks like they'll make the Avocado testing group by next week some time. It's still worth remembering that all they'll be able to do is Move Around, you know, that game mechanic that every other game usually implements pretty early on.



It'll be interesting to hear from the Avocados when stuff starts to leak.

[Aya Reiko]

Looks like they'll make the Avocado testing group by next week some time. It's still worth remembering that all they'll be able to do is Move Around, you know, that game mechanic that every other game usually implements pretty early on.



It'll be interesting to hear from the Avocados when stuff starts to leak.

And remember they claimed 3.0 would feature the entire planetary system.  Then they scaled it back to one planet and its moons.  And then they likely scaled it back further.

[Justanotherposter]

And remember they claimed 3.0 would feature the entire planetary system.  Then they scaled it back to one planet and its moons.  And then they likely scaled it back further.

Oh for sure they've scaled it back even more. Didn't they go on record saying that some of the stuff that needed fixing has just been brushed under the rug, and will be dealt with later on in the future?

But see, I don't really think it matters in the eyes of the true believers. I'm sorry if that seems like a harsh term, but I still think it's appropriate. People can (and will) just say: "see, they're making progress!" "lol DS, you said the game was doomed and now we're playing 3.0!" "think about all the wonderful things we will get to do when they release 3.1!"

A lot of people will see behind that of course. And that's why the refundians are growing in numbers daily. It's important to remember that in between these far opposites, there are a bunch of regular gamers who are still on the fence about the whole thing. But it's getting to that point where it's getting hard to keep up the suspension of disbelief.

[Motto]

The thing is that Chris can't pull it off any longer. He claimed at GC16 that 3.0 was nearly there. He claimed an mid December release - hopefully. Then at GC17 still no 3.0 and what he showed there was crap. After GC17 they started removing everything out of 3.0 that doesn't work just to be able to release a 3.0 and report some progress. There is no way that the final 3.0 will actually deliver progress at all. The only progress is that it will be labelled 3.0 and everybody will ask what the progress is. If 3.0 is going to be 2.6.3 with fewer glitches, it won't fly with the backers. The 3.0 will need to have new stuff implemented. That's the progress people want and that's what they're not going to get. Now if they actually believe the 3.0 and hold on to 3.1, Chris will have gained nothing, because the 3.1 will be more of the same. Those stupid enough to stick around even after 3.0 will come to the other side then. It's a rinse and repeat by now and there are not many repeats left. Even without refunding, the moneyriver will dry up and without delivering what he promised, Chris has to pay back every last penny.

[Serendipity]

There's a lot of guesswork, fantasy and conjecture in that post Motto.

Landing on moons with millions of square kilometres to explore is certainly progress and it will keep a lot of people happy.

I'd bet we'll see a Squadron trailer or vertical slice at Citizencon and whadda ya know, more progress on display.

You guys have been prophecising the end of the money river for years...still waiting.

[StanTheMan]

There's a lot of guesswork, fantasy and conjecture in that post Motto.

Landing on moons with millions of square kilometres to explore is certainly progress and it will keep a lot of people happy.

I'd bet we'll see a Squadron trailer or vertical slice at Citizencon and whadda ya know, more progress on display.

You guys have been prophecising the end of the money river for years...still waiting.

I agree there is conjecture.

It certainly isnt fantasy and calling it guesswork denies the established facts.

But you seem to believe that money is the answer.

He has already spent a fortune and he still doesnt know what he is doing.

Thats a problem if you actually want a game.

If there was an already developed mechanic to build bases and anything to actually explore on the planet surface I think they would already be showing that.

Given they are not showing that, what confidence can anyone have that it is round the corner (coming soon) ?

If it isnt coming soon then people who might otherwise be distracted by base building mechanics will not be distracted by it and their discontent with lack of a game with content will continue.

There are plenty of Backers that wont be distracted by base building even if they did implement it.

The money can come from many sources but it is less and less likely to come from established Backers.

Investors are not interested now why would they be in the future  with nothing approaching  game on the horizon and an increasingly entrenched team of scammers at the helm ?

So even the money is in jeopardy if they don't deliver something substantial - soon.

The longer the list of those that have lost faith the more difficult it is to present SC and Croberts as something people want to get involved in.

Star Citizen has to be delivered as a coherent game in some reasonable timeframe or it ceases to be relevant to people that play games,.

If it isnt cool to back it or anything other than a laughing stock you'd be left with very little.

[Motto]

There's a lot of guesswork, fantasy and conjecture in that post Motto.

Actually, there isn't. You're just not willing to accept that. Yet.

