Author Topic: Star Citizen Citizenship  (Read 1912298 times)

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1515 on: November 29, 2018, 05:21:19 PM »
Ship Review - Day 1
Ship Review - Day 2
Ship Review - Day 3
Ship Review - Day 5



Ship Review - Day 6

In the year 3000 the Arkansas-Oklahoma Port Operators Association evolved from a mere non-profit educational organization to encourage cooperation between ports, and became a premier manufacturer of weird-rear end alien spaceships. We may never know why. Probably because "Aopoa" sounded kind of alien and nobody bothered to google it before they used it. I guess they sell the ships of the mysterious and noble bird-men who are definitely not going to be a cheap yellowface stereotype, right Chris?

Also in the year 3000, a commune in the province of Frosinone in the Italian region Lazio, became home to a manufacturer of fine customized weird-rear end spaceships. "Esperia" which is definitely a weird alien name and not a place Chris visited on his yacht trip to Monaco, sells the evil icky Vanduul ships which are definitely not just reskinned Kilrathi fighters despite bearing the same names, because that would be theft of EA's intellectual property, right Chris? WINK.

Also also in the year 3000, CIG sold the Banu Merchantman, but they got fuckin' lazy with it and didn't bother to make a corporation with lore or anything. Just loving buy it, we know you don't give a poo poo.



Aopoa Nox
Price: 45 USD
Guns: More and better than the Dragonfly because that poo poo's 5 dollars cheaper
Speed: Really slow actually
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: Can't even fight

Reviewer's Thoughts: So I haven't actually bothered to ride this thing around, but I'm told that the HUD obscures even more of the player's vision than the one on the Dragonfly. That doesn't surprise me- Chris comes from the era of Wing Commander HUDS, where it was really important to obscure as much of the screen as possible so you didn't actually have to animate a whole lot at once. He never really overcame that aesthetic and half the ships in the game have dashboards that are impossibly frustrating to see over. Anyway this thing is a racer but it's a bike and it's only 5 dollars more than the Dragonfly. In Star Citizen you can pretty much judge everything by price and aesthetic. So it is likely this thing is slightly faster than the Dragonfly, shoots slightly harder, and is still a useless piece of trash. Why do bird-men need a space bike anyway?


Cockpit:

Aopoa Khartu-Al

Price: 170 USD
Guns: Only 2, haha this loving thing costs as much as a super hornet
Speed: Completely uncontrollable

Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It can explode
Reviewer's Thoughts: So when CIG started selling alien ships, they introduced the concept of the "Alien Tax." You see, alien ships are more expensive for less performance. In actual dollar terms. Because... they are rare, and exotic. No, I'm not kidding, they actually said this and backers ate it up because they are loving stupid. So here's a ship for 170 dollars, the same price as a Super Hornet. It has two guns, flies so fast that you will black out if you try to maneuver, and explodes if it so much as glances against any surface. Somehow despite the cockpit being a giant glass ball, Chris managed to get some enormous vision-obscuring struts in there to really give it the full gently caress-you-this-is-Star-Citizen experience. Mysterious birdmen love struts. I've never seen anybody fly one of these.


Esperia Blade
Price: 275 dollars oh my loving lord
Guns: 4 nasty mongrel-race guns
Speed: Real fast
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: Nope

Reviewer's Thoughts: Another victim of the alien tax, this ship costs as much as a Constellation Phoenix but it is a loving light fighter. I'm pretty sure CIG introduced this ship because they decided, at some point, that the Scythe was not fragile and small enough to be the cannon-fodder alien ship, and they needed something even more worthless. Even the lore for this thing describes it as obsolete and virtually worthless. Please give us your healthcare payment for the month if you wish to fly one.





Banu Merchantman
Price: 350 dollars
Guns: Who cares it's a trade ship
Speed: Slow
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It doesn't exist

Reviewer's Thoughts: So technically the Banu Merchantman doesn't exist in-game which would normally exclude it from my reviews, but the story here is so god drat hilarious that I had to bring it up. Alright first of all this ship was sold without a cut-out corporate entity for it, which amuses me- why drop the pretense, CIG? It was also sold without the "Alien Tax" because either they forgot or did not care at the time. But anyway it's a bulk trader, armed, crew of 3 or four- in CIG terms, 350 dollars was a steal. Also it looked kind of cool so people ate it right up. Then it became apparent that the concept artist, and the design team, did not actually know which end of the ship was the front. Sometimes it was depicted flying one way and sometimes the other. Oops! Eventually CIG settled on one way, the opposite way from the original concept and design, which pissed off half the purchasers who wanted it to be the other. I think CIG got frustrated and just shitcanned the whole design because nobody's heard a peep about it since the original sale in 2014. Four years on this thing and all people hear is once a year "Oh yeah still working on it." Suuuuuure you are. Meanwhile ships are being introduced and sold in-game today that clearly started dev less than a year ago. Obviously it's just a very complex design, lot of uh, ins and outs. Keep spending money on it. Godspeed, you backwards-flying Jew stereotype-race ship.


Esperia Scythe
Price: I'm actually not sure
Guns: Some red ones
Speed: Zippy
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: Nope

Reviewer's Thoughts: So this thing was sold once upon a time, I think possibly as a kickstarter reward for like the ludicrous tiers, or maybe as a concierge thing? I never even priced it because as I recall it was insanely overpriced (ALIEN TAX) and also just... just real bad. Like all the other alien ships it's designed to get blowed up real good by the human ships and nothing else. But don't worry, CIG spent months of their artist and modeler's time making fully realized cockpits and alien HUDs for this and every other fighter. Your pledge dollars at work.


Esperia Glaive
Price: 350 dollars
Guns: Some red ones
Speed: Modest
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: Nope

Reviewer's Thoughts: This ship is literally just the Scythe but with two wings and also it costs 350 loving dollars. Obviously this ship needed to be reserved for the elite of the elite. Somebody at CIG had the genius idea: "Hey what if we actually forced people to play the game in order to earn it." So they did! You had to win a match of Arena Commander in order to earn the right to purchase one of these. Note- not "Earn one of these." Earn the right... to pay money... for this. Anyway Arena Commander at the time was 18 or some-odd rounds of fairly tedious point and click combat and the main challenge was not crashing out of the game in the hour it took to finish. Citizens went apeshit. To think! A combat ship, locked away behind a game mode in the game they all loved but that none of them actually played! They were furious and the bitching and tears swiftly overflowed. Meanwhile, enterprising bastards such as myself went in, played an hour of Arena Commander, bought the ship and immediately turned around and sold it for a 50 buck markup. That's right- people would pay 50 extra bucks on the grey market, the day this thing was released, to not have to play the game it was made for. Explain that one to me. Anyway the ship itself kinda sucks, it's made to be a boss ship but that just means it's slightly harder to kill than the other Vanduul stuff. No missiles, couple of guns, generally pretty weak. If it were a human fighter it'd be like 100 bucks. Please pay me four times that much to not have to play your own game, Citizen.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 04:01:20 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

Backer42

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1516 on: November 29, 2018, 10:28:11 PM »
Got link?  :emot-colbert:
I started the discussion in post #8944 here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/435505-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v9?p=7211406&viewfull=1#post7211406

The fun lasted till post #9007, before the topic suddenly got diverted to instancing.  :grin:

Judge_dolly_OG

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1517 on: November 30, 2018, 03:29:54 AM »
Those ship reviews are hilarious!

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1518 on: November 30, 2018, 06:57:11 AM »
I started the discussion in post #8944 here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/435505-The-Star-Citizen-Thread-v9?p=7211406&viewfull=1#post7211406

The fun lasted till post #9007, before the topic suddenly got diverted to instancing.  :grin:

LOL

"CIG is missing an opportunity by not making a video of Women riding sandworms for their next con."

Good response:

Jumping to another system in ED takes me about 10secs. It hasn't taken longer than that since 2014 during the early betas.

It's doing a whole bunch of matchmaking and/or generating a new instance during that time, as well as pulling down the data to build the system.

All the rest of it is seamless, you can even watch npc ships approaching surface bases during the glide transition.

SC is sitting with 12gb client ram occupied in space, talking to a single server session. There isn't even a CIG dev who would describe that as "superior".

That is all sc reddit nonsense that falls apart once it gets outside the bubble.

ED is using FDev's own bespoke networking solutions and custom backend, as well as some very fast transactional database hosting. SC is using 10 year old Cryengine tech.

It's done the way they're doing it because there isn't any other way to do it with that tech - and they had neither the foresight nor the capacity to build anything resembling an mmo architecture from the start, which is why none of it works and never will.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 07:02:05 AM by jwh1701 »

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1519 on: November 30, 2018, 07:55:35 AM »
Yeah, that was an epic post.

I like how Ben Parry showed up, made a single post, didn't elaborate - then ejected. :emot-lol:
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1520 on: November 30, 2018, 01:19:31 PM »
Crazy how they find all these bugs so humorous as if they cannot fathom that this is all they have for 200m.
Thread after thread of backers laughing away, we need a skit of everyone on the titanic pointing and laughing
at the huge tear in the hull as it sinks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/a1tmnl/first_animal_bird_spotted_on_lorville/

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1521 on: November 30, 2018, 03:56:30 PM »
Ship Review - Day 1
Ship Review - Day 2
Ship Review - Day 3
Ship Review - Day 5
Ship Review - Day 6



Ship Review - Day 7

MISC is definitely not just the first acronym that popped into a hack writer's head when he was given the assignment "Come up with a corporation for all the random poo poo that doesn't belong anywhere else." In the year 3000 Space Japan will partner with the space Chinese Turtles to make a whole bunch of ships with space Chinese Turtle technology. Why didn't they partner with the space Japanese Birdmen? Don't be a loving racist, okay, that's why. Anyway some of these ships are getting to the core of what is wrong with Star Citizen so here we loving go.


MISC Reliant
Price: 65-85 USD
Guns: Probably, got to have guns on your news van
Speed: Fast? I don't know.
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: Supposedly a lot of things, none of them in-game

Reviewer's Thoughts: So by the time the Reliant was "Concepted" CIG and Chris had gone well off the rails in terms of design. No longer just a space MMO with fighters and trading, Star Citizen was an everything simulator. Variants couldn't just be good at combat, they had to introduce whole unique lifestyles, each targeted at a weird subset of the dreaming fanbase. The Reliant was sold as, no poo poo, a News Van, a Mobile Science Platform, and a general Minivan. And of course it couldn't just be like "Oh it's got a yellow paintjob and we made a twitch deal." Chris had to promise an "Enhanced imaging sub-suite" and envision a whole range of news-reporter gameplay, none of which had previously been designed or integrated into the game. Scope creep began to turn into a rapid unplanned scope disassembly. There is no scope anymore- the scope is literally everything. This ship, of course, has only been released as the base variant because the extras make no sense and cannot be implemented in a sane universe to any degree of buyer's satisfaction, so they never will be. The base variant is another crappy low-cost starter ship. I'm sure it works fine for the purpose but it is functionally no different from the Avenger or Mustang or Aurora.


with strut:


without strut:


MISC Freelancer
Price: 110-165 USD
Guns: 4 very big guns
Speed: Moderate
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: Yeah

