Star Citizen General BS

[Serendipity]

Well there's a question answered in his reply tweets. Nice one Derek. Seamless transitions from space to moon, confirmed. That's pretty special in cryengine looking as good as it does.

Really looking forward to 3.0 now. Should be amazing.

[dsmart]

Well there's a question answered in his reply tweets. Nice one Derek. Seamless transitions from space to moon, confirmed.

Yeah, his write-up wasn't very clear. That's why I asked him a follow-up question.

https://twitter.com/screencuisine/status/888635298833285120

He says he flew to both Daymar and an asteroid (I assume Delamar which has Levski landing zone).

I for one think it's a huge mistake for them to have it in the same scene because it's going to continue being a huge performance (streaming isn't going to solve that) hog, forcing them to change it at some point. Which leads me to believe that it was done this way probably for the review and to keep up the hype leading to GamesCon.

And until we can play it, there is still no way to tell how (which doesn't matter, as long as it works) they are handling the transition from space to the moon. It could be a "streamed" loading like ED when you are within proximity of the moon.

And if performance wasn't an issue, they'd have made Crusader a standard planet (instead of gas giant), instead of moving Delamar (a planetoid) from Nyx to Stanton in order to have barren moons which have less performance requirements than a full blown planet with more topological features.

That's pretty special in cryengine looking as good as it does.

I don't know why it's "special" though. It's just another object in a CryEngine scene (as seen from the AtV videos). The debate has always been about whether or not they would keep it in the scene as-is (like the stations), or load it separately (like AC, Star Marine, ArcCorp) as its own level for performance reasons. And LumberYard has asset streaming built-in.

That they are still in pre-alpha, and it took them 5 years to get planetary scenes in a space game, even after touting it since 2015, is what's amazing. Not to mention the fact that they are still playing catch-up with that sort of thing anyway, as it's not revolutionary anymore.

Anyone who thinks 3.0 is going to be anything other than a milestone like 2.0 (2015) or 2.6 (Star Marine) is an idiot. It will get released in some fashion, backers will see that it's just another check mark in the list of promises, then forget about it after a week due to the repetitive "missions" in it. That's if performance issues allow even most of them to actually "play" it.

My stance on this planetary transition issue has been pretty consistent:

17-07-19 // performance issues in 3.0, seamless transition discussion

17-07-07 // procedural moons analysis

17-06-22 // 3.0 tech nightmare & performance hog

17-05-15 // 3.0 seamless transition thoughts

17-04-23 // discussion of moons in 3.0

17-02-13 // discussion with procedural planets videos (from Nyx to sandworm)

16-10-29 // discussion of procedural planet generation

We also now know that they aren't doing "procedural planets" (as in Battlecruiser/Universal Combat games, No Man's Sky etc), despite touting this since 2014. Instead, they are using procedural techniques to populate the "surface" of planets and moons.

[Serendipity]

As you say, it really doesn't matter exactly how they do it as long as there's no loading screens or break from playing then they've managed to complete an important part of the puzzle.

The performance issue is interesting. Client streaming won't improve the server performance of course but aren't they using procedural tech for it? They can't keep numerous moons and their respective landing zones in memory, poor performance or otheriwse, can they? Far too big aren't they? So streaming a single procedurally generated, huge asset is possible as other games do it.

Can't wait to find out anyway. Not long now...maybe.

[dsmart]

As you say, it really doesn't matter exactly how they do it as long as there's no loading screens or break from playing then they've managed to complete an important part of the puzzle.

The performance issue is interesting. Client streaming won't improve the server performance of course but aren't they using procedural tech for it? They can't keep numerous moons and their respective landing zones in memory, poor performance or otheriwse, can they? Far too big aren't they? So streaming a single procedurally generated, huge asset is possible as other games do it.

LumberYard/CryEngine has asset streaming built-in. It's not rocket science. The issue boils down to the amount of data needing to be streamed, the performance issues (e.g. hiccups, load stuttering etc) associated with that. This is probably why they opted to do barren moons instead of planets, as the latter would be more of a performance and resource hog. Hence the reason that, instead of temporarily making Crusader a regular planet (instead of a gas giant), they opted to move Delamar, a planetoid (asteroid) from Nyx, to Stanton, thus giving them two moons and a planetoid.

In all games, regardless of the tech and the visuals, if you can't address the performance issues, it doesn't matter how good the game is, it will fail. And early this morning a source and I exchange emails (started yesterday) in which he said that much hasn't changed in terms of performance since PC Gamer played 3.0 the middle of last month. So they are still in fact having performance issues in 3.0. What's left to be seen is if they release it to Evocati as is, or take drastic (e.g. loading the planets separately) to fix that.

Some people keep forgetting that this is NOT a single-player game. So it has a lot of hurdles to climb in order to make it work properly in a multiplayer environment.

[Motto]

The big question is if they will release anything before the next big show-off. Since they never can live up to the expectations of the hard core idiots, any release would be yet another disappointment and thus killing a lot of income. Better to feed false news, grab all the anticipation money and then await the shitstorm. Makes you wonder if they dare to release anything between August and October for that matter.

[dsmart]

The big question is if they will release anything before the next big show-off. Since they never can live up to the expectations of the hard core idiots, any release would be yet another disappointment and thus killing a lot of income. Better to feed false news, grab all the anticipation money and then await the shitstorm. Makes you wonder if they dare to release anything between August and October for that matter.

Well they have another month to go before they have to deal with that. From what I am hearing, they're not going to be able to resolve the performance issues before then. So it remains to be seen if they will just dump it so they say they released it, then continue working on it. There are serious bugs in 2.6.3 which have been there for years. So this update is just going to add more to that pile.

I don't care what anyone says, 3.0, while a major milestone like the others before it, isn't going to mean anything in the end, let alone rescue the game from its downward spiral. The entire project is irrecoverable because they've crossed the point where they could have saved it. That was back in 2015, following 2.0.

[Meowz]

The big question is if they will release anything before the next big show-off. Since they never can live up to the expectations of the hard core idiots, any release would be yet another disappointment and thus killing a lot of income. Better to feed false news, grab all the anticipation money and then await the shitstorm. Makes you wonder if they dare to release anything between August and October for that matter.

Well they have another month to go before they have to deal with that. From what I am hearing, they're not going to be able to resolve the performance issues before then. So it remains to be seen if they will just dump it so they say they released it, then continue working on it. There are serious bugs in 2.6.3 which have been there for years. So this update is just going to add more to that pile.

I don't care what anyone says, 3.0, while a major milestone like the others before it, isn't going to mean anything in the end, let alone rescue the game from its downward spiral. The entire project is irrecoverable because they've crossed the point where they could have saved it. That was back in 2015, following 2.0.

Surely they realize this and will start doing whatever they can to salvage the project, even if it does mean reducing the majority of features promised at release which they seem to have started to do with the reduced solar systems. SQ42 as a single player game would generate at least a decent chunk of revenue if it is a fun game to play in its own. Is CR planning and preparing for a rough future, or just throwing the dice with the intent of either making some miracle breakthrough or willingly run the company into the ground?

[dsmart]

Surely they realize this and will start doing whatever they can to salvage the project, even if it does mean reducing the majority of features promised at release which they seem to have started to do with the reduced solar systems. SQ42 as a single player game would generate at least a decent chunk of revenue if it is a fun game to play in its own. Is CR planning and preparing for a rough future, or just throwing the dice with the intent of either making some miracle breakthrough or willingly run the company into the ground?

Of course they realize it. When also explains why, the past two schedules, even with two week delays across the board, still has the same 08/25/17 release date. There are sales going on, so they don't want to panic backer whales.

Yesterday's schedule (diff) even had entries that remaining untouched. e.g. ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER, VOLUMETRIC FOG, APOCALYPSE ARMS SCOURGE RAIL GUN

Nicholas over at SA, finally got his analysis up:

July 21st Schedule Report

Completed: 4
Delayed: 10
Remaining: 17 (was 21)
Needs bug-fixing: 13 (was 13)
Total In-progress: 30
Progress since July 14th: 4 out of 34 tasks.
Furthest ETA: Aug 10th (was Aug 10th)

COMPLETED

Item 2.0 Multi Function Displays

Rover and Dragonfly in Ships

StarMap App

Behring P4-AR - Legacy weapon re-work

DELAYED

Mission Givers - ETA is 28th July (was 14th July)
Reason: The estimate for the mission givers has been pushed back due to some animations requiring rework and newly discovered code dependencies.

Delamar / Levski - ETA is 28th July (was 14th July)
Reason: There is some remaining shop kiosk implementation to be completed for 3.0.0 resulting in a slight delay.