But I for one can't wait to see CIG releasing 3.0. It's gonna be fun to watch how that lands. I hope they do it before Shitizen Con too. That'll give an extra spin to that event as well.

[Backer42]

But I for one can't wait to see CIG releasing 3.0. It's gonna be fun to watch how that lands. I hope they do it before Shitizen Con too. That'll give an extra spin to that event as well.

Two weeks.

[Greggy_D]

So...they went from 26 Must Fix bugs to 7.

How many of the 26 bugs were actually fixed?
How many of the 26 bugs were actually not fixed, recategorized, and placed on the shelf waiting to be fixed another day?
How many new bugs were found while they were supposedly fixing the 26 bugs?

Smoke and mirrors, my Commandos.

[Backer42]

Fixing these 7 bugs will now take the rest of the year.

[Kyrt]

There's a lot of guesswork, fantasy and conjecture in that post Motto.

Landing on moons with millions of square kilometres to explore is certainly progress and it will keep a lot of people happy.

Its progress to be sure....but what we are getting is less than was promised and with the talk about "transitioning" bugs it is obvious CIG are cutting more and more simply to release SOMETHING they can label 3.0.

That isn't a lot of progress.

Which is, at heart, the central issue.

There is NOTHING in CIGs bucket list of things to add that is impossible, new or unique. Just about everything they promised CAN be done.

Given enough time and money that is.

What is so inexplicable is why is it taking so long?

We are approaching Year 7 of the games development. And CIG have still not finished the game engine, netcode or flight model. These would be the very basics its needs to do...the foundations....these would be the game aspects they need to lock down and finalise early in the development so they can then work on features and content.

Six years into development and CIG are still in the pre-Alpha phase.

And despite this, they seem happy enough to develop ships and content that will need to be reworked and upgraded as the engine evolves, content to fiddle with features before knowing if the underlying game can handle them.

There is no point in promising FOIP and VOIP now before the netcode is ready. There is no point in creating ships now as the GC17 drmo shows us they already look dated and the work needs to be redone.

That is a huge misallocation of resources we are talking about and it speaks both to bad management, poor project control and warped priorities on the part of CIG.

The game can be done and CIG are making progress. The problem is that given the number of devs....given the money they have raised....given the money they have spent....

the progress they are making can be summed as as painfully, glacially slow.

And none of their excuses really explains that.

The one excuse that DOES explain the slow speed and their wonky development path is that they are a business, and like any business they are mptivated by a desire to protect and grow their revenue stream.

That is, ship sales. CIG is a business which sells "crowdfunding Star Citizen". That explains the slow progression, it explains why fixing the engine isn't a top priority, it explains why they add in features they can hype up, it explains why they don't worry about the work wasted in having to redo characters and ships two or three times and it explains the focus on ship sales. It even explains why they were so careless about the demo at GC17 or why they are willing to risk the IP through a loan.  To a large degree, the game itself is inconsequential.

But SC supporters don't like that idea.

You guys have been prophecising the end of the money river for years...still waiting.

Unless CIG are in worse shape than I think they are, they likely have enough money to last another three years or so. However, unless they cut costs, my suspucion is that they are spending just a bit more than they bring in.

They might be able to cut costs but I think they'll have enough money to finish much of what they want. Whether they'll have enough left over for a marketing campaign and to run their servers, especially as they have ruled out a subscription model, is another question

[Motto]

They're shooting themselves in the foot with these bugsmashing updates. No way of turning back to more bugs if the game ends up unplayable next week. They're heading straight for the 3.0 release no matter how crap it is build  :dance:

But that's okay, 'cause it isn't about the game. It's about the new 3.0 ToS that'll take away all the rights to a refund. Guess what Chris, you can't do that. This time, you actually have to deliver what you promised, or pay every penny back. Good luck with that!

[N0mad]

There is NOTHING in CIGs bucket list of things to add that is impossible, new or unique. Just about everything they promised CAN be done.

Given enough time and money that is.

CIG have had loads of time, money, and even talent, it's good leadership that's lacking. This will all get blamed on Chris Roberts when the dust settles.

[dsmart]

Looks like they'll make the Avocado testing group by next week some time. It's still worth remembering that all they'll be able to do is Move Around, you know, that game mechanic that every other game usually implements pretty early on.



It'll be interesting to hear from the Avocados when stuff starts to leak.

Yeah, they started removing stuff since the Sept 8th update. This is how they went from a few dozen issues to a hand full.

But yeah, Goons have been in Avocado. So it's safe to say that we'll know what's going on the minute it happens. Screen shots and everything.