Reviewer's Thoughts: Star Citizen's price-creep has given it a real problem. Namely, that most of the original ships are way more effective for their prices than ships these days. The Freelancer, for example, is a 3-man trade ship with 4 size 3, and 2 size 1 guns. It's reasonably maneuverable and has decent shields. This makes it an unbelievably effective combat ship, in many cases better than ships two to three times more expensive than it. If it were sold today it'd probably cost 250 dollars, but it is grandfathered in at the original price. I mean it's still insanely overpriced, don't get me wrong- but it is highly effective in that price range compared to poo poo like the news van. Anyway, they made a shitload of variants for this thing and they mostly make sense in that they all trade one aspect to enhance another- better cargo, better jump range, better combat- but they're all kind of boring and I won't talk about them here. This is a good ship and, alongside the Cutlass, probably would be my go-to for general purpose "loving around" ships if I could loving afford one. It can't be all good, though- CIG royally hosed up the interior design on this thing when they first released it. They decided that the canopy needed a strut literally right in the center of the pilot's vision. Naturally this got a ton of flak, and they eventually fixed it in one of the seven hundred inevitable redesigns that they seem to have to do on every ship.


MISC Razor
Price: 145 USD
Guns: Oh I'm sure it has some
Speed: Super duper fast
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It can race!

Reviewer's Thoughts: Another example of scope explosion. So CIG introduced a race mode early on in the game's conception. I don't know why, nobody was really clamoring for Formula 1 in their fleet combat sim, but after coming back from Monaco Chris seemed to think it was very important to include for some reason. So they started selling race ships. First it was just a variant of the 300i, but faster! Then they sold a dedicated race-only ship, the M50. Naturally racing wouldn't be very exciting if there was only one ship, so they sold another- the Razor, and it is strictly faster than the M50 so I guess gently caress you if you bought the earlier ship. As for the races themselves- well, there's only one track, nobody plays that mode, and it has never been updated or changed in any meaningful way. It takes about 2 minutes to complete a race and mostly involves instantly rotating your ship at the next ring and just gunning it. To alleviate this tedium, CIG introduced "Scramble Races" in-game, but they are randomly mixed between space races and ground races, and hey guess what you can't haul ground vehicles in one of these, so pretty much guaranteed you will never get the race you want. Also the actual race itself is broken. It is pretty clearly the lowest possible priority. This is because racing in a fleet combat sim is stupid, and everybody on the dev team knows it except for Chris.


MISC Prospector
Price: 155 USD
Guns: It has rock guns
Speed: Surprisingly fast
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It can mine!

Reviewer's Thoughts: Much like racing, mining in Star Citizen is a hosed up mess. Early on mining was introduced as a pillar of economic activity in the game's concept, because Eve has it, and other MMO's have it, and Elite has it, and it's just kind of a staple of spaceman space adventures in general. How else are you going to get minerals in the year 3000 if an intrepid commando doesn't pilot his faster-than-light ship up to a big asteroid and shoot some chunks off of it? Robots? Don't make me laugh. Anyway illogic of mining in a post-scarcity economy aside, Chris had grand plans for mining. You'd fly up to the rocks and scan them by planting sensors on them and detonating charges. One player would control the cutting lasers, another would handle the tractor beam, another would run the ore processor, because those all sound like exciting jobs that people will spend hundreds of hours doing. They sold a great big-rear end ship for like 500 dollars based on this concept. Then a couple years went by, and they sold (and immediately released) this one. It doesn't have sensors to place. It doesn't have explosives to detonate. It doesn't have a tractor beam or an ore processor. It has a single laser, and you mine by firing it into the rock, exactly like every other space game. Critically, though, this ship is the only thing in the game that can mine. And it costs 155 dollars. CIG took the whole mining mechanic, reduced it to the same laser-on-rock as every other game, and then sold it to backers for triple the price of a full and complete AAA game. loving... Star Citizen, man. Of course if you point out to backers that this ship is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of mining introduced and sold along with the great big frigate-sized ship, they will tell you that "It's tier 0! They will improve it!" They won't improve it. What they're going to do is come up with a completely different type of mining, that only the big ship can do, and the type of mining that the Prospector can do will always remain exactly as it is now. That's right- they are going to have to start implementing whole aspects of the game entirely for one ship or another, because they loving sold them already and didn't think about crossover.


