Star Citizen - The E.L.E.

[Serendipity]

I think the funding chart is fake (as in they don't still collect 3 - 4 m. every month).   

You're correct. They don't collect 3 to 4 million a month.

[Serendipity]

This certainty of failure is hilarious.

 They promised BDSSE, but after 5 years and +150m later all they have is semi-broken pre-Alfa...
To me this is a failure already.

 Currently Elite (current BDSSE) and even No Man sky v1.3 are better games.

 And don't tell me, that game development is hard - its a weak people poor excuse..maybe its too hard for CR and his team..maybe then they need to simplify game to get it done...   
 

I agree. Elite and NMS are better games right now. SC will get much better in time. Will it end up better than those? Dunno. Neither do you.

I think they will and have simplified it. Star Marine, for example, was gutted after embarrassing communication errors.

I'm obviously more forgiving of the fact they've shifted their goals during development, landing locations to full planets etc. I can wait. No rush for me.

CIG are selling digital licenses to use assets they have created for use within the video games they're in the process of creating and licenses to play the games they are producing.

So the buggy, limited alpha version with virtually no playable content is what people are paying for?

oh but wait, they get a great ship, to do all that nothing with

is that a reasonable assessment of the current state of affairs?

People are paying for what the game will be, not what it is right now. It says clearly on each and every sale page that the game is in alpha.

The ships are great though, you got that right. Real works of art that shame everyone else's attempts at creating digital space ships. Not astheticaly you understand, but the mechanics and 'realism' of their designs. Superb.

[N0mad]

People are paying for what the game will be, not what it is right now. It says clearly on each and every sale page that the game is in alpha.

And that's basically the problem - People are being sold a dream and a promise.

If you look at any other open access games, firstly they are less expensive, and secondly the core game mechanics are normally in place before it's released into early access / alpha / whatever you want to call it.

But Star Citizen is different: they're asking for excessive amounts of money, often for ships which don't exist. The core engine, let alone the core gameplay mechanics are no where near being finished and CIG have a history of making and then breaking promises.

If they were honest with people and made it clear that there isn't going to be a game until 2021 then we might be more forgiving, but of course then they wouldn't make so much out of ship sales (which appear to be the only product CIG can be relied on to make)!

[dsmart]

You ask us to trust you that it's gone this time but how can I trust you when you've said the same thing before

Why can't all those statements be true - the money probably is all gone given the huge costs of running 4 studios. It's only because of dreamers like you giving the company more money that they manage to stay afloat at all without producing a single product with the promised features.

I have been ignoring him because it's clear that he's either really stupid, or just a really bad troll.

Anyone who would take a statement like that literally, when in fact it's clearly hyperbole in tone and context, is either stupid or a bad troll. It's almost as if when an analyst on Wall St writes that all investor money is gone, even as the company in question is still operational, they literally mean the bank account is empty and that the company is existing on good will and air.

But think about it, these are the same people putting money into Star Citizen in order to keep propping it up so it doesn't collapse. But it will; and there's no getting away from that.

[dsmart]

You simply need to know that regardless of the claims CIG made after the fact, after the news of the second loan was taken out, that companies do not take loans out because they are sitting flush with cash. We do not need to convince YOU of anything. Any REASONABLE person knows that people who have money don't borrow money unless borrowing it is cheaper than using their own. They never established that with any sort of EVIDENCE. They just hammered off a quick letter asserting certain things that the world is supposed to take as fact with no EVIDENCE to support it.

Aside from the fact that 1) they never even disclosed it, until I Tweeted, then wrote a blog about it that started a furor 2) Ortwin came out on a Sunday to make a forum post about it that raised more questions than it answered

But it wasn't that important though. Oh no, not at all.  :bahgawd:

[Serendipity]

You ask us to trust you that it's gone this time but how can I trust you when you've said the same thing before

Why can't all those statements be true - the money probably is all gone given the huge costs of running 4 studios. It's only because of dreamers like you giving the company more money that they manage to stay afloat at all without producing a single product with the promised features.

I have been ignoring him because it's clear that he's either really stupid, or just a really bad troll.

Anyone who would take a statement like that literally, when in fact it's clearly hyperbole in tone and context, is either stupid or a bad troll. It's almost as if when an analyst on Wall St writes that all investor money is gone, even as the company in question is still operational, they literally mean the bank account is empty and that the company is existing on good will and air.

But think about it, these are the same people putting money into Star Citizen in order to keep propping it up so it doesn't collapse. But it will; and there's no getting away from that.

The old hyperbole routine again huh? Fine. 2 years of the same hyperbole and no collapse in sight. Was it hyperbole 2 years ago too? Predictions of last year being the last citizencon...tumbleweed. No doubt more hyperbole. If everything you tweet is hyperbole, what's the point? How can we trust you when nothing you say is what you actually think is true but an exaggeration? How will you feel if they haven't collapsed a further two years from now like how it's transpired from the first tweet I linked?

Some might think you had an ulterior motive.

This same person hasn't given money to CIG for quite some time, I haven't propped anything up.

[Spunky Munkee]

Is this the first time they took a loan for currency conversion? If so, why don't they do this every year?

Because Britain hasn't voted to leave the EU, causing the pound's value against the dollar to crash, every year.

