Star Citizen Citizenship

[Kastenbrust]

Based on the total amount taken in by CIG, I don't think the amounts refunded are that significant. Unless of course it totaled 100 million. More significant are the number of accounts that have been refunded. Refunds seem to be on the rise lately(could be wrong)...

There's actually been quite a shocking amount of refunds just in total amounts, we've calculated it's into the multiple millions now, although as you say nowhere near $100 million. But remember CIG is constantly spending cash and even needs bank loans to keep going, so refunds will hurt them a lot like a wounded animal haemorrhaging blood. If they have a negative cash flow it makes the business look terrible to prospective investors or for future loans, it's what kills most businesses.  :black101:

Also on your other point, the number of refunds is also turning exponential and reaching a "critical mass". The main Star Citizen refund subreddit has grown nearly 50% in a couple of months and adding hundreds of people almost every other week now. After Gamescom we expected things to quieten down, but the opposite has happened and refunds are speeding up still!! Goodness knows what's going to happen after Citizencon but I expect an armageddon.  :supaburn:

[StanTheMan]

Based on the total amount taken in by CIG, I don't think the amounts refunded are that significant. Unless of course it totaled 100 million. More significant are the number of accounts that have been refunded. Refunds seem to be on the rise lately(could be wrong)...

There's actually been quite a shocking amount of refunds just in total amounts, we've calculated it's into the multiple millions now, although as you say nowhere near $100 million. But remember CIG is constantly spending cash and even needs bank loans to keep going, so refunds will hurt them a lot like a wounded animal haemorrhaging blood. If they have a negative cash flow it makes the business look terrible to prospective investors or for future loans, it's what kills most businesses.  :black101:

Also on your other point, the number of refunds is also turning exponential and reaching a "critical mass". The main Star Citizen refund subreddit has grown nearly 50% in a couple of months and adding hundreds of people almost every other week now. After Gamescom we expected things to quieten down, but the opposite has happened and refunds are speeding up still!! Goodness knows what's going to happen after Citizencon but I expect an armageddon.  :supaburn:

Yes Reddit SC refunds has exploded this month.

[ecg]

Based on the total amount taken in by CIG, I don't think the amounts refunded are that significant. Unless of course it totaled 100 million. More significant are the number of accounts that have been refunded. Refunds seem to be on the rise lately(could be wrong)...

There's actually been quite a shocking amount of refunds just in total amounts, we've calculated it's into the multiple millions now, although as you say nowhere near $100 million. But remember CIG is constantly spending cash and even needs bank loans to keep going, so refunds will hurt them a lot like a wounded animal haemorrhaging blood. If they have a negative cash flow it makes the business look terrible to prospective investors or for future loans, it's what kills most businesses.  :black101:

Also on your other point, the number of refunds is also turning exponential and reaching a "critical mass". The main Star Citizen refund subreddit has grown nearly 50% in a couple of months and adding hundreds of people almost every other week now. After Gamescom we expected things to quieten down, but the opposite has happened and refunds are speeding up still!! Goodness knows what's going to happen after Citizencon but I expect an armageddon.  :supaburn:

and this would jive with the move to EA and a change in TOS  to remove refunds.

[Moeis]

Based on the total amount taken in by CIG, I don't think the amounts refunded are that significant. Unless of course it totaled 100 million. More significant are the number of accounts that have been refunded. Refunds seem to be on the rise lately(could be wrong)...

There's actually been quite a shocking amount of refunds just in total amounts, we've calculated it's into the multiple millions now, although as you say nowhere near $100 million. But remember CIG is constantly spending cash and even needs bank loans to keep going, so refunds will hurt them a lot like a wounded animal haemorrhaging blood. If they have a negative cash flow it makes the business look terrible to prospective investors or for future loans, it's what kills most businesses.  :black101:

Also on your other point, the number of refunds is also turning exponential and reaching a "critical mass". The main Star Citizen refund subreddit has grown nearly 50% in a couple of months and adding hundreds of people almost every other week now. After Gamescom we expected things to quieten down, but the opposite has happened and refunds are speeding up still!! Goodness knows what's going to happen after Citizencon but I expect an armageddon.  :supaburn:

How many multiple millions and how did you come up with this calculation?

[the_wolfmann]

How many multiple millions and how did you come up with this calculation?

Ever heard of guesstimating? Why don't you ask CIG for the financial numbers? Refunds ought to be one of them. Oh right... you can't because of the TOS changes.

You realise that if this information was public it would destroy the project then and there? You don't!?

