Star Citizen Citizenship

[jwh1701]

Talonsbane is very mean spirited person for the death remark and the same for those that liked the post. I do not wish any physical harm on Chris or any of those that work with him. I would like to see legal action taken to expose the finances which could harm Chris financially. But if Chris and his relatives used the money inappropriately then its self inflicted.

[dsmart]

Talonsbane is very mean spirited person for the death remark and the same for those that liked the post. I do not wish any physical harm on Chris or any of those that work with him. I would like to see legal action taken to expose the finances which could harm Chris financially. But if Chris and his relatives used the money inappropriately then its self inflicted.

It's not new. I get death and violence threats all the time. In fact, Twerk17 a streamer, also did the same thing some months back.

http://dereksmart.org/bin/16-11-05_twerk17gaming_stabbed_comment.webm

[dsmart]

This Concierge citizen was threatened with a ban for talking about the Crytek lawsuit on Spectrum. So he made a video.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/947152002764730369.html

[dsmart]

LOL!! Easily the most hilarious Star Citizen video so far.

Guy loads up the game, while waiting for it to load, he goes off to play with his dog.

[nightfire]

Guy loads up the game, while waiting for it to load, he goes off to play with his dog.

This should be possible in-game, for example as a mini quest on the loading screen.

Also, selling virtual pets, food and pet  care services/insurance in the game could significantly boost CIGs income. While waiting for building mechanics to be implemented, players should at least be able to chase their dogs around on their virtual land plots.

[dsmart]

Meanwhile, over there


Mucka

You bring up a lot of interesting points in your post above.

Interesting...but, as with all the other supporters before you who made the dame arguments, wrong.

Shall I try to cover them one by one?

Well...OK then. But only some.

You say people here have "zero technical knowledge or programming background."

That is wrong. Many of the people here are programmers, coders, developers, network engineers or the like.

It isn't we who are embarrassing ourselves. Its people like you who come into the debate and presume to tell us we don't have a clue about how to do our jobs who are embarrassing yourselves.

Do you guys have a script on what to say and which points to raise?

You claim you tried to explain "how the PG tech was superior to ED"...

The trouble is that wouldn't be difficult. Procedural generation is relatively easy. The difficulty is often in hiding the patterns and providing a sufficient degree of variation.

The problem with your argument that SC PG is better than that of EDs is that so far there is very little proof of that.

That cityscape demo was impressive. Right up until you realised there was 1...a great deal of repetition in assets and 2...it was crafted using a different engine and wasn't representative of what is or would be in game. The moons of 3.0 have the same issues....they look pretty, but there is a LOT of repetition in the assets, the pattern generator needs improving as you can visually see the layout used and the moons themselves are heavily handcrafted.

It is difficult to argue PG is better in SC when it isn't really used to do anything except create a couple of spheres.

The S42 demo? Is it a failure?

Well...you fell for it so obviously not. It did its job.

I saw six years of work boiled down to an interactive movie with poor combat capabilities, and an urgent need to have the graphics updated. I saw performance problems, poor sound design and mediocre gameplay.

The music was good and...up close...the planets looked good.

As for being a preAlpha...finally. How long have you guys been referring to this as an Alpha build?

But again you get things wrong. I don't think the demo was a failure because it was polished...and contrary to your assertion, CIG put a lot of effort polishing that demo...but because it demonstrated very poor game design. Technical issues can be fixed...sound and graphics can be changed. Game design and mechanics are in some ways difficult to change.

I will agree that the amazing tech Chris Roberts promised is being ignored. I look forward to the day he actually adds some to the game.

You guys backed him do he could add this tech. The least he could do is add something.

And yes...it is difficult to appreciate the ground breaking nature of being able to walk around a capital ship or fly fighters. It was impressive in SWG and it still looked good when CODIW did it.

But I think you are overly impressed by the lack of a loading screen. Streaming data into memory has been around since the days of the Spectrum and C64.

Technically....SC will be loading in map data in the same way games like ED and WOW does. The only question will be how well it will hide that loading process in a real world environment...thousands of players, hundreds of servers with dozens of instances.

You think CIG will be able to exert as tight a control on the process as they do now when the game is released and "live"?

ED went the way it did because FDev did not want to be saddled with the huge costs a client-server setup would entail. Running Star Citizen is not going to be cheap. A server-client model does offer a number of advantages....but its also costlier.

Would this be a good time to point out that EDs instances are about the same size as those of SCs and cheaper to run? No?

Does ED have the same tech as Star Citizen?
Nope. FD have a working engine and a finished game. CIG have neither.
Does Star Citizen have a greater scope than ED?
Curently? No. EDs is bigger.
What about later? When SC goes live? What about then?
Nope...the scope of both games will be about the same. Assuming CIG gets its stuff running.

You also seem to be operatibg under the delusion that CIG is developing new tech. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what this may be?

As it is....I can say the game has failed. CIGs own developers are saying they reached the limits of what their engine can do and the game is nowhere near ready for release.

CIG either need to switch engines to one that is capable or cut down on the fidelity, content and feature list.

Like you I am confident that performance will increase.

Until CIG adds something new and breaks the fixes. The engine cannot handle the game...and that isn't a problem you can fix by waving a magic wand.

As it is....noone here really wants Star Citizen to fail. Why should we?

We just are not blinded by the "Cult of Roberts" into believing everything he says. I don't believe everything EA or Activision say...why should I treat CIG any different?

More to the point...we come back to your opening point and the supposition that we know nothing about development.

Sadly...many of us DO understand. Which is why we can see the writing on the wall.

This game appears to be in serious trouble. CIGs own devs are stating the engine has reached the limits of its capabilities. Judging by the videos and performance issues and all the little and not so little glitches and CIGs inability to fix these problems....I'd agree. CIGs is fixing one problem by causing three more. They've been trying for more than a year to fix performance issues and the problem isn't getting better. Its getting worse with every patch.

The game is sinking. Most here can see that. The only question is how long will CIGs work keep the game afloat.

They are currently using band aids to mend a gusher. Something will have to give soon.

Before you respond, I'd advise you to learn something about the development process yourself and then turn a critical eye to CIG. Most of the problems affecting SC are the result of decisions made by CIG and their incompetence

[dsmart]

It just gets better

I'm personally not aware of any game that's achieved what CIG is trying to achieve with SC. ED comes close, but their plan is to spread it out over a longer period - CIG want most of what ED will have in future content, to be at release.

This nonsense again.

Many many many games have achieved what CIG is trying to achieve. From old games long forgotten (Star Flight) to old obscure DOS games made by one dude (Noctis IV) to modern quality khantent from indies, big time devs, and one russian guy (Space Engine, Space Engineers, KSP, Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky, Rodina, Hellion...).

Of course, the usual SC (type 10) Defender's response is two fold, here I'll make it for you:

"But it's never been done with this high quality graphics."
"But it's never been done all together in one game."

Let's break these two claims down and figure out why both these arguments fail.

The quality of graphics - Do not matter. Seriously, they don't, in relation to how long it takes to implement basic features such as a good flight model, the ability to walk without falling through the floor, and the like. The prettiness of it is handled typically by the artists and the engine. The artists make the assets and the engine renders them and applies all the nice shaders and lighting. At no point does this stop Joe Physicsguyman from fixing the fact that I keep getting my head stuck in the ceiling when waking up. Also, who cares how pretty something looks if it is amazing to play? I know I don't and that's been the mantra of gamers for years now: our games look good but the gameplay has suffered because of it Nevertheless, Elite looks great, and if you like high sci-fi comic style art NMS is right up your alley and they improve the fidelities with each update. There comes a point where throwing more triangles at a game doesn't make it better, it just makes it take longer. SC is the poster child for this. Further, their need to have the "prettiest game" out there caused them to choose an engine ill suited to their task and has caused the game to enter a development quagmire it may never recover from.

