Author Topic: Star Citizen Citizenship  (Read 1912602 times)

StanTheMan

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1545 on: December 04, 2018, 04:52:55 PM »
Another sale, another pointless outcry. And once again, it's that old money v new money debacle

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/old-money-versus-new-money


From that thread, this guy knows his onions.


"Because at this point, this whole endeavor is an out of control smash and grab.

What they have:
-Multiple studios
-500+ employees

What they don't have:
-An end state for a product that is slipping further away from becoming practical or viable

Looking at the crowd funding and subscriber data that they publish on their site, they collect about 35 million a year on average from us and are up to 2.1 million-ish citizens in the verse. Now on Youtube, their Anniversary Sale vids have between 30k and 50k views each. So that represents 1%-3% of the people that have registered accounts tuned in for the sale. In the absence of any other third party data that you could loosely infer interest in the project from, that kind of sends up the red flag that maybe things aren't what they appear. When considering that cash flow is an ever growing priority, it lends itself to the explanation of reduced transparency, stifled flow of information, and choices that don't favor older backers. They need the new money, and the longer this goes on and they try to keep a few of the original promises that they made at the outset, the more the nickel and dime tactics are going to pop up until they just come to terms with their terrible monetization model and break from it.

This is the new game I have played with Star Citizen this year, I call it "What happens next?". I have made a list of things that I expect to happen, in no specific order:
1) Micro-transaction systems get more robust and offerings escalate beyond vanity items and currency
2) Monthly subscription plans to access the game are announced
3) Terms of Service are adjusted to eliminate possibility of refunds
4) Crowd funding and registered accounts continue to grow at a historical steady rate with no variation regardless of good/bad publicity quarter to quarter until....????
5) The Banu MerchantMan never actually gets made

I hope this game comes out, but I also don't care if its an epic disaster (the press coverage and community rage will be so legendary). This was a great learning experience for me in regards to not blindly throwing money at people trying to sell my own imagination back to me, especially when they go out of their way to avoid accountability.

I would be upset though if this was less commercially successful than Who's Your Caddy?, another high quality Chris Roberts project.

P.S. My gut tells we probably aren't going to need 72 month insurance for a game that is going to at best have a 36 month run, assuming that it gets there that is."

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1546 on: December 04, 2018, 05:03:12 PM »
Ship Review - Day 1
Ship Review - Day 2
Ship Review - Day 3
Ship Review - Day 5
Ship Review - Day 6
Ship Review - Day 7



Ship Review - Day 8

Day Eight- The Final Day- Random rear end Ships And Stuff I Didn't Cover Before

Today's poo poo is a wholly uninteresting collection of ground vehicles and small ships. If you really want a review here it is: they all suck and there's no gameplay attached to them, don't buy them. Okay now that that's out of the way, I want to take this space to review some of the ships I haven't covered so far, because they aren't released. Included in this collection are some of the most outrageous fuckups that CIG has ever managed. Prepare yourself, for the grand finale of Sarsapariller's Sassy Ship Sperging!


Tumbril Nova
Price: 105 real dollars
Guns: Tanky gun
Speed: Ground Vehicle
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It can serve as block housing for up to 6 families

Reviewer's Thoughts: As we're going to discuss, CIG got really into land and territory claims once they had procedural planets in the game. Like, way way into it. Like they kind of forgot that Star Citizen was a game about space for about a year, and it's not clear that they've remembered yet. They started selling land claim beacons and rovers and bikes and all kinds of happy horseshit that doesn't do anything because there is no persistence and you can't own anything for longer than one restart and none of it is in the game anyway. This is where the Tumbril Nova comes in. In any other game this would be the novelty tank that you encounter in a single level and pilot through the city, blowing up Covenant dropships and shouting OOO-RAH at the marines as you ride by. In Star Citizen this is a 105 dollar purchase. You are going to need these to protect your "Land investment" you see. From, uh, bandits. Why would anyone buy this when it would stand to reason that a landlocked vehicle is going to be extremely vulnerable to spaceships, the one thing everybody in the game has? Shut up, stop asking questions, buy the new thing. Anyway CIG hosed up, as is tradition, and all of the concept art for this thing depicts it as being roughly two to three times the size of a house. Seriously it is a tank that looks like it would not fit on any city street in the world. It is a tank with multiple stories on the interior. No ship in the game can carry this. Don't worry, though! CIG solved that problem by selling an entirely new ship just for carrying this loving tank. It is the H2 Hercules and I do not cover it here, because I just told you everything you need to know about it in one sentence.


Aegis Redeemer
Price: 250 imaginary dollars
Guns: This ship will never be released
Speed: Chris personally hates it

Reviewer's Thoughts: Before we delve into the final madness of CIG let's take a trip back to the Halcyon days of 2013-2014, and a little show called The Next Great Starship. See, at the time Chris's whims had turned to American reality television for some godforsaken reason, and obviously what he needed to do was host like 6 months of a show where a bunch of fans competed, for free, to make assets for his unreleased game that they had all already paid for. Their objective was to make a gunship and (and here was the critical mistake) Chris would let the "Community" vote on the final winners. Well it turned out there were some really talented people in his community, and also some less-talented ones, and some that were talented but only knew how to make anime ships, and also some pedophiles. The pedo posted on our very own forums briefly before he was arrested and that is all I will say about that. But long story short, the anime people narrowly won the contest, and the redeemer was the ship they delivered. It looks nothing like anything else in the Aegis lineup. Its engines are giant hair clippers and don't make any sense. It is loving loaded with enough guns, missiles, and turrets to make a Super Hornet blush. It has also not seen the light of day since the end of the show. They sold it, per their agreement with the community, then they buried it and will never discuss it again. CIG hates this ship. Presumably because it actually kind of cool, but (I suspect) because it is the one ship in the game that did not spring fully-formed from Chris's sweaty balding head. So it's safe to take giant shits on internally. But yeah this was basically it for community engagement- after this, CIG swore off any kind of public fan-input ever again.

https://starcitizen.tools/images/3/30/GenesisStarliner1.jpg
Genesis Starliner
Price: More than an airline ticket, 400 dollars
Guns: All passenger liners should come with guns
Speed: LA to NY in 15 minutes

Reviewer's Thoughts: Okay back to the more fevered recent era. CIG decided to sell a space airliner. Okay, cool you say, not for me but I can see why passenger transport would be a thing in their universe and why not sell the model, it's not like it could expand gameplay enormously. Whoah there buckaroo. Holster that assumption cannon! They sold an entire novel of airline gameplay with this thing. See, it's not enough that you have a ship with NPC's on it. You need to keep them happy. You need to serve them drinks. You need to make sure your blade servers are set up with the latest entertainment so that they don't get upset! You think I'm kidding. Do I need to remind you of the space farm and particle collider? CIG had completely detached from reality at this point, waving hands and promising poo poo to make a quick buck was how they did. Lest you think I am loving kidding, here is the original pitch. Flight attendants! Medical diagnosis! Luxury seating and upgradeably liquors! THE MIXMASTER! Anyway I probably don't need to tell you, but this ship hasn't come out and it probably won't ever come out. CIG can't even get NPC's to stand still without t-posing and dying. Imagine trying to fill a moving ship with a hundred of them.


Pioneer
Price: 850 colony-founding dollars
Guns: Fuuuuuck I don't care
Speed: I'm sure it will take 2+ hours to get anywhere

Reviewer's Thoughts: Back to land claims. Here's the ship that literally can build outposts. Why would you need to do that? What function do outposts serve? Can you have more than one? Is it persistent after you log out? WHY DO YOU NEED OUTPOSTS SERIOUSLY? gently caress you, stop asking questions, Future Chris will handle all of this, don't worry so much. It's big and it looks like a homeworld ship and it can land on planets and leave little buildings! loving buy it! So with the Pioneer we've gone from "Spaceship game in space" to "Spaceship game with planets" to "Planet game, focused on the planets, with some spaceships enabling the planet-based gameplay." Why? Who was clamoring for the planet stuff? Nobody, but Chris had an engineer who was able to make procedural planets work in Cryengine, so that is what Star Citizen is now- a game about procedural planets and owning them, I guess. Hence all the content just released, and about to be released, and why it is all just planets planets planets. The pioneer cost 850 dollars and hasn't been seen since the initial sale. I don't think they even mentioned it during this expo. But the North remembers. Oh yes.


Origin 890 Jump
Price: 890 dollars haha get it that's the name of the ship it's a number we just loving made up and it coincides with the price what a coincidence
Guns: Not nearly enough
Speed: Not nearly enough

Reviewer's Thoughts: Citizens please buy one of these. It makes it so much easier to figure out which of you needs to be relentlessly griefed. So. Chris likes trains. He likes formula 1, he likes gritty space rebels, he likes car dealerships, he likes navies and saluting and admirals. You will find all of these things in Star Citizen. But the one thing Chris loving loves? More than anything else in the whole goddamn world? So much that it has infested Star Citizen with a bunch of useless cluttered poo poo? Luxury yachts. There is nothing in this world Chris loves more than a big rear end useless multi-million-dollar luxury yacht with all the fixin's. He has like 4 of these stupid loving things in the game, as well- pretty much the entire Origin lineup, plus the Constellation Phoenix, are all "Luxury." And they don't loving do anything! They're just white, and wood-panelled, in a game about grungy spacemen! But this thing- oh, this 890 jump- this is the crown jewel. For literally 900 of your dollars, you can own a frigate-sized monument to your limitless ego and inability to perceive value. What can it do? It can luxury. It's got big windows! It has, uh... it's white! It has wood paneling! It has virtually no defenses and is probably slow as poo poo! If I see you in this thing I will dedicate my evening to making you upset!


luxury


NO, MORE LUXURY


DID I loving STUTTER I SAID LUXURY I DON'T CARE IF IT SERVES NO GAMEPLAY PURPOSE



Idris P And M
Price: 1000-1750 can't-even-make-a-joke-about-it dollars
Guns: All the best guns
Speed: None

Reviewer's Thoughts: God I'm tired of writing about spaceships and it's only been 8 days. Imagine how the fuckers at CIG must feel after 6 years! Anyway we're in the home stretch now. The Idris M is the grand-daddy of the whale ships. It was originally sold as a ONE TIME ONLY MILITARY VERSION WE WILL NEVER SELL THIS AGAIN in a lot of 100, at 1000 dollars per ship. I don't know why. I guess Chris needed a hundred grand at the tables that day and cashing in some of this stuff was the best way to do it. Of course, it was never that exclusive. For the first two years, you could message the concierge service and they'd just straight-up sell you one of these eventually. This was what prompted the grey market in the first place. People were apeshit to buy this thing and too impatient to wait. You could turn around and sell it for 3-4x what you paid for it. I did this with one and made a cool 3k profit off of it. CIG wasn't having that, though- they wanted their cut of the idiot whale money and behind-the-scenes sales were not going to do it. So they made the Idris-P. It was the exact same ship, but worse- missing the railgun, missing a couple bigger guns- and for more money- 1,250 dollars. See it turns out there's some law in the EU that prevents you from exchanging digital goods over 1000 dollars in value. So the Idris M was "Giftable" between accounts, but the Idris P, at just slightly past the limit, was not! So sad backers, nothing we can do about it! Naturally the "Worse but for more money" ship sold like hotcakes. They eventually started locking the original behind high-level packages, so if you spent 10k or whatever on Star Citizen you could net yourself one, because why spend 1k when you could multiply that by 10? Anyway it's been 6 years and this ship isn't out because it's a flying skyscraper/aircraft carrier and nothing about their engine can handle it. This ship Expo was the first time that a static model was placed in the game alongside players. It's not coming out, it's never coming out, give Chris Roberts all your money etc.


Javelin
Price: 3000 dollars but that's just for starters
Guns: More guns than the loving Idris that's for sure, what a pleb ship
Speed: Actually negative

Reviewer's Thoughts: We need to go deeper. More P2W than a 1000 dollar capital ship. What about... a three thousand dollar ship that you have to pay 5,000 just to get the option to buy? Oh yes. I don't know if that's still the case, but originally the Javelin was only offered to super-duper megawhales. It is a destroyer, or something, who cares. It has all the guns and it's like two miles long and it takes more people to run it than CIG has ever demonstrated they can fit on a single server. It costs 5,000 just to look at the store page and 3,000 just to buy. You probably need to co-sign a loan with Chris just to sniff this thing's farts. It costs more than some people make in a year, it will never be released, and if it was it would serve no gameplay function except to just sit there because there is no game mechanic requiring this. What are you gonna loving do, fly it to an asteroid field and hunt bandits? Motherfucker this ship is bigger than Port Olisar. How do you even propose that players spawn this monstrosity? Nothing about this makes sense. Hundreds of artists are going to spend a year just to do the interior of this ship, that like 15 morons in the entire world will ever own, and you know every one of them is so repugnant they're never going to get a crew for it. But we're not loving done yet.


Anvil F8 Lightning
Price: Ten. Thousand. Dollars.
Guns: Lots of em
Speed: Faster than a wireless transaction between your bank and Chris's wallet

Reviewer's Thoughts: Deeper. This is it, this is as whale as it gets. The F8 Lightning was the final, gotta-have-it ultimate supership at the end of Squadron 42, the game of mocap and missed deadlines. In the old Wing Commander games there was always some ludicrously OP ship that the player got towards game's end that could kill like 100 other fighters without a scratch. Chris, understanding that this would be extremely poor game design to have in his multiplayer dog-fight MMO, committed publicly on camera in numerous places that players would not see or be able to buy this ship until they finished SQ42. Well, that lasted 3 of 4 years which is practically a record in Chris-land, but eventually a whole big pile of internal poo poo was leaked including models for this fighter, and CIG kind of gave up the fight. A year or so after that, surprise! There's a ten thousand dollar pack in the store, and if you buy it the big extra-special reward is.... this fighter! Don't worry, it's not P2W. I mean, you did pay. You paid so very much. And you're going to win- believe us, if you don't win we will alter the game until you do, at that kind of price. But it cannot be conclusively proven that you paid just to win. So, checkmate haters! Back in reality, it is kind of surprising that this is the final ship in the whale lineup, but I think they'd kind of run out of capital ships to overpromise and under-deliver on at the point that this was sold. This thing will, inevitably be the most ludicrously OP fighter in the game. Which means that once people can earn it in-game, it will be the only fighter anyone ever uses. Every other ship will have to be balanced around this piece of poo poo, or be rendered instantly irrelevant. This thing is the literal death knell of any kind of balance or gameplay ever existing in Star Citizen. The end game is just going to be this fighter, whichever trade ship can carry the most cargo, and whichever capital ship can shoot this fighter the best (or, if none of them can... just more of this fighter). That's it. Look upon your works, ye Future Chris's, and despair.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1547 on: December 04, 2018, 05:45:08 PM »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

McDrake

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1548 on: December 05, 2018, 12:41:26 AM »

The Top Gun-Video is well made.
But why is he so afraid of the rocket (1:00)?
They don't work, or do they
 :grin:

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1549 on: December 05, 2018, 06:37:00 AM »
The Top Gun-Video is well made.
But why is he so afraid of the rocket (1:00)?
They don't work, or do they
 :grin:

Missiles still don't work :emot-lol:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1550 on: December 06, 2018, 09:59:45 AM »
FTR has a follow-up video


My comment



Another good video. But it adds nothing new to the on-going debacle.

All the backers praising the "balance" in the video are the same ones who haven't been paying attention; because for YEARS now most of us have been warning about PRECISELY what is now happening and which FTR has stated so succinctly in these two videos.

It's no big secret that they HAVE to keep raising money in order to keep up with their current monthly expenses. The public UK financials are a GLARING Red flag that they are literally operating on a month-to-month basis. And it shouldn't come as ANY surprise that having saturated and peaked in game package sales, that they MUST rely on the few whales to keep buying ships and JPEGs of ships for a massively broken tech-demo. There is NO other way for them to raise money; and that's where all these highly anti-backer fund-raising practices come from. And since there are whales who 1) don't actually care 2) who foolishly believe that money is the answer here, CIG has NO incentive to change course.