MISC Hull-C
Price: 100-1000 USD depending on hull size
Guns: Oh I'm sure it has a turret
Speed: Doesn't exist
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It can trade!

Reviewer's Thoughts: Here is another entirely single-serving ship design. It is the trader, it is made to trade. Chris watched the "Heavy Metal Queen" episode of cowboy bebop and decided he wanted space trucking. So they made and sold a space truck and, hilariously, copy-pasted it four more times. That's right, you can buy this thing in A, B, C, D, or E variants, scaling from a tiny little starter up to a carrier-sized monstrosity. It's just the same hull shape at different sizes. Naturally they didn't think this through at all, and the interiors and exteriors are going to have to be completely redesigned across all 5 ships because poo poo like windows and doors absolutely will not scale that way, but those are problems for future Chris! Also, the way this ship is designed makes it completely incompatible with every single landing pad in the game- you literally could not land this ship, if it gets loaded up with boxes the way that the concepts indicate. They have introduced no mechanic or landing pad that would fix this, to my knowledge. They also haven't released any of these ships! What a coincidence! If they ever do they will have to have some kind of like docking collar to docking collar spacedock implemented at every station, which... is never going to happen. Future Chris is gonna have a lot of scrambling to do.


MISC Starfarer
Price: 295 USD
Guns: Bunch of useless turrets
Speed: Slowest thing in the game
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It can get shot

Reviewer's Thoughts: Boy I'm getting tired of reviewing all these single-mechanic ships that were sold without any thought being given to the mechanic that was attached to them. Time to kick back and review a... space fuel tanker, you say? For a game that doesn't... doesn't actually require fuel for general flight? And also has no refueling mechanics? Okay. Sure, gently caress it. So this is the Starfarer, the space refueling tanker that every aspiring fleet commander needs to have in his or her (but let's be real, his) hangar! Your fleet won't get anywhere (there's nowhere to go) without one of these to refuel (you can't refuel) it! Just the thought of running dry (there is no fuel) has left many fighter pilots (people who bought fighters) in a cold sweat (you can't sweat either). Buy a Starfarer and ensure you never run out of gas again! So yeah. There are two types of fuel in Star Citizen and neither is required for flight- there is boost fuel, which runs your afterburners, and there is quantum fuel, which lets you jump around. The Starfarer can refuel neither of these, because refueling isn't a thing that actually exists in game. Even if it could, it wouldn't be necessary because every station and landing platform in the game can refuel and they are all easily reachable. But the Starfarer sure does exist in game! What do you do with it? loving nothing! It is a slow fat pig with no mechanics attached to it, that exists only because they sold it at one point and can't back out of that deal. Behold the future of all of your single-mechanic spaceships.


MISC Endeavor
Price: 500-1000 USD
Guns: who cares
Speed: doesn't exist
Can It Do Anything Other Than Fight: It can destroy your game design

Reviewer's Thoughts: Ah the capstone. The MISC endeavor. At the point this was sold CIG had gone completely "gently caress It" and was just shoveling poo poo out the airlock and into backer's hands as fast as possible. This is a science ship! A farming ship! It's got a biodome! It's got a telescope array! It's got a supercollider! It's got a Research Pod and a Science Pod which are two distinct different things! It's got a medical bay! It's got a landing bay! We literally sold each of these modules on its own, for real cash, so we can't just drop them later- and we have no idea how we're going to implement any of them! It's a capital ship with like 8 distinct game mechanics tied to it, none of which we thought through in the slightest! Buy it NOW RIGHT NOW! We'll figure out how space farming works and why you'd even want to do it later. gently caress you, Future Chris! Eat all of my poo poo, presented in the form of this ship which could be three complete self-contained games in itself, signed Present Chris!


Did you think I was kidding about the telescope array?


Or the particle collider?


Surely the farm pods though right?

Huh. So, at this point anyone paying attention to CIG has to come to one of two inescapable conclusions. Either they have scope creeped themselves into an impossible situation, where there is no way they are going to release anything that even comes close to the promised gameplay, and what they actually put out will be like "Telescope array: Gives a +10% buff to your research speed!" Or, they never intended to actually implement any of the stuff I have mentioned in this line of ships: multi-crew mining, ship refueling, space science, news reporting- and are literally just selling ships based off a list they made at one point of "Things to do in space." MISC, more than any other company and ship set in the game, exemplifies why Star Citizen will never be a complete product. It can't be. No game could contain all of this and not just be reality plus spaceships. They aren't selling structured pieces of a fun design that they already have in their heads here. They're just throwing everything at the wall and, whether it sticks or not, oops they already sold it and now they have to deliver. They can't deliver. Do not buy these ships.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 04:02:20 PM by dsmart »
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

David-2

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1522 on: November 30, 2018, 08:37:20 PM »
This ship series is absolutely invaluable.  (And absolutely hilarious.)  I've been reading those theory-crafting reddit posts for some time and knew it was just imaginary poo-poo - completely fantasy-land - but to read these ship descriptions which explains the "promises" Chris was making about future gameplay brings it all together.

Really, no matter what they're paying the lore guys at CIG, they're not paying them enough.  I mean, what would it take to get you to go to work each day and write more and more horrible ad copy ("back story") to sucker people into buying these pixels?   What kind of person would you have to be to do that month on end without shooting yourself in the head?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 08:40:12 PM by David-2 »

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1523 on: November 30, 2018, 09:01:09 PM »
Sneak peak at trading, guys are already in fantasy mode, plus jpg trading is in also.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/a1yjon/sneak_peak_trading_and_commodities_market/

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 09:02:42 PM by jwh1701 »

Judge_dolly_OG

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1524 on: December 01, 2018, 12:28:00 AM »
Sneak peak at trading, guys are already in fantasy mode, plus jpg trading is in also.

Quote
I keep hoping that SC will have all the amazing intricacies of Eve, but without all the boring gameplay, lol.

Seems like they are well on their way to not having ANY gameplay, Citizen.

90% MPC driven according to CIG, so dull as anything in game economy that doesn't react to anything, going by their other NPCs then.


DemonInvestor

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1525 on: December 01, 2018, 02:12:24 AM »
Sneak peak at trading, guys are already in fantasy mode, plus jpg trading is in also.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/a1yjon/sneak_peak_trading_and_commodities_market/



Soooo it's basically just a minigame not bound towards actual resource production of player and CIG still isn't really doing a production chain, now are they? Though i guess stock market mini games are more popular with your average SC fanbois.

dsmart

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1526 on: December 01, 2018, 04:51:13 AM »
Soooo it's basically just a minigame not bound towards actual resource production of player and CIG still isn't really doing a production chain, now are they? Though i guess stock market mini games are more popular with your average SC fanbois.

Basically - yes.

Also, notice how there's no trading in the 2019 roadmap yet.
Star Citizen isn't a game. It's a TV show about a bunch of characters making a game. It's basically "This is Spinal Tap" - except people think the band is real.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1527 on: December 01, 2018, 09:39:49 AM »
Basically - yes.

Also, notice how there's no trading in the 2019 roadmap yet.

I just checked the thread this morning and no surprise they are still lost in wonderland. This jpg of trading is just like everything they have always done to keep the funding tracker going. It still amazes that they fall for things that are not even on a roadmap, like sq42, hullc, sandworms etc.

jwh1701

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1528 on: December 01, 2018, 05:43:28 PM »

DemonInvestor

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Re: Star Citizen - The Citizenship
« Reply #1529 on: December 01, 2018, 07:13:05 PM »
Basically - yes.

Also, notice how there's no trading in the 2019 roadmap yet.

Well... i mean if i was Chris, i also wouldn't know what to do with ingame trading, if i actually wanted them to pay me actual dollars to get something ingame. So sure it would be quite far ahead on my totally real roadmap. Hmm guess we'll see dolly cart sales before any actual trading implementation.

 

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