The only FPS/Vehicle/Space/Flight/Planet/Station game! Space Engineers. Done, thanks. Seriously, it does all of it, gets updated much quicker. Of course you can complain about the voxels and the graphics but again that doesn't matter if you can't release your product and the graphics aren't making the game better. SC's graphics actively make the game worse. Of course, you can say that still, SE isn't out of early access and see, these games take time. Yeah they do, but not as long or needing as much of your money as CIG are claiming SC does. To further hammer the point home, a good portion of these other games I listed that do the things CIG and their defenders claim are "never before done" and "incredibly difficult" didn't have the audacity to ask for peoples money upfront before it was playable and one of them is free. If CIG were smart they'd have contacted Vladimir and asked to license Space Engine for their new space game instead of a small map FPS engine. The extra bonus is they wouldn't be getting sued by Crytek right now.

Furthermore, it doesn't really matter if it hasn't all been done in one place before. The point is it has been done before, numerous times, often separately to varying degrees of success. The pitfalls of proc gen, for example, are well understood. The time and effort of building the same scale of assets from hand are also well understood. The basics of multiple physics grids and vehicles and switching from them to FPS are ideas the industry understands and knows how to work with. Decent flight models have been hashed out by other companies. CIG is acting like they are breaking new ground and working through never before seen problems with a team of experts but the reality is they are bumbling through well known gaming headaches like newcomers and botching nearly every step while spending your money to do it and always asking for more while having such a poor understanding of what they are doing that they promise release dates years and possibly decades before actual launch.

Last part of this section: we compare what SC does to what other games do. We do not compare what SC dreams of one day doing with what other games currently do because that's silly. Until CIG can demonstrate they are capable of putting "dream SC" together we can't talk about how "complex" it's quantum-future-self is when the right-now software itself is a barely stitched together hack of Lumberyard the devs haven't yet figured out how to make work. Comparing 3.0 to any of it's completion reveals it to be nothing short of a hilarious joke and a failure.

Furthermore, CR can't shake his old bad habits. Like you said: CIG want most of what ED will have in future content, to be at release.

This is hilariously awful because desperately trying to cram every new feature that catches the project manager's eye means the idea of a 1.0 will never be set. You need to come up with a product and what state you want it to be at and then release the damn thing before adding more to it. Elite did it right, they got their product out and now have something to keep adding too.

Meanwhile, you say that CIG wants everything Elite has now and may have in the future at launch, but five years from now when they are finishing up Elite may be an entirely different game with features CR never dreamed up and now they need to shoehorn that in too along with cool features from twelve other games that came out that impressed him and if he doesn't add them in it'll not be the "BDSSE" that does "everything" because some other game is doing something SC isn't.

Your defense of SC is, sorry to say, literally the reason it's such a joke and a failure to those of us here who have an understanding of "how game development works."

[jwh1701]

Twerk17 - Very sad and sick to wish harm on someone that says something you do not like. This seems to be the norm in many circles which is sad, looking at any thread where people are discussing nvdia vs amd, amd vs intel etc. They are so mean to one another over something so trivial. One thing that seems innate is people do like to hear the truth, I'm pointing my finger back at myself as I did not want to accept Derek's posts. But not once have I thought or wished harm on Derek or anyone for that matter that I disagreed with.

Concierge citizen - He's in a tough spot, but he is doing the right thing by speaking about what happened.

SC Loading - Coffee Video
I was not expecting that ending where he uninstalls and makes a post. Its funny and sad at the same time. Even now I still have a desire to play the original game as pitched.


Lot of informative posts on frontier read it to the last post,
Pg 46 ZeeWolf - interesting post
Pg 46 Lysander lysan - stated received 3k refund
PG 46-47 - NuttiKrust Still defending SC, saying CIG is doing some super difficult
PG 48 NuttiKrust - Still defending, believes they are inventing something never done before.
PG 48 Lysander lysa, ZeeWolf - great posts continue
PG 49 Azirphaeli - great post, using logic not CR Hubris of what is promised.
PG 49 TenakaFurey - great post on CIG failures
PG 50 TenakaFurey - Long Post but excellent
PG 51 TenakaFurey - Post about 1000 instances on SC verse reality
PG 51 TenakaFurey - #758 Echoes what many have said before concerning engine choice failure
PG 52 Lysander lysan - #772 great post

[jwh1701]

This is my favorite part:

"Last part of this section: we compare what SC does to what other games do. We do not compare what SC dreams of one day doing with what other games currently do because that's silly. Until CIG can demonstrate they are capable of putting "dream SC" together we can't talk about how "complex" it's quantum-future-self is when the right-now software itself is a barely stitched together hack of Lumberyard the devs haven't yet figured out how to make work. Comparing 3.0 to any of it's completion reveals it to be nothing short of a hilarious joke and a failure."

Many people are defending SC on what is promised and not paying attention how little they have delivered on the original 6 million  pledge.

[Kyrt]

Meanwhile, over there

That probably would be easier to follow if the original post had been quoted

[Spunky Munkee]

What Star Citizen backers have to say after the last few posts...

[dsmart]

That probably would be easier to follow if the original post had been quoted

Right. It's this one which several people responded to.


Same old puerile drivel being posted in here by people who have zero technical knowledge or programming background.
You should all just stop embarrassing yourselves.
I remember when the first planet demos came out and I tried to explain how the PG tech was superior to ED but of course I was told otherwise by people who have no clue, "it's just a bump map,".

Now the same people are telling us all how SQ42 playthrough demo was a failure because it had low fps and glitches - you know a pre-alpha not being polished or optimised, who would have thought?
And of course all the amazing tech is totally ignored, probably because most here are too blinded to even understand that it is groundbreaking in many ways.
What you actually saw was a player in first person walking around a capital ship as it flew through space.
Get into a fighter aboard said capital ship and fly out into space.
EVA out of ship and return.
Then descend down to a highly detailed planet surface with almost movie quality graphics.
And all this without a single load screen. No game has ever come close to such a seamless sandbox open world with such detail and interaction at a huge scale.
There is a reason ED went the route they did and did not take on such a huge technical challenge and all power to them for that choice - just don't tell me it has anywhere near the tech and scope that SC does.

The only valid criticism of SC is that it is too ambitious.
We can't say progress is too slow when so much new tech is being developed.
We can't say the game will fail, nor can we say it will be a success.
2018 should help neutrals decide now that the delta patcher is in and content and patches should arrive more frequently.
Also 3.0 was pretty much a total overhaul of the game rather than an iterative patch to 2.6.

I'm confident performance will be improved with bugs squashed, a lot of new tech still to be patched in to help frames, Vulkan, and of course the game isn't yet optimized for GPU drivers.
Content and game mechanics are still a big question mark for SC but I think that should work out.
My only real concern is whether it can all be woven together to make a cohesive whole.
SQ42 shouldn't have many of the issues SC faces so I expect it to be an excellent single player game - only real concern is subsumption and AI.

I have no idea why some are so desperate for the game to fail, if it succeeds it will push gaming forward to a new level.
I'll come back in 6 months to a year, some of you will be nearly teenagers by then.
Until then enjoy your echo chamber.

[justme]

i just would like to know,
what they did between:

"we are sorry, but it was a close decision not to show squadron on gamescom 08/2016. we don't want to show unfinished stuff and it just needs a bit more polish"

and:
 
"here we have a very early work in progress demo, laggy as hell, 24h hours delay in 12/2017."


ohhh... yeah. land claims, tonks, farming simulator 42 :D

[Backer42]

i just would like to know,
what they did between:

"we are sorry, but it was a close decision not to show squadron on gamescom 08/2016. we don't want to show unfinished stuff and it just needs a bit more polish"

and:
 
"here we have a very early work in progress demo, laggy as hell, 24h hours delay in 12/2017."

Violating CryTek's intellectual property, I guess.

[dsmart]

Twerk17 - Very sad and sick to wish harm on someone that says something you do not like. This seems to be the norm in many circles which is sad, looking at any thread where people are discussing nvdia vs amd, amd vs intel etc. They are so mean to one another over something so trivial. One thing that seems innate is people do like to hear the truth, I'm pointing my finger back at myself as I did not want to accept Derek's posts. But not once have I thought or wished harm on Derek or anyone for that matter that I disagreed with.