Each passing day you turn more and more into ConfusedMonkeh/Serendipity. There are 2 possible explanations: you are an alt, or you're turning into a close copy. The latter option is very scary as it means we'll never get a sane SC defender around here. Just driveling fools that demand justification of red flags that are so easily recognizable that you have to be truly antismart to miss.

[Moeis]

How many multiple millions and how did you come up with this calculation?

Ever heard of guesstimating? Why don't you ask CIG for the financial numbers? Refunds ought to be one of them. Oh right... you can't because of the TOS changes.

You realise that if this information was public it would destroy the project then and there? You don't!?

Each passing day you turn more and more into ConfusedMonkeh/Serendipity. There are 2 possible explanations: you are an alt, or you're turning into a close copy. The latter option is very scary as it means we'll never get a sane SC defender around here. Just driveling fools that demand justification of red flags that are so easily recognizable that you have to be truly antismart to miss.

Sheesh you people are obsessed with thinking I might be this serendepity guy.

he said they calculated it, I asked them how they came to this calculation, not exactly the same thing as a guesstimate.  If it was just a guess, then he should have just said they were taking a guess.

Lets see if you have paid attention, what verification have I asked for on red flags?
Cause I really do not think you actually read vast majority of my posts.

[the_wolfmann]

Any calculation done without full financial papers provided by CIG and their shell companies can only be a well-educated guess. It can be inferred by the sum of confirmed and disclosed refund amounts on reddit. This will establish a minimum but the maximum cannot be extrapolated as we don't know how many people refunded in the "dark".

You failed to notice that the last sentence was not about you. It's up to you to stay that way.

[nightfire]

For shits n' giggles I ran a forensic text analysis against the pages of text on all three profiles

Out of nerdy interest, which software did you use?

[nightfire]

Three Star Citizen whales just refunded three Completionist packages to the tune of $45K

And once again someone checked whether the funding tracker decreased… which it did not. So much for that recurring debate – if it doesn’t move to the tune of $45k, then Q.E.D.

[dsmart]

Three Star Citizen whales just refunded three Completionist packages to the tune of $45K

And once again someone checked whether the funding tracker decreased… which it did not. So much for that recurring debate – if it doesn’t move to the tune of $45k, then Q.E.D.

Yeah, we checked, but we already knew that refunds are never taken into account anyway, so that was no surprise.

The issue here is that, just like a Ponzi scheme, as they're using new money to refund old, eventually it will become unsustainable. And anyone who comes up with math that points to "it's a drop in the bucket compared to how much they've raised", is a fucking moron, because the money raised is being spent. It's not sitting in a bank account.

That's precisely why they're considering changing to Early Access. And that only makes sense in terms of refusing refunds after the fact because even in EA, you still have the various phases of development (alpha, beta, release candidate etc). So the only plausible reason they would have for now going with the EA moniker is to introduce a new ToS which has more stricter terms for refunds. Problem is, if they do that, they run the huge risk of triggering a refund cascade for all but the most devout backers.

[Orgetorix]

Each passing day you turn more and more into ConfusedMonkeh/Serendipity. There are 2 possible explanations: you are an alt, or you're turning into a close copy. The latter option is very scary as it means we'll never get a sane SC defender around here. Just driveling fools that demand justification of red flags that are so easily recognizable that you have to be truly antismart to miss.

Now you see why I asked him if he was purposefully trying to be obtuse in the E.L.E. thread. I meant that as a legitimate question, not an ad hominem.

To me, everyone single one of Moeis's posts smack of willful ignorance, and circular reasoning. He hasn't really engaged in clubbing the strawman yet, so paid troll isn't earning his keep, if that's what he really is. I'm not saying that he is, but in this day and age of the interwebs, that possibility can't be overlooked.

The question still stands Moeis,

[dsmart]

In a move to give voice to abusive Star Citizen backers who shout down dissenters, Spectrum now has a karma system

[Motto]

At least there they made it to build 3.6 

You can tweet that. CIG launches Alpha build 3.6 (for their echo chamber Spectrum)  :dance:

[dsmart]

At least there they made it to build 3.6 

You can tweet that. CIG launches Alpha build 3.6 (for their echo chamber Spectrum)  :dance:

Man, you just love to see those /r/ds twerps get all mad and start yelling at me.  :lol: :supaburn:

[Motto]

I just don't have Twitter, nor am I going to. And you seem to be doing alright there. Besides, the joke itself is worth it. You can always defend yourself that you sometimes make fun of CIG. It's not all business  :smuggo: