Star Citizen - The E.L.E.

[N0mad]

So, if 3.0 doesn't come out before GamesCon, will the new TOS (with refund prevention) be launched before the fundraising event? Perhaps all the new ship sales will come with the new TOS ?

Should be interesting.

[Motto]

I'm really interested to see what they've got for ShitizenCon. Nothing on SQ42, the 3.0 demo at GC17 was a disaster and I highly doubt that even if they did manage internally to do that sequence again without flaws, why would they demonstrate it again? And what will they be selling? Yet another  picture of a spaceship? Again? And with a new ToS before those sales? That should warn off the most idiotic backer. Or do they all believe that the new ToS means that SC now finally is there? Some are arguing already that 3.0 basically means going from alpha to beta 

[N0mad]

As I understand it, CitizenCon has always been a marketing push to get the Whales to splash out on a new shiny Jpeg. It almost doesn't matter what gameplay they show, as long as there's an advert for a new Jpeg ship that the fans can get over-excited about.

Of course, there has been some talk about a "Game Changer" ship, which I have no doubt will be the main point of interest as well as fundraising. Possibly a base building ship???

Whatever they do, this might be their last chance for CRoberts to fill his pockets with their cash, so I suspect it should be a good show!

Can't wait to see their faces when StarScam finally collapses.

[nightfire]

I highly doubt that even if they did manage internally to do that sequence again without flaws, why would they demonstrate it again?

Because in the meantime, they’ve made some changes. The rover will blow up again, but only after being hit by a sandworm. Said sandworm will be available for purchase since they’ve spent a year polishing it now, but it’s still not hangar-ready yet.

[Moeis]

BREAKING!! There is a new Star Citizen ToS in the works. Sources say it is likely to go online with the 3.0 release.

meh, wouldn't really call that breaking news, more like just stating something that anybody would expect to happen anyways, cause it seems like common practice these days. I am greeted with a new TOS frequently for so much of my games and service when ever they update (some for small updates and others with large updates).

Once again you display your abject ignorance.

The game isn't released.

They've had about 4 ToS revisions, each one worse than the one before, and geared toward removing backer rights.

Back in 2016 when I said they would change it because they had failed to release the games, and were going to use it to refuse refunds, then they did just that months later with 2.0 release - where were you?

And if he is now claiming that the 3.0 game is now Early Access MVP, not only is that a big Red flag, but also the changing of the ToS is highly pertinent.

Whether you think it's breaking news or not, is irrlevant, and you can't tell me what I can or cannot write or proclaim. I am sure those who find the news relevant will take it as such, and nobody cares what you think.

I am not sure how expecting a TOS change is a sign of ignorance, it actually seems to be the opposite of ignorance.

I was not arguing about the contents of the TOS or anything that will change.

[Motto]

Based on what exactly do you expect a change in the ToS? For me, it's not normal to change the ToS when nothing else has changed. Going from alpha 2.6.3 to alpha 3.0 doesn't warrant a change in the ToS. Of course, a minor update or correction could be done at all times, but I can guarantee that the new ToS will be very different from the previous one, especially when it comes to the rights you have as a backer. Zero to none, probably.

[StanTheMan]

I'm really interested to see what they've got for ShitizenCon. Nothing on SQ42, the 3.0 demo at GC17 was a disaster and I highly doubt that even if they did manage internally to do that sequence again without flaws, why would they demonstrate it again? And what will they be selling? Yet another  picture of a spaceship? Again? And with a new ToS before those sales? That should warn off the most idiotic backer. Or do they all believe that the new ToS means that SC now finally is there? Some are arguing already that 3.0 basically means going from alpha to beta 

All they have to do is roll out some mocap or audio etc featuring some of the actors they hired.

[Orgetorix]

I am not sure how expecting a TOS change is a sign of ignorance, it actually seems to be the opposite of ignorance.

I was not arguing about the contents of the TOS or anything that will change.