I have received so many death and violence threats since July 2015, that I've lost count. But those who know me, know very well that I document that sort of thing, though many of the Twitter and Reddit accounts were killed. You can't bother to spend money and resources on those people because most of the time they're just degenerates with nothing to lose anyway. But when you have known people like Twerk17, Montoya, Dolvak, and others advocating and/or condoning it, that's a different level.

And yes, I have also received SWATting threats from a 19 yr old Nick Butler from back in 2015 during the height of my Star Citizen blogs release. He was identified using public social media profiles, and reported. The same method used to identify and report the guys involved in the Kansas SWATting incident.

Not only that, this latest nonsense with Montoya (the same guy who backed out of the GTL debate) is most despicable display of scumbaggery I have ever seen.

Timeline:


1) He created a video attacking MassivelyOp because he didn't like what they were writing about Star Citizen

2) I called him out on it on Twitter (read the thread)

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/946128633843929088

LOL!! The Shillizen who backed out of debating (he would have been crushed, of course) me live on @GameTalkLive a few weeks ago, is back again. It's cringe-worthy and hilarious. They're all doing disaster control, following the 3.0 disaster release

3) He creates a thread on his website which popped up in my GoogleAlerts notifications 24hrs later. Though some have been deleted, while others were warned, that thread contains the usual insults, attacks, threats of death, violence etc. All the staples of a perfectly normal gaming community.

https://testsquadron.com/threads/help-derek-smart-is-attacking-me-on-twitter-d.12571/



That image is of this nutjob https://robertsspaceindustries.com/citizens/Talonsbane

4) The gamer shooting in Kansas happened and I Tweeted this

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/946812430788816896

This is the sort of thing that Star Citizen cult members will totally do, if they could

Of course, people who know that I have been receiving public and private death and violence threats over Star Citizen, already know what I was talking about. My point is that there are guys like this in gaming, and who are quite capable of doing things like this.

For example, this is Twerk17, another streamer in the all but defunct, [redacted] Star Citizen streaming crew:

http://dereksmart.com/bin/16-11-05_twerk17gaming_stabbed_comment.webm

While SWATting may appear to be a prank, it's not the first time that it has been used to intimidate people. And now a gamer is dead as a result. The poor guy wasn't even the one in the game. The 1st gamer in the chain, had given a fake address to another, who then hired this douche to SWAT the 1st gamer. Except that an innocent person was SWATted, shot, and killed instead. There was NO doxing involved.

5) He then starts a Twitter campaign to harass and attack me, while standing on the grave of a dead gamer. In this regard, falsely accusing me of doxing, which is not only a crime, but also a clear case of defamation. Of course if those clowns thought that I was guilty of doxing, they would have reported me these past years, and then found themselves on the receiving end of criminal action for filing a false police report, not to mention a lawsuit from me.

17-12-30 @ 8:17

https://twitter.com/montoya_test/status/947275573415546880

I fear for my life and that of my wife and two small children when @dsmart incites this kind of behavior! #GamersUnite to fight this toxicity! After what happened in Kansas, its enough! @Charlie_L_Hall #noswat

17-12-30 @ 5:39

https://twitter.com/montoya_test/status/947235619637547013

In light of the recent tragedy of an innocent man being killed after being doxxed and swatted, we as a community need to come together and condemn those who use doxxing as a means of intimidation! @Polygon @MassivelyOP #GamersUnite #noswat

17-12-30 @ 5:11

https://twitter.com/montoya_test/status/947228613295865860

I and my entire organization of gamers send our deepest condolences to the family of the young man whose life was so tragically cut short. Let this be a lesson to people like @dsmart who have a history of doxxing that there could be dangerous repercussions to their actions.

6) My response to him was clear

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/947570794347057153

You truly are despicable scum. Taking the tragic death of a fellow gamer to further your on-going attacks against someone saying bad things about a video game scam you all profit from.

Chris Roberts destroyed Star Citizen. You guys destroyed the community.

7) Then Trevor Noblitt aka Dolvak, who was a mod on the now closed Reddit hate sub (/r/dereksmart) decided to chime in with the usual lies about him being doxed by me. Because somehow, that's how that works.

https://twitter.com/SnailMailGames/status/947295625778888704

D Smart Doxxed Chris and Sandi Roberts kids to the point they had to sent a Cease and Desist. This is widely known in the SC Community.

This is the same person who at one point, got my Reddit account shadow-banned for doxing Accelerwraith because I linked to his LinkedIn profile in a post I was replying to about his (Accelerwraith) lies and threats of violence.

This is the same person who used to be part of the now defunct INN which I wrote a blog about. They disbanded shortly after that.

This is the same person who started the narrative that I had somehow doxed Sandi and her kids, something they KNOW to be PATENTLY FALSE; and which my attorney addressed in a very strongly worded response to Ortwin back in 2015. And which he again repeated.

So now, I am just going to sue him and Montoya for it. I have grown tired of warning them. And this is how I am going to completely ruin the entirety of their 2018 so that they can explain to the "SC Community" and the legal system, how exactly it is I doxed anyone (including Trevor himself). And I am marching them straight into Federal court over it. As I know that I am 100% right, by the time the dust settles, I am going to completely bankrupt them, while dragging RSI/CIG into it because these two are directly connected to CIG community activities, and have always had a vested financial interest in doing these things by proxy.

8) My responses to Dolvak

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/947572891461341185

Dolvak, one day, you & your buddies are going to get sued for defamation. Then you're going to show, among other things, how retweeting social media links is doxing.

It's interesting that you guys never post the C&D, nor my attorney's scathing response.

I have warned you guys, time & time again, that there is NO version of this fiasco whereby u guys don't answer for what u have done. I am notorious for being extremely patient & resilient. So do carry on. I'm glad that Montoya has now added himself to the legal action list

9) Montoya wasn't done using a tragedy to create drama, and continue to accuse me of having committed a crime. He created a video.

10) I left him a response to his bullshit




This is what these guys do. They're part of the toxic element that has permeated the Star Citizen community. And they are responsible for the rep that the community now has, and which they are never - ever - going to shake off.

Then this morning, I see this in my Twitter feed

https://twitter.com/montoya_test/status/947581114641780737

In today's episode of @dsmart criticizes @dsmart. With that, I would like to call for a cease fire as we settle in to enjoy new year celebrations. Best wishes to all, and mean everybody, even you!

He's an example of everything that is wrong with gaming, and why our culture gets a bad rap harboring and condoning toxicity.


UPDATE:

01/02/2018

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/948184553214103553

Basically, you claiming that I doxxed a kid (also FALSE) in a wheelchair, despite it being FALSE, is you supporting that "kid" and his friends in their attempt to SWAT and possibly have me killed. As if I don't have enough death threats from Star Citizen backers.

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/948183495175802880

That incident, was the impetus for my Tweet in relation to the Kansas SWATing incident, which you then proceeded to use to attack me over Star Citizen.

But don't worry, you will get your chance to explain how exactly it is that any of this is doxing. https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/946812430788816896

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/948182173860990976

You continue to publicly accuse me of illegal activity, despite knowing it to be FALSE.

Nick Butler (NitroTypat) was 19 back in 2015 when him and his friends discussed SWATing me.

archive.is/h9BMi

He was identified & reported using social media data

01/01/2018

https://twitter.com/montoya_test/status/947991456651890688

If you are serious and want to formulate an educated opinion, then I will be happy to help. Here he is doxxing a kid in a wheelchair https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/3rs5vq/compiling_a_list_of_predictions_and_allegations/cwrc863/

https://twitter.com/montoya_test/status/947938205885714432

has now publicly threatened to dox me after I said I was fearful for the safety of my family and I don't want to be doxxed. After what happened in Kansas I am very concerned! Hugging my kids a lot today.

https://twitter.com/montoya_test/status/947980002385125376

Im sorry to have angered you. I, like most people, live month to month. I don't have money for any lawyers. I would never wish bankruptcy on anybody, its a terrible thing.