Star Citizen - The E.L.E.

[dsmart]

Meanwhile over there

People have spent a ridiculous amount of money on this game, some spent as much as the cost of a brand new car, this is an incredible level of support and commitment, it is hard to comprehend if you really think about it, even those that spent "just" hundreds of dollars gave this company many times what any other game company would have gotten from an individual for a single title ... and you know what all those people got in return for their generosity and trust? Yeah. Nobody has a problem funding the game, people have proven this many times over with this project, if we saw good work, real progress, honesty, respect and good business practices from the company, if we saw that our money is being used in a competent way ... we would gladly throw more money into the project, but this just isnt whats been going on and many backers are a bit unhappy at this point. Maybe CIG thought that the stream of money would never dry up, maybe they thought that there will always be more chumps with fresh wallets, maybe they didnt think at all, I dont know, but at this point if they sink the game ... its on them, because we did our part and gave them plenty of time and money to do it right, at least to get it to the point where giving them more money doesnt seem like a total waste.

[nightfire]

Meanwhile over there

This on the RSI forum? How come they tolerate such heretic discussions in their own church?

[Flashwit]

Interesting indeed. I read the whole page that that post was on and there's a lot of discontent there. I'm surprised that it has basically reached the same levels as r/starcitizen. There was really just a single defender on that whole page.

[dsmart]

Interesting indeed. I read the whole page that that post was on and there's a lot of discontent there. I'm surprised that it has basically reached the same levels as r/starcitizen. There was really just a single defender on that whole page.

Yeah, the dissent is getting louder; though I don't know how that translates to anything. Also the 2.6.1 patch was basically a resounding thud. Can't wait to see what they release in the schedule this Friday.

[Stan]

I like this guy from Meanwhile over there

"Rumple
Rumplestilskin   Posted: February 20
Edited: February 20 by Rumplestilskin
So many angry people. I've not been here long, but I have achieved concierge several times over already. I understand that by being relatively new to this project, I will not have the same fatigue from the long wait as many of you. I am sympathetic. But here are my thoughts, being the new eyes looking a things, but also having invested a down payment on a house already.

Yes, the end of the year was a complete disaster. From the delay of 2.6/3.0/SQ42 to the horribly managed holiday stream. However, in the time since then I have noticed many small tells that it seems people aren't seeing that make me feel all of this is much closer to done than we all think, and they will surprise the crap out of us one day with "3.0 in PTU" way before we expect it.

Why do I think this? One example, I read the interview with Chris' brother last night after work. (http://wccftech.com/star-citizen-exclusive-interview-erin-roberts/) He dropped a few things, unconsciously or not. It sounds to me like there is one more technical hurdle for 3.0, then it's basically just filling in the content. And perhaps I am letting my optimism read into it for me, but perhaps go read it, looking for what I am talking about, and see what you think.

And even if I am wrong, every time some small thing gets done, I take it as a sign that they are making progress, however small. That keeps the fires of hope and anticipation burning for me.

Something else I find distressing is that despite no matter how many times the concept of prioritization is explained, people still ignore it. There are many things wrong with the parts of the game we currently have, yes. However, many of them if corrected, would only have to be reworked again later due to some other change going after. Or, the fix for them needs some other change, which is still in line to get done. Do you know how angry it makes me to have to circle the desk at the Olisar ship deck in order to find a terminal that works? But, I know that it's a few seconds of annoyance, it will get fixed eventually, and it's not nearly important as many of the other things being worked on.

And some of you will call me a fan boy. And perhaps I am, even after only this short time. I am also not thinking with feelings of frustration and anger. I am attempting to look at the situation, use the limited information I have, and reach an assessment.

I still reach the same one in my mind. Things are progressing, things are getting done. It may be running behind, but it's not over.

And I am not yet ready to give up.

This is not meant to encourage anyone to contribute more. I firmly believe that is a personal decision. But I do encourage all of you who got caught up in this project to remember why. Think about how you felt about the idea of the game. About how you felt when you got into your first ship and shot up some pirates. Now hold onto that inspiration a little longer.

Don't let go until you stop seeing things happen. That's when it's time to form up the rebel army and storm the castle with torches and pitchforks.

Just my two pennies, don't spend it all in one place,

R"

[dsmart]

Wow this thread. It's like the precursor to the E.L.E.



Also, here is a new contender

Feeling angry and annoyed everytime i play SC

Its maybe the only one with that feeling. I can take that. But im been honest, everytime i play SC since 1.6 (when they started to migrate to google servers) my levels of angry and annoyance hit records. I'm not pretending they to release 3.0, SQ42 or anything, but look at what we have now...lots of ships, thats true. But gamepaly wise, content wise, technically...ive never played an early access for that long been so messy.

I understand the scope, theyre pretending to make the biggest most ambitious project ever done in the videogame industry, ok im not arguing with that. But what we have now? what are the foundations? are we really demanding the BDSSE with these foundations?

When you release an FPS shooter 2 years delayed, and its the most mediocre, not fun, buggy, laggy mess ever a big budget company has produced, you don't really have good foundations. When youre changing the flight model since the very first day because you don't know yet what you want to be, you don't have good foundations, when youre balancing one time and another, patch after patch, getting more and more far from been balanced after 2 years you don't have a good foundation, all that with an exponentially more complex and messy code that multiplies bugs and techincal troubles. Can we expect a BDSSE wiht those dirty foundations?

Forget about 3.0, planetary stuff, SQ42 and everything its not playable now, im not going there, i don't even want that till they are 100% sure its fun, playable, enjoyable, and techincally acceptable. I don't want it.

Think about what we have now, and think about that been in development for about 4 years, with 2 years actively played by the comunity with lots of feedback. And now ask to yourself, is this acceptable?

Don't take me wrong, i want the project to be released as soon as posible and i want it to be a damn good game, and thats why im not asking for 3.0, SQ42 release date or more ships, ive learned to not expect new things from CIG the ahrd way, and im fine with that, lets focus on the game we play every day. I just want an acceptable game with the poor content we have now, im not asking for the moon, given that theyve been developing this part of the game 4 years and 2 been public alpha...

You can't make the most ambitious project ever, with a softy, tender community, been always gratefull, and patient. The foundations are a mess, and they are still changing pretty basic ground things as it was they first year of development.

Why they keep selling and making new ships? Do we really need more ships? at this rate they will ahve to remodel 20 ships per year to keep up with everything else, more work, more money wasted, and more shit to sell.

And whats wrong with the servers? why theyre always under stress? are they investing in server side? can't we expect a good server support from a hundred million dollar game funded by the backers???? is that begging for too much???

[dsmart]

I like this guy from Meanwhile over there

"Rumple
Rumplestilskin   Posted: February 20
Edited: February 20 by Rumplestilskin

His post makes sense, since he is one of those who just splurged $15K on a Completionist less than 24hrs ago.

[dsmart]

He paid $60 bux; then put in for a refund shortly thereafter.

[Narrenbart]

Wow this thread. It's like the precursor to the E.L.E.



Also, here is a new contender

Feeling angry and annoyed everytime i play SC

Its maybe the only one with that feeling. I can take that. But im been honest, everytime i play SC since 1.6 (when they started to migrate to google servers) my levels of angry and annoyance hit records. I'm not pretending they to release 3.0, SQ42 or anything, but look at what we have now...lots of ships, thats true. But gamepaly wise, content wise, technically...ive never played an early access for that long been so messy.

I understand the scope, theyre pretending to make the biggest most ambitious project ever done in the videogame industry, ok im not arguing with that. But what we have now? what are the foundations? are we really demanding the BDSSE with these foundations?

When you release an FPS shooter 2 years delayed, and its the most mediocre, not fun, buggy, laggy mess ever a big budget company has produced, you don't really have good foundations. When youre changing the flight model since the very first day because you don't know yet what you want to be, you don't have good foundations, when youre balancing one time and another, patch after patch, getting more and more far from been balanced after 2 years you don't have a good foundation, all that with an exponentially more complex and messy code that multiplies bugs and techincal troubles. Can we expect a BDSSE wiht those dirty foundations?

Forget about 3.0, planetary stuff, SQ42 and everything its not playable now, im not going there, i don't even want that till they are 100% sure its fun, playable, enjoyable, and techincally acceptable. I don't want it.

Think about what we have now, and think about that been in development for about 4 years, with 2 years actively played by the comunity with lots of feedback. And now ask to yourself, is this acceptable?

Don't take me wrong, i want the project to be released as soon as posible and i want it to be a damn good game, and thats why im not asking for 3.0, SQ42 release date or more ships, ive learned to not expect new things from CIG the ahrd way, and im fine with that, lets focus on the game we play every day. I just want an acceptable game with the poor content we have now, im not asking for the moon, given that theyve been developing this part of the game 4 years and 2 been public alpha...

You can't make the most ambitious project ever, with a softy, tender community, been always gratefull, and patient. The foundations are a mess, and they are still changing pretty basic ground things as it was they first year of development.

Why they keep selling and making new ships? Do we really need more ships? at this rate they will ahve to remodel 20 ships per year to keep up with everything else, more work, more money wasted, and more shit to sell.

And whats wrong with the servers? why theyre always under stress? are they investing in server side? can't we expect a good server support from a hundred million dollar game funded by the backers???? is that begging for too much???

A quick humble word on balancing ...
Why the hell are they even bother to try to balance a game where not all relevant gameplay elements are implemented??
Tell your community .. "hey not everything is in the game it makes absolutly no sense in balancing cause it will change" is 1000 times better than to fuck up the system and min maxing variables without any concept that will make your customers angry (missles to strong, turrets to weak, etc ...).
Why aren't they just concentrate on a good, fast and fun flight system ... but I guess they messed up the engine, so fast is out of range without having heavy collider issues.
Instead of fun and fast they will produce a slow and boring system with the excuse of "immersion" when a paper plane could fly faster than the SC spaceships.

Wasted founds ... but the backers will nev ... oh wait they know but they are OK with it because only CIG is understanding game development (and has ever since it has been a little girl)

[dsmart]

Ah yeah, those were simpler times. Back when the dreams were flowing uninterrupted.

Bookmark the next 3 months - March 2016 (Edited April 2016)

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the next 3 months leading up to July are going to be memorable in the development timeline of Star Citizen and the PU. Something we'll look back on and think 'yeah, that was when it started to realise it's potential'.

I believe we are going to start seeing S42 assets and development released into the baby pu over the next 3 months: shopping, FPS aboard the Starfarer, planetary landing (bit of a game changer that one), new locations, female characters, currency and more. I'm excited.

Check out 10 for the Erin, specifically at 16:08:

Edit: the latest dev report as of 10th April 2016:

Extracts from CIG dev announcements re shopping:

Development

The major focus during the month of March here in Austin has been Shopping!

By this I do not mean that we all went to the mall together to pick up the hottest fashion trends, but rather we focused on driving the features to completion that are required to get the shop environments functional for players. Lead Designer Rob Reininger has been driving various subfeatures like the Single-Item Transaction UI and flow and the shop environment item setup. Pete Mackay has been driving the pricing of all the various items that we will be selling in the shops.

This has required much coordination between our Design and Community teams in LA and our Design Director Todd Papy and Pete has handled it just swimmingly. We’re now implementing the established prices into DataForge where they will exist statically until we bring our formulaic solution online.

The items will be able to be purchased with a new currency we’ve established, internally called Alpha Currency. This currency exists for the sole purpose of testing out these prices and balancing the game, and will exist separately from UEC or REC. At any point we’ll be able to wipe Alpha Currency and start fresh if something goes awry, and this will help us nail down final pricing numbers before we go Live.

Along with the Shopping frontend comes the work being done to support the Shopping backend. The Server Team here in Austin has been setting up the ability to add/subtract Alpha Currency in game and handing it off to the UI and Design teams in the UK to use for the shopping interface and providing alpha currency rewards via completing missions.

This work is part of Persistence as a whole, which made significant progress this month. We finally integrated Persistence into our main development stream, which means we can’t go back to the way things were before and Persistence is here to stay.

Engineering

This month, it was all about shopping and figuring out the best way to give you a perfect shopping experience. This feature has many elements that required a cool collaboration between us and the other studios. Which, so far, has been a lot of fun.

We created a new AR-based shopping interface for clothes and personal weapons. Also a Catalog-based shopping system for vehicle components.

