Star Citizen General BS

[Serendipity]

The fact they haven't done it yet is not evidence they can't do it.

This isn't logic, it's faith. 

Science doesn't operate on vague hopes it works based on experimental proof & reason. So let's do the maths:

Let's assume that all the goals in the Tracker take the same amount of time and resources to create, therefore with 16% progress so far it will take CIG:

• 26 more years and...
• $787 million more in funding

I'm not saying it's impossible to do all they set out to do, plenty of other Games are doing similar things. However, based on the facts we have to hand, it would seem highly unlikely.

Holy hell that's dumb! Creating content doesn't take the same time as building the systems to run the content. They took 2 years to make SolEd. It now takes an hour to build a star system with it. They also took 2 years to build the company from nothing. Get a grip please.

It's not pure faith though is it? They told us they'd get us AC, 2.0, planet side, hangar, Star Marine and we got them all. 3.0 is just next on the list. Historical evidence of them doing what they say they will.

[Padrepapp]

3.0 won't do shit? You're serious? Seamless space to planet in cryengine isn't anything special huh? Blinded.

If you think SC isn't doing anything special then that's up to you. Derek seems to think it's impossible to do what they're doing. Space SIM fans have given 155 million dollars for this nothing special.  Each to their own I suppose.

This shows how you curve arguments all the time. I said, they haven't done anything special YET. They plan something special, but are far away from delivering it.

So their achievement so far is they made something in an engine which is not developed to do such things instead of writing their own. Nice. So next time I see someone eating soup with chopsticks and finally is done with it I should be amazed how he done that, instead of using a spoon, or maybe realizing that he could invent something more sufficent than chopsticks.

[Knight Solaire]

You think a company should stop generating sales? Do you realise how daft that sounds? They need a regular income to be a viable business. Without income they don't get rental leases or other lines of credit, with suppliers for example. Any company in the world that is making money will continue to do what is making them money. This is the real world and you don't stop selling as long as people aren't stopping buying.

Who's daft? By your logic every game maker would be selling promises 5+ years before their games come out because they couldn't possibly pay their bills any other way. But that's not true. Plenty of games get made through self funding, publishers, private investors, etc., and then are only sold to end users once their is an actual finished product to sell.

Chris has said that having a publisher would stifle his creativity by forcing him to adhere to a budget and a deadline. But in reality it would only stifle his greed.

[N0mad]

Creating content doesn't take the same time as building the systems to run the content. They took 2 years to make SolEd. It now takes an hour to build a star system with it.

That's a reasonable assumption to make, but this is CIG - it takes them ages to create content. Creating a ship takes a team months to do - and that's just a small ship. If the SolEd editor makes it so easy to make these systems (and yes I've seen the dev interview and demo) then where are all these planets? - they certainly aren't going to be in 3.0

Besides, they still seem to making the systems to run the content - you'd think they would have managed that after 5 years.

But, OK, let's accept your argument - then the tracker should start showing an acceleration in development, as content is rapidly added. However, just look at the graph on the Tracker. Clearly we haven't reached that point, actually, if anything it seems to have flat-lined.

[GaryII]

Delays don't mean they lied or are incompetent. It's game development, delays are standard.

  Yes, delays are quite common in game dev., but not delays by several years and every deadline missed...   

  If delays are that long - project has severe issues in case of SC - crazy feature creep -> never done before  :lol:
 lack of planning (all those refactorings...)

 btw after watching "Burndown" is quite clear that v3.0 is no where ready (Derek was right!) probably several months away, so release in December is very real...

[Serendipity]

3.0 won't do shit? You're serious? Seamless space to planet in cryengine isn't anything special huh? Blinded.

If you think SC isn't doing anything special then that's up to you. Derek seems to think it's impossible to do what they're doing. Space SIM fans have given 155 million dollars for this nothing special.  Each to their own I suppose.

This shows how you curve arguments all the time. I said, they haven't done anything special YET. They plan something special, but are far away from delivering it.

So their achievement so far is they made something in an engine which is not developed to do such things instead of writing their own. Nice. So next time I see someone eating soup with chopsticks and finally is done with it I should be amazed how he done that, instead of using a spoon, or maybe realizing that he could invent something more sufficent than chopsticks.

