Star Citizen General BS

[dsmart]

Yikes. I must have missed that. I wonder how many refunded.

[Knight Solaire]

Hey, everyone. I've been a lurker in here for some time and have enjoyed the discussion.

Here's a question for Derek: Most of the concern about the project in here has been about money and whether CIG can maintain the pace of funding for their large staff and its monthly burn rate. Aside from that, I've read interviews with lead designers on other AAA projects and most of them have said that keeping any big project to a 3-4 year cycle is key. Going much past that it becomes difficult to keep pushing the team to do great work. People lose focus, get burned out and turnover becomes more and more of an issue.

Do you agree with this and do you think the extended time in development on SC and all the pressures associated with that are impacting them?

[dsmart]

Hey, everyone. I've been a lurker in here for some time and have enjoyed the discussion.

Here's a question for Derek: Most of the concern about the project in here has been about money and whether CIG can maintain the pace of funding for their large staff and its monthly burn rate. Aside from that, I've read interviews with lead designers on other AAA projects and most of them have said that keeping any big project to a 3-4 year cycle is key. Going much past that it becomes difficult to keep pushing the team to do great work. People lose focus, get burned out and turnover becomes more and more of an issue.

Do you agree with this and do you think the extended time in development on SC and all the pressures associated with that are impacting them?

Hey man, welcome to the place where you can't get down voted or yelled at. 

Yeah, I agree with that completely. Not only because there is anecdotal evidence to support the notion, but also because burnout is a real threat to any project, whether or not it is a gaming one.

Even Chris himself posited about this back on Oct 19, 2012

You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?

Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.

However, running out of money, and burnout, are two different things entirely. Even if backers continued to pour money into this train wreck, the fact that top notch people keep leaving, has a lot to do with seeking out better opportunities, burn out, as well as not want to be part of what is now highly regarded as an on-going scam against gamers.

[Knight Solaire]

Even Chris himself posited about this back on Oct 19, 2012

I think anyone thinking of investing in SC should be required to read this interview and then ask themselves if there is anything about it that has come true. Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it. And it set the stage for all the BS that has come about since then.

[dsmart]

Even Chris himself posited about this back on Oct 19, 2012

I think anyone thinking of investing in SC should be required to read this interview and then ask themselves if there is anything about it that has come true. Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it. And it set the stage for all the BS that has come about since then.

See, here's the thing. They've all read these statements over the years. And even though we bring them up time and time again, the True Believers tend to just ignore them. Which is why we just lol at those guys now, when they're feigning outrage that they've been scammed.

Just wait, the worst is yet to come. And they're completely unprepared.

[Motto]

Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.

Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.

Now, at some point Chris realised he was fucked. Can't stop due to legal ramifications, so need to continue in hope of finishing something and not violating any Kickstarter rules or consumer laws. And that's where it's going wrong now.

[dsmart]

Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.

Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.

Now, at some point Chris realised he was fucked. Can't stop due to legal ramifications, so need to continue in hope of finishing something and not violating any Kickstarter rules or consumer laws. And that's where it's going wrong now.

Yeah. Problem is that he's dug himself into a very deep hole because he simply cannot deliver the game promised. There's no solving that problem.

[StanTheMan]

Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.

Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.

Now, at some point Chris realised he was fucked. Can't stop due to legal ramifications, so need to continue in hope of finishing something and not violating any Kickstarter rules or consumer laws. And that's where it's going wrong now.

Even if this was the case, he could have built the kickstarter ++ then used the rest of the cash to pretty much start again and build the better bigger game.

Of the top of my head, I would have thought you could have effectively done away almost entirely with SC 1.0 and developed SC 2.0, selling the whole thing as .. well SC 1.0 was a proof of concept and 2.0 is the real deal.

I dont think he cares too much for the rules.  He has had to be forced to do refunds and he thought it was wise to end up in court with Kevin C.   

[Knight Solaire]

Clearly CRoberts was just talking out his ass the whole time and had no real plan to do any of it.

Honestly, I doubt that. I do think that Chris actually was planning on building the game he envisioned. The positive response most likely overwhelmed him and the sheer volume of money being given made him think it was doable too. If you just throw enough money at something, it always succeeds, right? And from there on, it went wrong. Simply because Chris isn't the man to do this. He is utterly incapable. If he had had a second in command that actually would have been able (and allowed) to bring him back to earth constantly, it might have worked. But rather, he chose his wife to give all that money to.

Now, at some point Chris realised he was fucked. Can't stop due to legal ramifications, so need to continue in hope of finishing something and not violating any Kickstarter rules or consumer laws. And that's where it's going wrong now.