So they borrowed money from a British bank to top off their coffers at Foundry 42 because brexit caused the value of the pound to fall? Did I get that straight? If the value of the currency fell it does not change the fact that if you had adequate cash reserves you would make payroll. Beyond that if you were paying Britiish employees the value of the pound is immaterial unless they were paying the German staff too but once again adequate cash reserves would negate this and ROberts said they had plenty of money, but he did say they no longer had the money to build the servers to play on once the game was finished and he needed more money for that. That would put us back in the "were broke" category. Aside from that if you move cash from the US to England you would get a great exchange rate offsetting any expense you might have for conversion. (I dont know why they cant get banks to do this at favorable rates. There are banks who operate across borders. There was no justification for a loan so it would seem. I get tired of this crap.The conclusions we have drawn are clear. CIG is in moral peril. I was going to say FInancial peril but I guess I'm tired, the first line is generally true as well.

Not much has been said lately about how when I (and many backers) joined up the TOS said we were  entitled to some clarity even into the finances of the game, to see where the money is going. Then Roberts unilaterally changed the rules. The funny thing is even the people who did not agree to his new TOS that was a one way street allowing him to hide the financials from the backers but the backers who refused to start the game under the new TOS and should be covered under the old TOS were refused their rights under that original agreement and were refused access top play (though they paid for it) and were further refused refunds. I guess everything goes Roberts and Ortwin's way, Backers are just there to pay the bills and shut their pie holes.

Now that's a heck of a transparent corporation. Probably about as transparent as Obama's administration. I think some people are still waiting for FOIA requests from his administration. Probably good friends with Roberts.

[dsmart]

Is this the first time they took a loan for currency conversion? If so, why don't they do this every year?

Because Britain hasn't voted to leave the EU, causing the pound's value against the dollar to crash, every year.

So they borrowed money from a British bank to top off their coffers at Foundry 42 because brexit caused the value of the pound to fall? Did I get that straight? If the value of the currency fell it does not change the fact that if you had adequate cash reserves you would make payroll. Beyond that if you were paying Britiish employees the value of the pound is immaterial unless they were paying the German staff too but once again adequate cash reserves would negate this and ROberts said they had plenty of money, but he did say they no longer had the money to build the servers to play on once the game was finished and he needed more money for that. That would put us back in the "were broke" category. Aside from that if you move cash from the US to England you would get a great exchange rate offsetting any expense you might have for conversion. (I dont know why they cant get banks to do this at favorable rates. There are banks who operate across borders. There was no justification for a loan so it would seem. I get tired of this crap.The conclusions we have drawn are clear. CIG is in moral peril. I was going to say FInancial peril but I guess I'm tired, the first line is generally true as well.

Yes, it's bollocks. All of it. Don't even waste your time trying to explain this, we've all tried. And I even wrote an entire blog - complete with cited sources - on it. The True Believers don't give a shit really; they will spin anything. Which is precisely why the project is a fucking train wreck that's on life support.

[StarBallz]

@Serendipity
I'm obviously more forgiving of the fact they've shifted their goals during development, landing locations to full planets etc. I can wait. No rush for me.



Good for you that you want to wait, that's why we discuss here, because we're tired of waiting, please take your blind pro SC arguments to their own forum and  :bahgawd: over there and hail them, we've waited long enough and too many false promises, lies, deceptions, etc.

[dsmart]

@Serendipity
I'm obviously more forgiving of the fact they've shifted their goals during development, landing locations to full planets etc. I can wait. No rush for me.



Good for you that you want to wait, that's why we discuss here, because we're tired of waiting, please take your blind pro SC arguments to their own forum and  :bahgawd: over there and hail them, we've waited long enough and too many false promises, lies, deceptions, etc.

That's the part about this forum that he just doesn't get. We're ALL gamers here; and I think everyone here (I was an original backer) backed the project. We're just not Shillizen zealots who can't question things, or who end up being attacked for questioning things.

[Motto]

Meanwhile.... What if CIG focuses on ship sales during the Gamescom presentation?

What do they mean by "what if" ?

Or this one: When CIG inevitably succeeds with SC one day, what will you remember as your biggest concerns about the progress of this project?

Since when is fails spelled succeeds?

[Greggy_D]

and the other saved/s money on currency conversion.

That is a complete lie.  Currency conversion is very, very cheap and certainly not more costly that the interest incurred on their loan for said currency conversion.

[N0mad]

Big LOLs for this one, but no surprise to find out that 3.0 is a buggy mess.

In a rare moment of honesty (for CIG) Eric Davis announces at the end of the Burndown that they've gone from 78 blocking bugs (from the last ATV) to 88 !! But with a helpful chart to show how they've magically resolved 8 of them the next day.

The chart even has a nice regression line showing an overall reduction in the number of bugs. Looks like progress until you start doing the maths:

The regression line is over 16 days, starting at 87 bugs to 81 total bugs (estimating 6 cleared overall)
Therefore number of bugs overall cleared per day = 6/16 = 0.375
Therefore an estimate to clear the remaining 81 bugs = 81 / 0.375 = 216 days

ie. to clear all the blockers will take OVER 7 MONTHS 

Admittedly this comes with caveats, but until CIG release more info then this is all we have to go on right now.

[Serendipity]

The loan does seem to be a strange thing to do I suppose, hastily fluctuating currency markets or not but I'm not an expert in international business finance.

Let's see how long they last. 4 million is what, at most, 2 months operating costs? If they're still here in January then I think we can assume it wasn't a desperate bid to survive but just a way to save a little cash.

Time will tell.

[Serendipity]

and the other saved/s money on currency conversion.

That is a complete lie.  Currency conversion is very, very cheap and certainly not more costly that the interest incurred on their loan for said currency conversion.

I don't know. Bank of England base rate is at record low levels, just 0.25%, so with the HUGE amount of collateral offered they may well of gotten less than a single percent interest rate on the loan.