I could easily argue that a cryengine map millions of kilometres wide that you can travel through seamlessly is a little bit special. Nobody has done it before at least, but fair enough, apart from that there's nothing special about what's currently available.

Please no more stupid analogies, he chose cryengine for its visuals and then spent years tweaking it to do what he wants. He's got massive maps and will soon have seamless planetary bodies to land on explore, (yes I believe what's in the videos will make it to my SSD eventually), so he'll have made an engine that does what he wants and looks how he wants. Great.

You think a company should stop generating sales? Do you realise how daft that sounds? They need a regular income to be a viable business. Without income they don't get rental leases or other lines of credit, with suppliers for example. Any company in the world that is making money will continue to do what is making them money. This is the real world and you don't stop selling as long as people aren't stopping buying.

Who's daft? By your logic every game maker would be selling promises 5+ years before their games come out because they couldn't possibly pay their bills any other way. But that's not true. Plenty of games get made through self funding, publishers, private investors, etc., and then are only sold to end users once their is an actual finished product to sell.

Chris has said that having a publisher would stifle his creativity by forcing him to adhere to a budget and a deadline. But in reality it would only stifle his greed.

Everyone who bought in knew and knows the state of the project. It explains on the sale pages. Refunds are given if requested. I don't see a problem. If they sold a finished game then yeah, problem, but it's clearly stated all over the place that it's an alpha. The buyer has a choice to become a buyer with that knowledge or to not become a buyer.

Creating content doesn't take the same time as building the systems to run the content. They took 2 years to make SolEd. It now takes an hour to build a star system with it.

That's a reasonable assumption to make, but this is CIG - it takes them ages to create content. Creating a ship takes a team months to do - and that's just a small ship. If the SolEd editor makes it so easy to make these systems (and yes I've seen the dev interview and demo) then where are all these planets? - they certainly aren't going to be in 3.0

Besides, they still seem to making the systems to run the content - you'd think they would have managed that after 5 years.

But, OK, let's accept your argument - then the tracker should start showing an acceleration in development, as content is rapidly added. However, just look at the graph on the Tracker. Clearly we haven't reached that point, actually, if anything it seems to have flat-lined.

It's taken 4 years to get to 3.0. (I've taken a year off for company building), I'd bet a reasonable sum of cash that we get 4.0 and a beta product much earlier than another 4 years.

[N0mad]

If there is a game out there that does all the things 3.0 will bring then please let me know. I'm pretty sure non exists yet.

A game that looks beautiful and I can go from FPS to ship to station, walk around in station, get back in my ship, fly seamlessly to a planetary body and land, do more on foot stuff, PvP or PvE, rinse and repeat.

That's what is new. The whole caboodle, nothing in and of itself but the glorious whole.

I've found your new favourite Game Serendipity: The 1.3 update of No Man's Sky:

• 30 hours of new story content
• Economies & Trading
• Planetary biomes
• Crashed freighters & salvage missions
• Dynamically generated missions
• Reputation with NPC guilds
• Improved dogfighting in space and atmosphere
• VOIP with other players

So what's so special about Star Citizen?

[Serendipity]

If there is a game out there that does all the things 3.0 will bring then please let me know. I'm pretty sure non exists yet.

A game that looks beautiful and I can go from FPS to ship to station, walk around in station, get back in my ship, fly seamlessly to a planetary body and land, do more on foot stuff, PvP or PvE, rinse and repeat.

That's what is new. The whole caboodle, nothing in and of itself but the glorious whole.

I've found your new favourite Game Serendipity: The 1.3 update of No Man's Sky:

• 30 hours of new story content
• Economies & Trading
• Planetary biomes
• Crashed freighters & salvage missions
• Dynamically generated missions
• Reputation with NPC guilds
• Improved dogfighting in space and atmosphere
• VOIP with other players

So what's so special about Star Citizen?

I'm not here to argue Star Citizen is the best thing ever. I'm here to argue it's pretty cool and should be fun and probably will be completed to a level that most will find acceptable.

Great for NMS to have brought the game up to where a lot of people thought it should have been from the start.

Of course the graphics of NMS don't really stand comparison to SC and let's be serious for a second, neither does the FPS or space flight battles either really, but congrats to them. Maybe I'll buy it now, not sure. Nearly did originally and it seems I was right to wait.

You see, I don't blindly go buying stuff but asses each project on it's own merits. I'm a backer of Dual Universe and Battle whatsy infinity thing as well as a proud owner of Angels fall first, Kerbal, Hellion, Space Engineers and Elite Dangerous.

None of them are as appealing, to me, as what I believe SC will become in time but it doesn't stop me playing them.

[Motto]

The thing with Serendipity is that he refuses to see the big(ger) picture. I will make 2.0. I will release a patch. See. Chris did what he said he will do. So, I will make 3.0 means 3.0 will come. Now Chris also said he will make the BDSSE. See, he is going from 2.0 to 3.0 so just wait and see how that in the next steps will evolve in the BDSSE. Just like he said.

Now, Chris said he would do do A, B, C, D, E and F-Z. A and B are there, but barely functioning, C is rumored about to be released but as crappy as hell, D is totally faulty, E hasn't been seen or heard from since a democlip 2 years ago and F-Z are mere fantasies at the moment. Now the true believers like Serendipity say, see they said A couldn't be done, but there it is. And see, they said B couldn't be done, but here it is. So just wait untill they prove C too, and then D, E, F-Z, they all will follow.

Now the realists say, but hey wait a minute! A is crap, B is crap and C is still not here yet, so WTF is happening? Besides, it's nice to see A and B working on a very small island where 1 person is surviving his sunken boat, but it's supposed to work all over the entire world. That's a long way to go. And oh yes, that long way to go should have been completed 3 years ago, with everything including A-Z.

Now now, there they're their, hush little baby don't you cry, they're trying to do something not done before so it might take longer, but look, A and B prove they can do it. So you just wait and see, and keep giving them money or they might not complete what they said they would

But, but, WTF! They should be ready by now with everything they said they would, for half the price at that too. Why the fuck do they still need my money? Where the fuck is that game? Why the fuck do they keep selling things that might not even make it to the game when the fucking game itself doesn't excist? Why are they selling stuff that can't be working in the game for at least a couple of years? Why do they think that as long as they are working on it, they're safe? They're not! I pre-ordered a game. If they don't deliver, they have to pay me back. But they can't pay me back because they spend the money on making the game. Nonetheless, they owe me. A game, or the money. Not, whoopsie, money gone, no game yet. Sorry, nuttin' to do about that.

[N0mad]

None of them are as appealing, to me, as what I believe SC will become in time

That sort of sums it up. All the things promised by SC at the start: going from first person to ship, walking around planets and stations. Exploring, being a pirate, fighting, trading etc. Nobody was even talking about that stuff at the time. But here we are 5 years later and all these things are being done in other games (admittedly in different ways), but those aren't good enough for you (and sometimes they aren't that good).

You believe SC will be better than these games - the ones you can actually play - based on what? Dreams and vague promises from Chris Roberts?

[nightfire]

Guys, this is going nowhere.

Scroll back a couple of pages (and then, a couple of pages before that, and so on). Same old mantras by Serendipity, same well-meaning attempts to refute them,  same ignorance, deflection, recital of assertions debunked time and again in response. Lots of disbelief and head-shaking, another last-ditch effort by someone else to pull him out of his DreamVerse and back into reality, and there go the same old mantras again. Rinse and repeat.

Derek is right: this is a forum where nobody gets yelled down. But right now, I feel like we’re slowly drowning in cultist Goodthink, which more or less results in the same effect for me. Over the last dozen of pages or so, it has become increasingly difficult to wade through the haystack and find the few good critical needles, as fresh hay is now constantly being piled upon us.

[Motto]

There is one thing different now though.... we're not discussing with Serendipity anymore, we're discussing about Serendipity

[Serendipity]

None of them are as appealing, to me, as what I believe SC will become in time

That sort of sums it up. All the things promised by SC at the start: going from first person to ship, walking around planets and stations. Exploring, being a pirate, fighting, trading etc. Nobody was even talking about that stuff at the time. But here we are 5 years later and all these things are being done in other games (admittedly in different ways), but those aren't good enough for you (and sometimes they aren't that good).

You believe SC will be better than these games - the ones you can actually play - based on what? Dreams and vague promises from Chris Roberts?

Based on what I can play right now. It might be buggy and small and lacking features but I get where they want to go and I like it. The FPS is basic and needs better netcode but I enjoy it. The flying ships around bit is fun and exhilarating for me. Others disagree and that's fine. I've been playing video games for almost as long as they've existed and I trust myself. SC is exciting. I'm sure some of y'all have a long history of gaming too and you feel different, that's ok.

I'm not trying to drown anyone, I'm on my own and I'm sure you're all big boys and/or girls who can look after themselves. Use me as target practice, shoot me down.

[nightfire]

You believe SC will be better than these games - the ones you can actually play - based on what? Dreams and vague promises from Chris Roberts?

Based on what I can play right now. It might be buggy and small and lacking features but I get where they want to go and I like it. The FPS is basic and needs better netcode but I enjoy it. The flying ships around bit is fun and exhilarating for me. Others disagree and that's fine. I've been playing video games for almost as long as they've existed and I trust myself. SC is exciting. I'm sure some of y'all have a long history of gaming too and you feel different, that's ok.

I'm not trying to drown anyone, I'm on my own and I'm sure you're all big boys and/or girls who can look after themselves. Use me as target practice, shoot me down.

Let me get this straight:

I believe that I can climb Mount Everest.

Based on what? Dreams?

Based on the walks in the city park I’m doing right now. The city park might be small and lacking rocks, ice and any kind of alpine features, but I know where I want to go from here. My mountaineering skills are basic and I’ll need better shoes and equipment, but I enjoy the worn-out sneakers I currently have. I know that it will take a lot of stuff and money to build the tools and lay the foundations to reach the top of Mount Everest, but even though I spent the money my parents gave me on new doors and fancy stuff for my apartment, I’m sure I will get there. I hope that my parents will be patient and trustful enough to pledge some more money for my cause.

Others disagree that I’ll be able to climb Mount Everest and that’s fine. I’ve been walking around in city parks for almost as long as they’ve existed and I trust myself. Mount Everest is exciting. I’m sure some of you feel different about the chance that I will make it to the summit, that’s ok.

NOTE: Nothing of the above shall be interpreted as „evidence“ that I won’t be able to climb Mount Everest. I’ve never done anything like that before and I’ve barely ventured beyond the city limits in my life, but just because something hasn’t been done yet, doesn’t mean that it’s impossible. Also, my stupid neighbor Fred hasn’t managed to climb Mount Everest yet either, even though he constantly makes fun of my sneakers. So there.

Anything sound familiar here?

[Spunky Munkee]

I have read a few pages back.
Any conversation with you goes round in circles.


I am sure we will continue to find every flaw, lie, and shady business practice associated with what has arguably become the largest crowdfunded failure in history.
Please don't claim that the fact that they have raised lots of money is evidence of success. It is evidence of a full press media blitz across the internet and a cult of personality. A good and enjoyable completed game in the time frame they provided would be evidence of success. That has not happened. I distinctly remember last summer seeing several videos from disgruntled cultists. They were do deflated. They were led to believe that 3.0 would debut and all they got was some demo video with a stolen sand worm promising that this is what they would get. They got nothing, even a year later though the feature list has become much shorter despite all the claims of Roberts with his promised feature creep.

It's so strange. Roberts would continually make his list of features in the game longer and longer and now that its time to deliver, or actually now that he is way late to deliver anything his ambitions seem to have shrunk appreciably. Interesting. There is no scam here. Not here. This is a business and all these problems.... they were unforeseen.   That's right, unforeseen. It was the goons fault for driving of backers, and that evil goblin Derek Smart.  What a terrible person. He lied and turned my backers, MY BACKERS against me! HOW DARE HE!

I can hear it now off in the distance.
The words of a small man with his dreams of empire crumbling around him.
His failure is proof there is a sort of cosmic justice.
In the meanwhile nearly every You Tube advertisement will get trolled as it deserves. People should be forewarned of what a mess they might buy into.