And yet again you display your abject ignorance,

The whole point of this tale is one of decline. The truth of the matter is that every time Star Citizen has made a realistic change, it's been a change for the worse. The reality of the promises that Croberts made for the world of Star Citizen are on such a grandiose scale, that they can never, ever be fulfilled. That's exactly what Derek's 1st blog post was all about. Go read it and find some wisdom.

...every time I've seen Star Citizen's TOS change, it's always been for the worse.

In Croberts ever feckless way, he has only been seeking to indemnify himself from future liability by constant, continual, contractual negotiations with the backers via the TOS. The very people who have paid him in full, to the tune of $150 million+, for a product that meets Croberts publicly announced specifications, via kickstarter, and additional stretch goals.

Only each and every change of the SC TOS has been geared to effect his release from his many and weighty, contractually binding obligations, on this account.

All most of us here have done is nothing more then a simple plot graph. Once you have your data points plotted, and you see that the line is in continual decline. You're only waiting for that plot line to break through fundamental levels of resistance, after that happens then it's just waiting for the dead cat bounce. Stock traders do this elementary function on a daily basis.

Please, give yourself an education. You have the means for free, avail yourself of them.

Ode to Croberts and Star Citizen as written by Shakespeare....

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps Star Citizen's petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all Croberts yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, Croberts a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. Star Citizen is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. 

[Moeis]

I am not sure how expecting a TOS change is a sign of ignorance, it actually seems to be the opposite of ignorance.

I was not arguing about the contents of the TOS or anything that will change.

And yet again you display your abject ignorance,

The whole point of this tale is one of decline. The truth of the matter is that every time Star Citizen has made a realistic change, it's been a change for the worse. The reality of the promises that Croberts made for the world of Star Citizen are on such a grandiose scale, that they can never, ever be fulfilled. That's exactly what Derek's 1st blog post was all about. Go read it and find some wisdom.

...every time I've seen Star Citizen's TOS change, it's always been for the worse.

In Croberts ever feckless way, he has only been seeking to indemnify himself from future liability by constant, continual, contractual negotiations with the backers via the TOS. The very people who have paid him in full, to the tune of $150 million+, for a product that meets Croberts publicly announced specifications, via kickstarter, and additional stretch goals.

Only each and every change of the SC TOS has been geared to effect his release from his many and weighty, contractually binding obligations, on this account.

All most of us here have done is nothing more then a simple plot graph. Once you have your data points plotted, and you see that the line is in continual decline. You're only waiting for that plot line to break through fundamental levels of resistance, after that happens then it's just waiting for the dead cat bounce. Stock traders do this elementary function on a daily basis.

Please, give yourself an education. You have the means for free, avail yourself of them.

Ode to Croberts and Star Citizen as written by Shakespeare....

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps Star Citizen's petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all Croberts yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, Croberts a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. Star Citizen is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. 

You guys seem to think I am making an argument or a statement about the contents of a TOS, when in fact I said no such thing.
You guys are making argument responses to arguments I didn't make.

It really is not ignorant to expect another TOS change to becoming soon, when you look back at history you can come up with this expectation, really that is the exact opposite of being ignorant, that is paying attention.

All I am saying is the breaking news would have been more interesting if it contained what those changes would be.  It like being told "Breaking News: Donald Trump is going to do something stupid", yes we all know he will so that is not breaking news.

[Orgetorix]

You guys seem to think I am making an argument or a statement about the contents of a TOS, when in fact I said no such thing.
You guys are making argument responses to arguments I didn't make.

It really is not ignorant to expect another TOS change to becoming soon, when you look back at history you can come up with this expectation, really that is the exact opposite of being ignorant, that is paying attention.

All I am saying is the breaking news would have been more interesting if it contained what those changes would be.  It like being told "Breaking News: Donald Trump is going to do something stupid", yes we all know he will so that is not breaking news.

Are you purposefully trying to be obtuse, or are you really so dumb that you can't see the point that is being made here about Star Citizen's massive TOS changes over time? I'm not trying to pursue argumentum ad hominem in this, and I mean that truly.

[Moeis]

You guys seem to think I am making an argument or a statement about the contents of a TOS, when in fact I said no such thing.
You guys are making argument responses to arguments I didn't make.