I mistyped there. What I meant to say is he had no real plan on HOW to do any of it. I agree that he had the desire to make a great game at this early stage. He just has a terrible habit of talking about concepts from his mind (things he think would be cool) as if they are already in the game or on the drawing board when in reality he has no idea how or if they would work. This is something he's done repeatedly in interviews and TftC videos.

[dsmart]

Even if this was the case, he could have built the kickstarter ++ then used the rest of the cash to pretty much start again and build the better bigger game.

Right. But the problem with that is once released, there is no guarantee that the game would have been received well. Then they would have received $6M and have an uphill battle convincing backers that they had delivered the BDSSE, and needed to raise more for a sequel of sorts.

So once they figured out that making lofty promises based on dreams will continue to secure funding, there was no longer the incentive to take the risk and ship anything which wouldn't be received well enough to keep funding going.

Look at this this way. If you take away the PU, leaving only the other current components, then add a hatched together mission based SQ42 based on those components, do you see a $156M game?

That's the conundrum. And like all scams, it's brilliant if you ask me. Especially when you consider the fact that they figured out that they had tapped into a number of backers who would continue along for the ride. Normally those are the guys who buy DLC for games. In this regard, they got them to pre-purchase DLC for a game that doesn't yet exist, and by all accounts, probably never will.

[Spunky Munkee]

https://twitter.com/DennisACrow/status/894270847560499200

So Dennis Crow who used to work for TT Fusion (where Erin Roberts used to work), has joined the LA studio as a snr producer. His last credits at TT Fusion was as online producer for Lego Star Wars.

He is a snr producer who doesn't do anything with game design or things like that. He just manages the direction of certain aspects of the development in terms of schedules, teams etc.

The question backers should be asking is why they need another producer in LA.


According to LinkedIn, he left Rockstar back in 2015 to found his own company, AWOL Game, which is now defunct. That doesn't seem to have worked out so well, so he joined CIG to go make Star Citizen. I don't think it's fair to knock the guy, a paycheck for a few months, is still a pay check.



This normally wouldn't be important, except for the fact that backers seem to think this is somehow a big deal.

Since Backers seem to believe that things are just fine, it's simply a slight delay for polishing as Croberts always claims then why do they "crow" about Croberts hiring this new Producer to take control?
If there is nothing really wrong, couldn't we simply hire the janitor, or a washed up highly questionable actress to do the job if it is all the same?

[Knight Solaire]

This guy isn’t taking control of anything. If he hadn’t tweeted about it no one would ever have known he worked there.

But, hey, at least the backers got to see a nice pic of what their money’s been spent on ::cough cough:: $10,000 door ::cough cough::  :doh:

[helimoth]

But, hey, at least the backers got to see a nice pic of what their money’s been spent on ::cough cough:: $10,000 door ::cough cough::  :doh:

I bet we're gonna discover the door was the tip of the iceberg when all the details come to light about how that money has been spent.

[Serendipity]

We're going round in circles with the release date thing and it's tiring. Let's stop. However I would just like to point out that

Dear god, you're stupid  :doh:

is name calling and I've been banned for less. Stop being mean you meanie. Also, I'm not stupid.

BTW, that's the second time you didn't answer my question. Please complete the following sentence at the dots:

I, Serendipity, will say that Derek was right when...............

Is that simple enough now?

Derek has been right before now about some little, inconsequential things. I will admit he's right about the big predictions, (meaning his constant bleating about being out of money and that the game can't be made), when CIG collapse and disappear without releasing 2 games that resemble what they've laid out they're making.

Now we could start discussing how he used 'current tech' 'as pitched' and 'unless they have money, time and expertise' as get out clauses but that's not really worth it. He'll claim he was right whatever happens.

They release a great pair of games that are critically acclaimed and sell well, it's not technology from 2015 and they managed to scrape together the tech to make it work but it's all smoke and mirrors...

They release a pair of games without some minor feature and it's not 'as pitched'.

The only way I'll admit Derek was right, and I'm talking about the big predictions, not the name of a secret ship or some staff leaving or whatever, is when CIG collapse through financial mismanagement or the games they make are an anorexic shadow of what has been described. Until then, he's being made to look more and more wrong every day they don't collapse. Those damn analytics! If only they weren't open to being skewed by hyperbole...

I'm really looking forward to reading his Gamescom predictions. Hopefully he doesn't release them too early and allow CIG to change it all to spite him again.

[Serendipity]

This guy isn’t taking control of anything. If he hadn’t tweeted about it no one would ever have known he worked there.

But, hey, at least the backers got to see a nice pic of what their money’s been spent on ::cough cough:: $10,000 door ::cough cough::  :doh:

Yes. It definitely cost 10 THOUSAND dollars. No seriously. It did. A door. Yeah, it opens automatically you see. Some MDF that's been painted. Yeah. Costs a fortune that stuff. Definitely 10 GRAND.