It's precisely how F2P mechanics work. If for every 1000 players who buy nothing, you can get even 10 to buy something - and it covers your costs, then you can keep going for a bit longer. In the case of massive (in the millions) number of players, it's basically a license to print money if 1) you have a popular product 2) you have reasonable expenses which are within your income

For as much as some of us have said it, if there weren't some whales giving CIG money and thus encouraging these sorts of practices, this project would have been just another failed crowd-funded project. I mean think about it. LOOK at what they have achieved in 6 years (the first hangar module was released Aug 2013) after raising over $200M. Look even more closely and you will see that they haven't even delivered the product they pitched at $3M back in NOv 2012; nor the one for which they raised $65M in Nov 2014. That - alone - is clear evidence that not only did they bite off more than they could chew, the on-going technical debt HAS to be paid for somehow. And THAT costs time AND money. So if they weren't doing all these things in order to continue raising money, where would the project have been in, say, Dec 2015? Note, by that date, all they had only delivered was 2.0 w/ multi-crew. The first "persistence" didn't arrive until 2.4 in June 2016. They had raised $155M. In 3.3.5 released Nov 2018, they still haven't built a SINGLE one of the 106 star systems they promised at $65M. And since the current dev schedule goes to Q2/19, it means that by end of 2019, it's improbably that Stanton would even be considered "finished". You don't need a degree in data analytics, financial progression to see the problem. That's why publishers and developers who fund and manage games, have competent producers who plan and foresee these things. THEY are the gatekeepers to success or failure. That's why even the best looking and conceived high profile games CAN still fail if they are managed by incompetent people.

As I've said before, people have the right to do as they want with their money. My primary issue with the project - the lies and ToS walkbacks aside - is that those who didn't buy into this perpetual "dream" and who want out, should get their money back. But they can't, because CIG stopped giving refunds after they released their 3.0 MVP in Dec 2017. And there are those who keep saying that it's a pledge, so they shouldn't be able to get their money back. Those people are completely ignoring the fact that 1) if that were true, CIG wouldn't have had to make ALL those surreptitious ToS changes 2) the FTC and some State attorney generals wouldn't have gone after crowd-funded projects for basically not delivering on promises. They promised to deliver a game by a Nov 2014 date certain +12, then changed +18 months leeway. They didn't deliver. At that point those backers wanting their money back, at the very least, should have been given the opportunity to get their money back or stay in. Instead, they lost that right via ToS changes which some unwittingly clicked on - and agreed to - in order to even access their account while applying for said refund.

They NEED on-going funding or the project DIES. It's that simple. And ALL the backers, ignorant or otherwise, know this to be an absolute and irrefutable FACT.

And even if they were to miraculously release SQ42 tomorrow, that's not going to change ANYTHING due to the large number of people who are already entitled to it. As a game in a niche category, even if they sold 100K (highly optimistic; don't take my word for it, go look at the Frontier financials for Elite Dangerous sales) more SQ42 units to new buyers, that's not even going to make a dent in their funding in terms of their monthly burn. Not to mention the fact that given that the media and gamers are literally dying to get the chance to "review" any game marked as "finished and released" by CIG, the risk that SQ42 is going to get universally panned if it's not stellar, cannot be ignored. That both SC and SQ42 share the engine, content, lore etc, makes it highly likely that unless SQ42 is a resounding and unmitigated success, any such reviews aren't going to be a major reflection on SC itself. But even so, some of the whales won't care if they only care about their SC chariots. And the elephant in the room is that SQ42 is single-player after they nerfed co-op. That alone pretty much KILLS most of the "draw" for gamers who were looking for Freelancer. So they go to the SC game - and boom, they find a mess which doesn't mimic the otherwise structured game that SQ42 probably is. Now you have a whole different problem. And guess what? Those who thinks that there aren't going to be DLC sales in the form of ships or even new mission content for SQ42, haven't been paying attention.

In the entire history of the gaming business, this CIG financial business model isn't sustainable. That's why they have ZERO incentive to release ANYTHING as final. They can continue raising money based on the promise of greatness for as long as there are gullible and happy whales willing to BELIEVE that something great is going to come from this - one day. They are wrong. And they are the reason why the project is never - ever - going to end up being what was pitched due to LACK OF FINANCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY.

Finally, I'm saying it again, it's a SCAM. All of it. You don't need to even look up the definition of a scam because in my latest blog from last week, I outlined 6 specific FACTUAL points which are attributed to that. It didn't start out as a scam of course, but that's what happens when lots of money is involved and there's no accountability (the SAME thing that The Pledge and original ToS were designed to give) for anything - by anyone involved.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 10:11:16 AM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1551 on: December 06, 2018, 01:37:21 PM »
FTR has a follow-up video

My comment


Excellent post, I went there expecting you to be inundated with replies from backers with SC space psychosis and was surprised to not see them.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1552 on: December 06, 2018, 02:30:41 PM »
Excellent post, I went there expecting you to be inundated with replies from backers with SC space psychosis and was surprised to not see them.

They're basically just ignoring me these days. I mean it's not like I've been wrong about their train-wreck :)
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1553 on: December 06, 2018, 06:52:23 PM »
They're basically just ignoring me these days. I mean it's not like I've been wrong about their train-wreck :)


You have definitely been getting it right but I clearly remember several times when you said two weeks :wink:.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 07:18:07 PM by jwh1701 »

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1554 on: December 06, 2018, 07:17:44 PM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/a3nnxg/the_hurston_dynamics_building_34_evocati/

I would tell devs just to stop flights models, gameplay and just keep stoking dreams while making fidelity fluff to keep them from thinking. Sadly the same thing happens to me with brunettes with waist long hair.

level 1
Rainwalker007
28 points ·
9 hours ago

Dear GOD the market screens just gave me chills.. i may spend my life time there just watching the fluctuating markets prices...

This is .. my little heart cant take this xD



jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1555 on: December 06, 2018, 11:59:18 PM »
Every time I see this I find it so weird and creepy, I truly do not remember ever seeing this from any other forum about games.


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/a3i8xv/praise_our_lord_and_savior_5k_uhd/

Noztra

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1556 on: December 07, 2018, 02:01:34 AM »
Anyone knows how the designers vs "engineers" are split CIG? Like how many are there of each group?

Because I am confused how they can get so many ships out so fast and they still can't get AI to walk in a straight line. At some point you would conclude that they where "done" with making new ships (I know MONEY)

So is there like 10 to 1 of designers vs engineers? Or is 100 to 1?

Judge_dolly_OG

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1557 on: December 07, 2018, 03:47:44 AM »
From that thread, this guy knows his onions.
I hope this game comes out, but I also don't care if its an epic disaster (the press coverage and community rage will be so legendary). This was a great learning experience for me in regards to not blindly throwing money at people trying to sell my own imagination back to me, especially when they go out of their way to avoid accountability.


Well at least you have received something of value from the project.

Judge_dolly_OG

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1558 on: December 07, 2018, 05:14:05 AM »
Look even more closely and you will see that they haven't even delivered the product they pitched at $3M back in NOv 2012; nor the one for which they raised $65M in Nov 2014. That - alone - is clear evidence that not only did they bite off more than they could chew, the on-going technical debt HAS to be paid for somehow. And THAT costs time AND money.

I have no skin in this game, I didn't back the original kickstarter but remember it and thinking this could be cool. At the point they got a shit ton of money there seemed to be no point in me backing, they already had well more than they had originally asked for. I still follow the project, but for the reason you have succinctly described here. As you have said before they made the wrong engine choice for what they want to build, incurring an insurmountable level of tech debt, trading short term progress in shiny ships for actual long term delivery of the project. Compounding this is the leadership of the project not being able to get a grip on requirements, letting fluff like ice cube physics get in the game instead of important stuff for a sim like a decent flight model. This complete inability to prioritise their backlog, predatory sales tactics, incompetent leadership and cultish customers who are treated like a cash cow is unlike anything else around.

Backers might say I'm a hater, that I just want to see the project fail, but that is far from the truth, I LOVE this project, it is a fascinating endeavour, just not for the reasons they would like. This is true development hell, and they have spent so long telling their customers what they want to hear that they will never be able to satisfy them even if the funds keep coming in for another 7 years.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1559 on: December 07, 2018, 06:33:56 AM »
They're basically just ignoring me these days. I mean it's not like I've been wrong about their train-wreck :)

Well that didn't last long. Eisberg showed up :emot-lol:



@eisenberg one would think that for as long as you Star Citizen super fans have been beating that bs drum, that you would be over it by now. Maybe one day you will come to learn what a  "false equivalent" is, and that no matter how you repeat something that's patently untrue, won't make it become true. You know, like the tech demo masquerading as a "game" which you all want to "will" into existence by throwing money into a fire pit.

We've done this before, so let's do it again. Pay attention, and remember that this isn't your Reddit enclave, and that most of the people who comment on FTR videos, don't come here looking for a fight or to spread bs. They respect the nature of his videos.