It really is not ignorant to expect another TOS change to becoming soon, when you look back at history you can come up with this expectation, really that is the exact opposite of being ignorant, that is paying attention.

All I am saying is the breaking news would have been more interesting if it contained what those changes would be.  It like being told "Breaking News: Donald Trump is going to do something stupid", yes we all know he will so that is not breaking news.

Are you purposefully trying to be obtuse, or are you really so dumb that you can't see the point that is being made here about Star Citizen's massive TOS changes over time? I'm not trying to pursue argumentum ad hominem in this, and I mean that truly.

There is no point in saying "Breaking News:  Donald Trump is going to do something stupid"  that isn't news, that is just stating something that anybody who has been paying attention should already be expecting, the same goes with saying there is going to be a new TOS.  Now if the news included what the stupid thing that Donald Trump is going to do, or in the case of TOS change to include what the changes are going to be that would be breaking news.

Or another game related:  "Breaking news: There are going to be bugs in Alpha 3.0", it would be lame to see that as breaking news, cause everybody already expects there to be bugs in Alpha 3.0, the real news would be what are those bugs and what their effects are on the game.

Do you get it now?

[the_wolfmann]

Guys is there a reason to argue with Moeis because he also landed at the conclusion that there will be a new TOS update coming with 3.0? I know us critical thinkers figured that a long time ago that CIG will have to attempt to stop the refunds bleeding to secure more funds. With the recent coming-to-light events it would seem that those funds would go into securing their exit strategy.

Going back to the origin of this looped up discussion - Moeis was just stating he's not buying into Dr. Smart's *BREAKING NEWS* label to the fact that is the incoming TOS change. I think a more reasonable explanation as to why this label is and will be needed is that not all people have all the "data points plotted" (as Orgetorix explained), ergo, for them this TOS change will truthfully be breaking news because they hadn't expected this. Also, this is a gimmick that's used to draw attention applied by any news agency as far back as the dawn of the newspapers. It doesn't mean the news would be breaking to 100% or even sometimes 10% of the people reading them but will most probably mentally force them to re-read the title.

Therefore, because Moeis saw through this gimmick, it's not reasonably justifiable to go as far as calling him ignorant and obtuse all because he's had controversial posts elsewhere in the forum. I remember there was a post a while back where someone else was pointing out that the amount of unfound hatered is going a bit overboard. I know I'm very tempted at times to vent my frustration for this project at someone that's willing to defend it (even if they said something even slightly positive). But then I remember it's not primarily their fault the project is such a mess and doesn't deserve their faith in it.

In closing I don't think we'd get this kind of backlash if one of the regular posters said the TOS change is not breaking news. I just know there's a better way for us to understand each other other than assuming the person on the other side had the worst of intentions with their counter statement. This is especially true for you, Moeis. Do try to get your point across more clearly from the first try and avoid using a condescending tone like:

Do you get it now?

[StanTheMan]

"Breaking News" isnt a "gimmick" it is an established convention.

[the_wolfmann]

"Breaking News" isnt a "gimmick" it is an established convention.

While in some cases the word gimmick might mean something "novel" that grabs attention and is not yet established I was going with the following meaning http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gimmick:

something that is not serious or of real value that is used to attract people's attention or interest temporarily, especially to make them buy something

Not my fault languages are ambiguous like that is it? :eng99:

The reason why the phrase "Breaking news" has become a gimmick is the sheer overuse it gets in mainstream media. Hence discussing the matter further is fruitless.

The facts are clear: There will be a TOS change that limits backer's rights as far as CR dares to push it. "Breaking" or not doesn't make that any less true.

[Motto]

The thing is that Moeis didn't explain why he wasn't surprised by the ToS news. The only reason not the be surprised is when you know that Chris is a scamming thief and that something like a new ToS will only suit his scamming plans. Now Moeis doesn't seem to be a believer of Chris as a scammer, so that reason fails for him. Which to most of us led to reason that he was expecting the new ToS because of other reasons that seem logical only to him. Now without his reasoning for that explained, it's a wild guess as to why he thought that.