With the different types of clothes that you can buy, we had to create a tryout camera to enable the players to preview them on their character.

There was also work on a new shop inventory and layout randomizer.

[dsmart]

As is mentioned* in this Ho Lee Chit thread

Spectrum, which they just unveiled along with the horrid 2.6.1 patch from a week ago, is basically a re-skinned Discord; only horrid. And there is no way to track discussions.

So by killing the forums and migrating to Spectrum, they pretty much kill all historical records, as well as the upcoming massive dissent when backers finally figure out that SQ42 is DOA, and 3.0 is probably a Dec 2017 release - if at all.

They can't stop the signal. There is always Reddit - or my forums here, which I setup because somehow I predicted that they would do this; and that all history would be lost when CIG disappears and it all gets removed.

Basically, CIG is preparing for all out hostilities with their backers; and this appears to be part of the plan.

*

I'm not sure I want to support CIG much these days...

They haven't done much to show me they want it.

They ignored ALL the big ticket Issue Council items during the PTU; I mean there were things with hundreds of valid Contributions, video evidence, pictures added... and what does CIG do?

They fixed issues that had absolutely NO Issue Council tickets filed, at all.... yeah that Issue Council really helps... there were even some things noted in the patch notes that they "added" that players on the PTU were never even told anything about, and so thus never tested... Makes ya go. Hmmmm.... don't it? I also can't count how many changes they did to various individual ships in the PTU that were NOT included in the Patch notes! So next time they do a patch, read the patch notes, then go look for the things on the Issue Council.

Now, they're closing these Forums down.

They've disabled the "New Discussion" button for more then half the users here; so we can't make new threads anymore, but only reply to existing ones. They want to push everyone over to Spectrum, which many people here do not like. It has soooo many problems, and had soooo many Issue Council reports, its not funny. Now where are all those reports? Gone. Wiped to oblivion, because CIG closed the PTU Issue Council...

Now this Spectrum nonsense has been shoved onto us WAY before its ready.

Thats kinda a last straw for me.

I was thinking about buying a new ship with my tax refund this week...

But now I'm thinking about investing it somewhere else...

CIG has to earn my support before I invest in giving it.

[Stan]

Ah yeah, those were simpler times. Back when the dreams were flowing uninterrupted.

Bookmark the next 3 months - March 2016 (Edited April 2016)

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the next 3 months leading up to July are going to be memorable in the development timeline of Star Citizen and the PU. Something we'll look back on and think 'yeah, that was when it started to realise it's potential'.

I believe we are going to start seeing S42 assets and development released into the baby pu over the next 3 months: shopping, FPS aboard the Starfarer, planetary landing (bit of a game changer that one), new locations, female characters, currency and more. I'm excited.

Check out 10 for the Erin, specifically at 16:08:

Edit: the latest dev report as of 10th April 2016:

Extracts from CIG dev announcements re shopping:

Development

The major focus during the month of March here in Austin has been Shopping!

By this I do not mean that we all went to the mall together to pick up the hottest fashion trends, but rather we focused on driving the features to completion that are required to get the shop environments functional for players. Lead Designer Rob Reininger has been driving various subfeatures like the Single-Item Transaction UI and flow and the shop environment item setup. Pete Mackay has been driving the pricing of all the various items that we will be selling in the shops.

This has required much coordination between our Design and Community teams in LA and our Design Director Todd Papy and Pete has handled it just swimmingly. We’re now implementing the established prices into DataForge where they will exist statically until we bring our formulaic solution online.

The items will be able to be purchased with a new currency we’ve established, internally called Alpha Currency. This currency exists for the sole purpose of testing out these prices and balancing the game, and will exist separately from UEC or REC. At any point we’ll be able to wipe Alpha Currency and start fresh if something goes awry, and this will help us nail down final pricing numbers before we go Live.

Along with the Shopping frontend comes the work being done to support the Shopping backend. The Server Team here in Austin has been setting up the ability to add/subtract Alpha Currency in game and handing it off to the UI and Design teams in the UK to use for the shopping interface and providing alpha currency rewards via completing missions.

This work is part of Persistence as a whole, which made significant progress this month. We finally integrated Persistence into our main development stream, which means we can’t go back to the way things were before and Persistence is here to stay.

Engineering

This month, it was all about shopping and figuring out the best way to give you a perfect shopping experience. This feature has many elements that required a cool collaboration between us and the other studios. Which, so far, has been a lot of fun.

We created a new AR-based shopping interface for clothes and personal weapons. Also a Catalog-based shopping system for vehicle components.

With the different types of clothes that you can buy, we had to create a tryout camera to enable the players to preview them on their character.

There was also work on a new shop inventory and layout randomizer.

He needs a dose of reality.

[nightfire]

This month, it was all about shopping and figuring out the best way to give you a perfect shopping experience.

 :lol:
And this is where Sandi's expertise will finally come to its fullest effect in the game development!

This feature has many elements that required a cool collaboration between us and the other studios. Which, so far, has been a lot of fun.

Yeah, shopping tours in Frankfurt and London while "travelling to Europe to oversee development at the studios" sure can be a blast.

Also a Catalog-based shopping system for vehicle components.

Our extensive experience with Porsche dealers will finally pay off for the backers.

With the different types of clothes that you can buy, we had to create a tryout camera to enable the players to preview them on their character.

Which we will also use at home, we have so many different types of clothes now.

[Stan]

[dsmart]

Man, checkout these Reddit threads.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5w2fyf/cig_has_gotten_away_with_things_way_too_easily/

Terrible Holiday streams that ask ppl to buy more ships and hyping SQ42 up and not show it to the end which is most likely CR being far too optimistic when they couldn't resolve issues with the demo. CR knew months prior about this but didn't bother to be honest at first so it wouldn't have a impact on sales and morale. Once everyone was burn out towards the end they finally let the news out. Its rinse and repeat with the sales onwards.
So are people continuous going to reward such behavior that seem like plain cockiness if you think about the fact that they knew months ago that they would not make a release. They clearly knew the community was going let it slide no matter what because that where all the money comes from particular the hardcore ones. They probably don;t care about anyone who hasn't backed the game as much because they aren't where most of the revenue comes in. The devoted hardcore fans who can dish out more money is their primary focus and that undeniable if you think about how the average gamer can't keep buying more ships. There not pandering to the the guy who can only afford one ship anymore. Because he won't have the patient to keep waiting.
People need to admit CR is one the very reason the media has been talking bad about SC at times. It like as long as backer keep on opening their wallet its not a huge problem so what they do isn't a big deal no matter if they miss it. Makes me think it some kind of game where "probably" and 'maybe" is something CR uses to get ppl hope up until the very end when he doesn;t meet the deadline. The same thing is going to happen this year if the same event and hints happen again
Makes me wonder are ppl more interesting in work in progress than something that is fully done. Hooray let rejoice for concept ship sales. People need to be concern with the rep of SC outside of this community. Do people not get tired of jokes made about SQ42 and trolls talking about which is far worse than anything I written here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5w7tzj/yet_again_losing_shit_we_paid_for/de84wm3/

So, when they decided that the Gladiator would hold no cargo, it wasn't worth telling us until the ship was released to the hangar?
When CIG decided to strip the second seat out of the Khartu that it wasn't worth telling anyone until it was hangar ready.
Sorta like how they didn't bother telling us they wouldn't show us the S42 vertical slice until the very last minute.
This isn't accidents or incompetence, it is calculated decisions to maximize profits.
We want this game to be the BDSSE, actually now we want this game to just be the Best Damned Game Ever.
CIG needs money to do this, thats why I have over 6 grand in this game. That is why they will outright lie to us to bring in more money. It is simple good business practice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/5kp7ke/star_citizen_eyes_realtime_reflections/dbrl60j/?context=3

They have to keep funding the game from pledgers, so they have to focus on stuff that wows consumers but that isn't actually the correct order to build a game.
This is (one of the reasons) why the game is late and will eventually end up costing a vast amount more than if they'd built the same product according to the proper process.
Imagine building a house by finishing one side of the facade to 'final' quality including windows and paint, before you'd even built another exterior wall. You'd have to keep it upright with scaffold and protect it from damage and wear while building the rest of the house, or after the viewing by investors, let it fall down or intentionally demolish it and build it again at the end.
This is directly analogous to what they are doing on SC. Source: 17 years in game development.