Inventory System Support - ETA is 27th July (was 20th July)
Reason: None given

Entity Owner Manager - ETA is 28th July (was 20th July)
Reason: None Given

Cargo Manifest App - ETA is 27th July (was 20th July)
Reason: Delayed due to complications while hooking up the search bar and transfer popup, but the feature is now code complete and requires some final hookup to Flash.[/b]

Ship Selector App & Insurance Claim - ETA is 3rd August (was 19th July)
Reason: Code is complete and now requires final hookup, but this has been delayed due to the team supporting hint system for designers. Also, the completion date for this feature has moved out in order to support the item 2.0 Multi-Function Displays and Inventory.[/b]

Inventory System - ETA is 27th July (was 20th July)
Reason: Also delayed due to complications while hooking up the search bar and transfer popup, but the feature is now code complete and requires some final hookup to Flash.[/b]

Mission System - ETA is 24th July
Reason: None given

Render to Texture - ETA is 10th August
Reason: None Given

RSI Aurora - ETA is 4th August (was 21st July)
Reason: Implementing the “springy” landing gear on ships, and bug fixing on other ships have delayed the delivery of the Aurora.

OPEN

- MISSION GIVERS
- DELAMAR / LEVSKI (STRETCH GOAL)
- INVENTORY SYSTEM SUPPORT
- ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER
- ENTITY OWNER MANAGER
- CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION
- CARGO MANIFEST APP
- VEHICLE CUSTOMIZER APP
- SHIP SELECTOR APP & INSURANCE CLAIM
- INVENTORY SYSTEM
- COMMS SYSTEM UI
- MISSION SYSTEM
- RENDER TO TEXTURE
- VOLUMETRIC FOG (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- APOCALYPSE ARMS SCOURGE RAIL GUN (still scheduled to be completed on June 9th)
- RSI AURORA
- GEMINI L86 PISTOL

MARKED COMPLETED BUT UNDERGOING BUG FIXING

- Item 2.0 Ship Conversion – Part 2
- Insurance
- Doors and Airlocks
- Cargo
- Kiosk Support
- Repair
- Hint System
- Personal Manager App
- Mission Manager App
- Physics Serialization
- Drake Dragonfly
- RSI Constellation Aquilla
- Misc Prospector

Ah yeah, I remember back when the schedule was first unveiled earlier this year. Good times.

[Motto]

So they hold on for a new release during Gamescon. If they make that, they'll likely tank the project with another crappy product. If they don't make that, they'll likely tank the project too just for screwing up one too many times. If for some magical happening they make it after that to Citizencon, they'll have to show something really big there. I'm guessing the next couple a months are critical. If funding dries up, they need to adjust with big lay-offs et cetera and that will create the panic that has everybody jumping overboard.

Now CR has given himself a big salary and he added some family and friends too. How much of that behaviour (money) can he be held accountable for if this collapses? Overhere, as a manager you can be held legally accountable for mismanagement. How's that in the US of A?

[Narrenbart]

[...] Now CR has given himself a big salary and he added some family and friends too. How much of that behaviour (money) can he be held accountable for if this collapses? Overhere, as a manager you can be held legally accountable for mismanagement. How's that in the US of A?

Held accountable by whom? Private refunds? With the net of corporations it will be almost impossible to held anybody accountable.

[Motto]

By a legal party. Justice, Feds, something like that. If CIG collapses, a legal investigation of some sort will be started I think. The legal system provides in investigations without a prior charge first too. Of course, complaints filed against CIG by backers and/or investors would seem logical.

[Narrenbart]

[...] If CIG collapses, a legal investigation of some sort will be started I think. [...]

Why?

[Motto]

If CIG goes bankrupt an investigation would follow, at least by those responsible for handling the bankruptcy. If CIG downsizes large and takes other measures to keep it afloat enough not to violate their own promises, backers/investors will seek compensation. One or two should be enough.

I can't imagine that when CIG collapses, CR and family can walk away with of couple of years of salaries of say 500K and live out the rest of their lives. Maybe in the USA a bankruptcy is a simple thing, but overhere everything will be checked to see if the bankrupty is legit. So no taking out all of the cash a day before, selling all the properties first etc. And I can't see this ending in something where legally they have done nothing wrong so they can walk away with it. They're not that clever.

[Narrenbart]

They're not that clever.

You are underestimating people with money.

[Narrenbart]

They are only liable with their personal money if they did illegal stuff - and this has to be proven.
CR can just say the backers demanded it we tried and failed - story over.

I am very sad that you are living in a country where anybody is liable to their companies with personal money ... I guess you won't have that much companies over there.