So, let's go...

1) Star Citizen was crowd-funded to the tune of millions (currently at $209M) of Dollars with the promise of delivering two games within 2 years. With all that money, all that time, and all those people (500 at last count), after SIX (not counting the one preceding year according to Chris) they barely have a tech demo which doesn't even have 20% of what was promised. It was never pitched, nor promoted as early access. In fact, Chris only went on the record within the past 2 years saying that he was now regarding it *like* early access. Right after he started using words like "Minimum Viable Product".

CIG has yet to ship a SINGLE game. Of ANY kind.

And that's why in my latest anniversary blog, I outlined the 6 FACTUAL reasons why it evolved into an absolute scam: http://dereksmart.com/2018/11/star-citizen-year-six/

2) Line Of Defense will be just one in a long list of games that I have funded, developed, shipped over the past three decades. It wasn't crowd-funded because, like ALL my games, I didn't need public money to fund the development.

It was released as early access via Steam in order to gauge interest, wide test certain features etc. It adhered strictly to Steam's guidelines for early access games. And I quote: https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq

"When will these games release?
Its up to the developer to determine when they are ready to 'release'. Some developers have a concrete deadline in mind, while others will get a better sense as the development of the game progresses. You should be aware that some teams will be unable to 'finish' their game. So you should only buy an Early Access game if you are excited about playing it in its current state."

Early access gamers pay for ACCESS to a game in development. There is NO guarantee that a game will either 1) be completed and released 2) have a release deadline

Normally, games would be announced, release periodic news, visual media etc, then released. Nobody gets to know anything about the development during those periods.

The above reasons are why dozens of popular early access games are currently still in that stage; and in some cases, over 5 years later. It's why Steam has never been involved in any early access drama when games get abandoned. The rules for early access, like the terms of service, refunds policy etc, are binding. Nobody forced anyone into anything. They weren't promised anything.

Those who are actually following the game's development, know precisely what's going on with it because they read the news, blogs, watch the streams that I do. etc. In fact, the latest dev blog just went live 48 hrs ago: http://lodgame.com/18-12-05-state-of-play/

The game was NEVER scheduled to be "released in 2014" as you stated. It went into Steam early access on Sept 16, 2014: http://steamspy.com/app/266620

We concluded the open beta, disabled the store page, and put it into closed beta in April 2016 while we continued working on it: http://lodgame.com/news/16-04-29-01/

Unlike Star Citizen, and given my record, I don't think anyone who bought the game has any concerns that the game won't be released at some point in time when it is ready. I don't need to keep selling it via early access because it was never about money.

We didn't find any of the 30K+ gamers who bought it, yelling on social media, on the game's Steam forum, or its official forum, that they had been scammed, want their money back etc. Star Citizen on the other hand? Well, we ALL know what's going on with that.

3) Finally, from now your deleted Reddit account, and posts elsewhere where you and your  buddies harass me because I'm saying things about Star Citizen that you don't like, I don't believe that you have a "lot" of friends. And I don't believe that you - or any of your "friends" - own a copy of LoD. You guys are notorious liars who make stuff up on the fly, over and over again. That's why you get laughed at. That's why the guys like YOU are the ones who contributed to the bad rep that the Star Citizen community has. This despite the fact that it's got thousands of backers who just want the game they paid for, and who aren't engaged in a proxy war o.b.o of CIG against dissenting voices. And THAT is why we have been winning that war, and in a few short years we've helped YOU guys have completely - and IRREVOCABLY - destroy the game and it's community reputation. And THAT is why you guys, the game, and CIG, are the laughing stock in gaming.

It's funny that you think my time on social media is any business of yours, let alone has any significance. But I can see how you would be upset; and just like you guys do on Reddit, you would want to silence and/or attack anyone saying bad things about Star Citizen. Especially someone like me. In contrast, it's truly hilarious that Chris Roberts barely has a social media presence, doesn't engage with the community peons who gave him over $200M - and he has yet to ship a SINGLE game. Of ANY kind.

Attacking me or my games, isn't going to make Star Citizen any less of a scam, nor make it a released, let alone a good game. Those are FACTS.

So please, go ahead, tell me again how LoD is a scam; I can do with the lols.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

 

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